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FamilyGage(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: Beware

Knowing that our Yak site is designed to share technical information,  parts, events, etc.; I have hesitated to poach this subject.

 Almost a year ago I contracted with Gulf Coast Avionics to do a complete  avionics upgrade on my Yak-52W.  The job was to take two or three weeks to  complete.  Over four months later the conversion was still not  completed.

 When I did pick her up, oops, no brakes.  The main hydrolytic line  from the reservoir was torn off of the front rudder pedal.  They would not  repair the line, and if it were not for Craig Payne who found an A/P, the plane  would still be in the back of their hangar.

 On the trip home neither of the new com's would work.  As well as the  new audio panel, VOR-ILS were also inoperative.

 I have written letters, made telephone calls for many months, and Gulf  Coast will not respond.  Craig does not know any aviation attorneys in  Lakeland.

 Being an AOPA member since 1962, and paying extra for their so call "Legal  Insurance", I contacted them.  They gave me three names in the Daytona  Beach area.  None of the three had ANY interest in my problem since it was  not a multimillion dollar case.  Well, so much for AOPA insurance  protection.

 All that I have ever asked of Gulf Coast Avionics is to have avionics that  actually work!

 My understanding is that Pacific Coast Avionics is a part of this same  company.

  

 If anyone has any suggestions, I am open.  Just beware, because a  signed contract means nothing once you have paid their bill.

  

 Ray Gage



Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:52 am Post subject: Beware

Ray,

 Sorry to hear of your problems with Gulf Coast  Avionics.  I am going to share your problem with a gentleman who is a FL  attorney and fellow aviator who may be able to help.

  

 That being said, if you are willing to consider another  avionics shop that does outstanding work and is located in Columbus, GA., Stark  Avionics, (their hangar and shop alone are quite impressive), I would be happy  to explain your problem to John Stark and see if he would be willing to work on  your airplane.

  

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

FamilyGage(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: Beware

Dennis:

  

 You are a good friend, and greatly appreciated!

  

 Columbus is a little too far for me to travel.  There are several  shops within our area that can does the work.

  

 I just think that they had my plane for months, I had made several trips to  Lakeland; and that I was stupid enough and trusting enough to pay their fee in  full before I had checked out their installation.

  

 And frankly I am pissed and want to demand that they fulfill their  contractual agreement.

  

 Thank you again, and would be pleased for an attorney referral.

  

 Your friend,

 Ray



Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

stanfrench(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: Beware

It would seem to me that the culprit  has some kind of a license issued by the FAA or whatever Licensing body handles  avionic and radio installations in aircraft.   I would go straight  there and advise of the emergency you incurred in flight as a result of  inoperative radios installed by the culprit...restitution may be only an agency  away

 Stan 

 [quote]   ---

flushjohnson(at)charter.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: Beware

This is exactly why you don't pay the bill until every thing is completed.  You should not have taken possestion until you were satisfied. Flying the  air plane away from the field constitutes acceptance. I am not taking the shops  side, this is advise to every body. This is true for all services  rendered.

 [quote]   ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: Beware

Ray,  

Talked with the JAG (also a district judge) at drill today about this. He does not know the limit for small claims in Fl. In Al it is $3000. So saying that, you need to figure up your loses/cost and take it to small claims court. He feels from just reading your email that would get a judgement against Gulf Coast. Now whether you collect on that after it awarded is another question.  

Otherwise, he guesses you could add the cost of your mental anguish and suffering from the inconvenience of not having your plane for 4 months along with the cost of repairing all this mess to determine the value of your lawsuit. After all, if a pair of pants are worth $54 million, surely you could get  something for your trouble. Small claims is probably your answer.  

Doc  

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese

 Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:52 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Beware  

  

  

     

Ray,  

    

Sorry to hear of your problems with Gulf Coast Avionics.  I am going to share your problem with a gentleman who is a FL attorney and fellow aviator who may be able to help.  

    

   

    

That being said, if you are willing to consider another avionics shop that does outstanding work and is located in Columbus, GA., Stark Avionics, (their hangar and shop alone are quite impressive), I would be happy to explain your problem to John Stark and see if he would be willing to work on your airplane.  

