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occom
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404
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 Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: How many hours on a 582 |
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I'm getting closer to flying my Model IV. I've been looking at alternative engines but I'll fly it first on the existing one. It occurred to me after reading some comments and websites that SOME folks are flying their 582's far beyond the recommended 300 hours before replacing the cranks.
That got me to wondering just how far it's practical. MY engine has 150 and I'll make it poke along a while longer. I'm curious to know how far they'll go with just decarb and checking on schedule. I'd like to know how other owners are making out. Please email me privately at occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca (occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca) as there's folks here who don't/won't own 2 strokes.
Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582
do not archive
[quote][b]
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GONER752(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: How many hours on a 582 |
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All,
Actually I would prefer to see any opinions/experience, anecdotal or otherwise, on this topic posted here, as I also run a 582.
Thanks,
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: How many hours on a 582 |
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On Jul 24, 2007, at 4:12 AM, GONER752(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Actually I would prefer to see any opinions/experience, anecdotal or
otherwise, on this topic posted here, as I also run a 582.
|
Dave and Greg, here is my story. I don't know if it's a good one or an
example to follow; you'll take your own conclusion.
When I bought my Kitfox 3 with a 582, five years ago, the engine had
170 hours and was running fine. But this was an engine from 1991 and
Rotax recommended to change the old and weaker crankshaft at 150 hours.
When asking what it would cost, the Rotax agent in Sweden told me that
replacing the shaft was as expensive as buying a new engine. My
inspector made it clear that I had to follow all Rotax bulletins.
Basically, I had bought an aircraft without engine.
After a few discussions, some of which on this valuable and respectable
list, I went to buy a Conrod Clearance Tester. You put it in your
cylinder and measure how much slack there is in the conrod. The idea
is: a crankshaft doesn't fail without suffering first excessive wear.
As your engine gets older, you check and plot the clearance and if you
see a sudden increase in it, you know something is about to happen.
Checking both cylinders takes only ten minutes and I used to do that
every five hours.
At 290 hours, I sold my 582 and bought a Jabiru 2200. I believe my old
engine flew to about 400 hours when the new owner forgot the coolant
cap, one day, and damaged the engine. Otherwise it might have gone
maybe 600 hours. I don't see why a well maintained 582 shouldn't live
that long.
Anyway, my "method" was to purchase a Conrod Clearance Tester from here:
http://www.skydrive.co.uk/sd_to_ou.asp
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:50 am Post subject: How many hours on a 582 |
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Greg, hopefully the anecdotal you will take with a grain of salt. However, my 1994 vintage model II with old B-box went just shy of 400 hours before I sold it to a gentleman who put another 150 on it before it was sold and finally over hauled. As I understand, it currently resides down in Mexico somewhere still flying with the same engine. During my tenure with it, other than a cracked flywheel that was replaced with an improved version (discovered while still on the ground), the engine never failed. I never even had the head off of it. IMO the key is to spend the time to understand how 2 strokes work, keep the prop pitched correctly, and keep a stock of main jets handy, and except for landing, always idle above 2k. The first thing I had to change was the idle jet to a leaner one that smoothed out the idle considerably. They're good engines. By their nature, they just need a little bit of extra care to keep them at peak efficiency.
Deke Morisse
N148DM
S5/Soob/CAP
NE Michigan
[quote] All,
Actually I would prefer to see any opinions/experience, anecdotal or otherwise, on this topic posted here, as I also run a 582.
Thanks,
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive
[b]
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Mark.Napier(at)sciatl.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: How many hours on a 582 |
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I bought my KF III, N246DR, that had been sitting ~5 years. It has a
582 model 90 with the older crank. After going through the logs and
trying to work out times from an incorrectly installed hour-meter I came
up with ~180 hours on the engine. After talking with several shops I
decided to swap out the crank for a new one. I did all the work on the
motor and replaced all the seals and all the rubber and the total came
to around $1400 about 2 years ago. The inside of the motor looked
perfect and I didn't do anything with the pistons and cylinders other
than a good de-carbon.
Over the course of about a year I put over 180 hours on the engine. I
worked out how to make the hour-meter to work properly with my charging
system so the running time is accurate. I've been using a variation on
the HAC-Man system and it works well.