    

   

    

Dennis  

    

   

  [quote]    

---

cliff(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: Beware

I have to admit....this is one of times when I'm probably better off 

keeping my big yap shut....*However*, this is a classic example of how 

one person's bad experience can lead to real lost revenues for a business.



I don't deal with Gulf Coast Avionics other than purchasing a radio from 

them every now and then and have no experience with the competence of 

their work but there is always two sides of the story.



Shop managers don't go through the effort blocking in aircraft without a 

reasonable cause.



I contacted Brad at Gulf Coast to give him the opportunity to provide a 

different angle.



These types of posts are always discouraging because in the end no one 

other than Ray & Brad truly knows the real story.

A lot of good hearted people will put effort into a fight where neither 

will come out as the better person.



As many of you have experienced, my shop is not the timeliest and we 

certainly don't get all of the bugs wiped off the wings, but we do right 

by our customers to the best of our ability. 



I guess I'm fortunate not to have customers publicly bad mouthing us.

I certainly don't publicly bad mouth the people who've done us wrong.



Best regards,

Cliff



FamilyGage(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Knowing that our Yak site is designed to share technical information, 

 parts, events, etc.; I have hesitated to poach this subject.

 Almost a year ago I contracted with Gulf Coast Avionics to do a 

 complete avionics upgrade on my Yak-52W.  The job was to take two or 

 three weeks to complete.  Over four months later the conversion was 

 still not completed.

 When I did pick her up, oops, no brakes.  The main hydrolytic line 

 from the reservoir was torn off of the front rudder pedal.  They would 

 not repair the line, and if it were not for Craig Payne who found an 

 A/P, the plane would still be in the back of their hangar.

 On the trip home neither of the new com's would work.  As well as the 

 new audio panel, VOR-ILS were also inoperative.

 I have written letters, made telephone calls for many months, and Gulf 

 Coast will not respond.  Craig does not know any aviation attorneys in 

 Lakeland.

 Being an AOPA member since 1962, and paying extra for their so call 

 "Legal Insurance", I contacted them.  They gave me three names in the 

 Daytona Beach area.  None of the three had ANY interest in my problem 

 since it was not a multimillion dollar case.  Well, so much for AOPA 

 insurance protection.

 All that I have ever asked of Gulf Coast Avionics is to have avionics 

 that actually work!

 My understanding is that Pacific Coast Avionics is a part of this same 

 company.

  

 If anyone has any suggestions, I am open.  Just beware, because a 

 signed contract means nothing once you have paid their bill.

  

 Ray Gage



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com 

 <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.



*

*

netmaster15(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: Beware

CLIFF,   You have done us all a favor by contacting Brad at Gulf Coast and by reminding us that there are two sides to every story. Good job!  Now, please finish the job and inform us as to Gulf Coast's  side of the story; inquiring minds want to know "THE REST OF THE STORY" so that we might be guided in our future purchases and plans. 

Thanks for your effort; Best Regards. 

Cliff Umscheid, YAK 50 



-- Cliff Coy <cliff(at)gesoco.com> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: Cliff Coy <cliff(at)gesoco.com>



I have to admit....this is one of times when I'm probably better off ;Best Regards

keeping my big yap shut....*However*, this is a classic example of how 

one person's bad experience can lead to real lost revenues for a business.



I don't deal with Gulf Coast Avionics other than purchasing a radio from 

them every now and then and have no experience with the competence of 

their work but there is always two sides of the story.



Shop managers don't go through the effort blocking in aircraft without a 

reasonable cause.



I contacted Brad at Gulf Coast to give him the opportunity to provide a 

different angle.



These types of posts are always discouraging because in the end no one 

other than Ray & Brad truly knows the real story.

A lot of good hearted people will put effort into a fight where neither 

will come out as the better person.



As many of you have experienced, my shop is not the timeliest and we 

certainly don't get all of the bugs wiped off the wings, but we do right 

by our customers to the best of our ability. 



I guess I'm fortunate not to have customers publicly bad mouthing us.

I certainly don't publicly bad mouth the people who've done us wrong.



Best regards,

Cliff



FamilyGage(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote] Knowing that our Yak site is designed to share technical information, 

 parts, events, etc.; I have hesitated to poach this subject.

 Almost a year ago I contracted with Gulf Coast Avionics to do a 

 complete avionics upgrade on my Yak-52W.  The job was to take two or 

 three weeks to complete.  Over four months later the conversion was 

 still not completed.

 When I did pick her up, oops, no brakes.  The main hydrolytic line 

 from the reservoir was torn off of the front rudder pedal.  They would 

 not repair the line, and if it were not for Craig Payne who found an 

 A/P, the plane would still be in the back of their hangar.

 On the trip home neither of the new com's would work.  As well as the 

 new audio panel, VOR-ILS were also inoperative.

 I have written letters, made telephone calls for many months, and Gulf 

 Coast will not respond.  Craig does not know any aviation attorneys in 

 Lakeland.

 Being an AOPA member since 1962, and paying extra for their so call 

 "Legal Insurance", I contacted them.  They gave me three names in the 

 Daytona Beach area.  None of the three had ANY interest in my problem 

 since it was not a multimillion dollar case.  Well, so much for AOPA 

 insurance protection.

 All that I have ever asked of Gulf Coast Avionics is to have avionics 

 that actually work!

 My understanding is that Pacific Coast Avionics is a part of this same 

 company.

  

 If anyone has any suggestions, I am open.  Just beware, because a 

 signed contract means nothing once you have paid their bill.

  

 Ray Gage



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com 

 <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.



*

*========================sp;        - The Yak-Lbsp;the many List utilities such as the&nb================================================         - NEW MAontent now also available via the Web&nbsp======================================

    	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: Beware

Always being one to jump right into the middle of a good

argument/debate/discussion, I have my own 2 cents to add, and that is

about EXACTLY how much my opinion is worth, but I am going to state it

anyway.  Flames welcomed.  Feel free.    



1.  There is most likely some credibility to the post made by Ray Gage.

I am absolutely CERTAIN that he feels that he was taken advantage of and

was a victim.  Oftentimes when a person feels "taken" by some firm or

organization, the Internet becomes his or her only forum for outlet or a

place to cry for justice.  



2.  Of course, there are always two sides to any story.  



3.  Anyone wanting to hear the other side of the story has the ability

to contact Gulf Coast personally, make them aware of Ray's posting and

accusations, and ask for an explanation.  If Gulf Coast does provide an

explanation, then each person can draw their own conclusion based on

their own method of judgment.  If Gulf Coast refuses to discuss or

explain what happened, then they must be willing to accept

responsibility for any outcome that results from that refusal.  



4.  Gulf Coast itself has the right to reply to Ray's posting on this

forum if they so choose.  If they choose not to defend themselves in

public, there is no requirement for anyone else to do so for them.  



5.  I have dealt with Cliff Coy on a number of occasions and can

personally testify that he has always been an honest, pleasant person to

work with, and has met every promise he has ever made to me in a timely

and businesslike manner.  I would not hesitate to recommend Cliff or his

Dad to any reader on this list, and those of you that know me will agree

that I don't give such recommendations lightly. Gesoco is a reputable

firm and should be proud of the reputation they have earned.  



That said: Cliff.... With respect, let me say that if you are going to

make any comments at all on this issue, then you must realize that even

if you do not mean to, your reputation lends weight to anything you say.

In truth, you did not really SAY ANYTHING.  However, there was no doubt

of the innuendo implied.  You contacted Gulf Coast, and then you wrote

your posting.  The only reasonable conclusion is that whatever they did,

whatever really happened, they felt that what they did was fair and just

and you identified with their position.  However, we really do not know

what led you to this conclusion, and we are not able to apply our own

judgment with the facts that you were presented with.  



6.  Which leads me to this next point:  Cliff Coy contacted Gulf Coast

and was convinced by Brad that there is another side to this story that

should at least be kept in mind.  Cliff then posted this account

basically because he identified with another person who runs a small

business like his own. 



7.  There is no requirement for Cliff to post anything further, nor

should anyone ask him to.  To do so would put him in the position of

making a judgment call, and then putting that judgment call on line for

a firm he is not associated with, and even if he did, it would still be

hear-say. 