I got fairly bold with the plane and put a good deal of cross country on
it getting Avgas when I had to. The last trip was over 17 hours with
most of that running Avgas. When I got back from that trip I noticed
that the motor was slower to start and seemed to lack some power. When
I started looking I noticed that the exhaust looked like it had been
powder coated white inside. My EGT's read low because the probes were
coated thickly as well. The plugs had thick white deposits. As I went
into the top end everything was coated and the rings were stuck and the
cylinder walls scratched.
When I called South Mississippi and asked he described the problem
before I could finish. Basically lead fouling. Pennsoil doesn't mix
too well with Avgas. Supposedly there are some other oils that will do
a little better but the motor really wasn't designed to deal with a
leaded fuel.
So I bought I good hone on Ebay. When I cleaned the bores they were
just beyond the wear limits. I put in Seadoo 580 pistons. The stock
size is ~4 thousands larger than the 582. That is smaller than a 1st
oversize which is 10 thousands over.
FWIW, I'm buying a used HKS engine with a 3.47 reduction. I'm pretty
sure the plane will lose some performance both in climb and cruise. I
currently cruise around 85 mph and can hit vne of 100 mph at full
throttle. However, the fuel burn will drop from 6gph to about 3.4gph.
At 50 mph it should be able to stay up on less than 2gph. It will be
spinning a larger prop much slower and will be much quieter. Should be
pretty impressive from the ground since it is already fairly quiet with
the 582.
I figure the cost to run the 582 is close to $30 per hour figuring all
the gas and maintenance. The HKS is closer to $12.
Now my plane has a 1050 lb gross weight. It is already somewhat
border-line for the HKS. I don't think the 1200 model IV would be a
good match.
FWIW,
Mark Napier
Time: 12:11:22 AM PST US
From: Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no>
Subject: Re: How many hours on a 582
On Jul 24, 2007, at 4:12 AM, GONER752(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Actually I would prefer to see any opinions/experience, anecdotal or
otherwise,on this topic posted here, as I also run a 582.
|
Dave and Greg, here is my story. I don't know if it's a good one or an
example to follow; you'll take your own conclusion.
When I bought my Kitfox 3 with a 582, five years ago, the engine had
170 hours and was running fine. But this was an engine from 1991 and
Rotax recommended to change the old and weaker crankshaft at 150 hours.
When asking what it would cost, the Rotax agent in Sweden told me that
replacing the shaft was as expensive as buying a new engine. My
inspector made it clear that I had to follow all Rotax bulletins.
Basically, I had bought an aircraft without engine.
After a few discussions, some of which on this valuable and respectable
list, I went to buy a Conrod Clearance Tester. You put it in your
cylinder and measure how much slack there is in the conrod. The idea
is: a crankshaft doesn't fail without suffering first excessive wear.
As your engine gets older, you check and plot the clearance and if you
see a sudden increase in it, you know something is about to happen.
Checking both cylinders takes only ten minutes and I used to do that
every five hours.
At 290 hours, I sold my 582 and bought a Jabiru 2200. I believe my old
engine flew to about 400 hours when the new owner forgot the coolant
cap, one day, and damaged the engine. Otherwise it might have gone
maybe 600 hours. I don't see why a well maintained 582 shouldn't live
that long.
Anyway, my "method" was to purchase a Conrod Clearance Tester from here:
http://www.skydrive.co.uk/sd_to_ou.asp
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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kitfoxmike
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: Re: How many hours on a 582 |
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I know somebody that has a 582, what he does is have a 582 in standby, at 300 hrs he switches motors. He says that they're always needing attention at 300. How far can they go after the 300, until they blow of course. I think if I had a 2 stroke in my fox I would also have a BRS. Just my opinion, you can delete this message if you so desire.
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akflyer
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: Re: How many hours on a 582 |
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You can call Bud Gish at Bud's Ultralights (at) 907-333-2148 or email him at bgish(at)alaska.net
He can tell you how many hours they have been running them as long as you use the inflight mixture and keep the EGTs below 1150....
I know of guys flying them 1500+ hours on the same crank.. I also know a guy that has had 5 engine outs and two totaled aircraft because he cant understand how a 2 stroke works and how to keep it alive...
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_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die.... |
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