8.  So that leaves this bottom line.  Ray Gage feels he was ripped off.

He is warning others to beware the firm that he says ripped him off.  If

I have any chance of dealing with Gulf Coast in the future, I will

demand an explanation of what happened to Ray before I do any business

with them, and I will draw my own conclusions, and that is the advice I

am offering to everyone else.  If enough of us contact Gulf Coast, I

believe they will either make amends with Ray, or come on line with

their own version of the story. First Hand.   



To Ray, I offer this advice: 



A.  You need to (as soon as possible) take your aircraft to the most

reputable Avionics Repair Facility that you can locate.  The sooner the

better.  Do not pass go, no excuses, do not collect $200, do it NOW.  



B.  You need to have them examine the work done by Gulf Coast and have

them document any work or repair that is Not In Accordance With FAA and

FCC established standards.  You need to document, or have an official

estimate made on what it will take to correct these deficiencies.  You

need to provide them with a copy of the contract which you agreed upon

with Gulf Coast, and have them officially document where THEY felt that

this contractual agreement was violated.  The longer you wait to do

this, the less impact it will have on a person who will eventually judge

the case.  



C.  If the amount is LESS than what you can legally claim in Small

Claims Court, then I submit that you should pursue this avenue

regardless of the 100 mile drive each way.  You still have an

airplane... Right?  100 miles is not all that far in a YAK-52W.   Why?

Because if you take this matter to ANY court.. Be it small claims or

even a Civil Case, you will not only receive your money back if you can

provide reasonable proof, but you can then bring that judgment to every

single list-server and email reader that you can, and seriously impact

the future revenue of Gulf Coast.  If you FAIL to do any of the above,

then please do not take this as a personal insult, but it impacts your

credibility with any and all readers. 



Respectfully, 



Mark Bitterlich

N50YK

    



--

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Beware

Aviation can be a small world when it comes to dealings with others. There are way too many less than honest people out there..and sometimes they are within a very small group such as ours. When you tighten the group even further by limiting the scope to type of airplane, then it is nearly impossible to hide your actions. I have had more than a few folks ask me about these airplanes and I have been honest about from who to buy from or seek advice. I have also mentioned those who I would not deal with. There is a small group of folks that I trust without question....two of them post here fairly often and are staunch supporters of this small group of owner/operators. 



If a person or organization thinks they will get away with something and someone will not pass along their experience, they are blind and foolish.  (and I am not saying Gulf Coast did..just general statement)

Brad M.

Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Beware

To all reading this posting, I would like to remind everyone that there are always two sides to every story.  As with any installation things can come up that are unexpected and unplanned, especially when dealing with such a unique aircraft as the YAK.  Were there issues yes, were there delays of course, and as the manager I take full responsibility!  

 

Was the aircraft in our facility for 4 months, no!  It was 3 months.  Still a long time when we expected 4 weeks.  Changes and customizations that had to be made to accomidate components goint places were it "looks" like it should fit.  Fabrication of mount structure that do not exist, or would not work.  Just as in the case of the autopilot, we were assured by the manufacturer that there were lots of installations, and come to find out that we were providing the documentation and mounting for future installs after the fact.  Fabricating custom brackets, having special made parts shipped back and forth.  All of which lead to delays.         

 

When the aircraft was to picked up did the main hydraulic line have a tear in it?  Absolutely!  Should we be held responsible for that absolutely not!.  The brake line was the wrong type line, it was standard clear soft plastic static tubing, not designed for corrosive fluids.  Once we found where the fluid going when the reservoir was filled, we found the hose broken at a clamp where the fluid had caused the hose to become deteriorated.  It was not just a broken line due to negligence, and it was not the only line, that was bad, the entire brake system was put together with that tubing.  When a mechanic was found who was willing to work on the ship, he had to replace all the lines!

 

I could easily respond to every point, and the fact is there are always two sides, neither is ever completely right or wrong, we are the first to tell you we are not perfect.  However the bottom line when Mr. Gauge left with the aircraft after the squawks he had listed were repaired, OVER ONE YEAR AGO, that was the last we had heard of any problems until now!  His many letters were one we received prior to his posting. 

 

Gulf Coast Avionics would not be rated in the top 20 every year by all the manufacturers we support if we were not doing something right.  We are not in the business of leaving any customer with problems.

 

Regards,

Brad Miller

Service Manager

Gulf Coast Avionics Corp.

(863) 709-9714 ext 108

brad(at)gca.aero

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