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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Firestar II to Firefly

Possums,



I like the Horner  style wing tips! I had that STC mod on the Piper Cherokee I had several years ago and it made a big improvement over the standard Hershey Bar wing tips. Since I've got to fix one wing tip on the FS 1 anyway, I just might do both of them this way. 



Thanks for the TIP. (pun intended)

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:36 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Hey Possum, I like the wingtip, do you think it is  effective?

  

  

 Steve



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:43 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/etzim62(at)earthlink.net.02.11.2006/ 

P2100044.jpg

http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/etzim62(at)earthlink.net.02.11.2006/ 

P2100045.jpg



On Aug 17, 2007, at 7:22 AM, possums wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   At 09:23 PM 8/15/2007, you wrote:

> Cage from a Firestar KXP that got trashed from being outside not tied

> down during a pop-up afternoon thunderstorm (wings and tail feathers

> busted up, cage fine)



 Same thing here .... crashed in the lake - Firestar KXP but: I  

 rebuilt the cage,

 rebuilt the wings, bought a new engine, (I really like my new 503 -  

 732+ hrs) ..got the

 same nose cone, stick - .....But I figure it's taking up the same  

 space/time continuum

 So I don't need to buy a "carbon credit".

 My Great Grandfather left me his hammer (he was a carpenter from  

 Ireland) ....But the "head " was

 "eioj" Iron and rusted really bad, so I had to replaced it. And the  

 handle was broken..so I had to replace it too..

 But...I figure it's taking up the same space and it's an antique -  

 except for the parts.



> Build 22' wings (ala Slinghot/Firefly), 7 ribs, bunch of bracing (ala

> Slingshot) really stout drag strut..



 Me too - except 8 ribs and 26' 9" wings ...tip to tip. bunch of  

 bracing (ala

 Slingshot) really stout drag strut..like you said. + angle bracing  

 per Hauck.

 You should change your wing tips?.It would save you about 18 inches.

 AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION - It will cost you at LOT  to go to 22'  

 wings.

 Work on the tips and add a little wing, it's nice to stall at 30 - 

 mph with VGs.

 They work, and that's the truth!



 http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/



> .single lift strut like all the

> Kolbs except the Firefly...



 Me too - the doubles only "slows you down" 8 mph

 unless you're doing loops - you don't need them.

> Add 9" chord ailerons like a Slingshot uses...fab the flaperon  

> mechanism

> like the Firefly/SS/Firestar2 and get rid of the original Firestar

> aileron mechanism...

> Fab a support to mount a 10 Challenger tank

> Build a set of tail feathers but cut the boom tube down to Slingshot

> length.

> Rig it with the lower angle of attack (and decalage of course) of the

> Slingshot and add Slingshot-like gear legs to get the deck angle  

> right

> to get a 3 point landing out of it with the lower wing AOA.

>

> Weld up a flip-over canopy frame (ala Slingshot).

>

> Mount the 503 sitting under the workbench...

>

> You basically have a single seat Slingshot.  It will only have  

> 52HP but

> also should be about 100 pounds lighter than a 582 Slingshot.

>

> Will have same wing area, flaperons, and tail dimensions and tail

> rigging of a Slingshot (just little lower wing loading from being

> lighter).  With the lighter weight and the 52 HP of the 503 it will

> actually have a better power/weight ratio than a 582 Slingshot...that

> combined with the lower wing loading should mean better takeoff and

> climb than a 582 Slingshot (which is awesome...)

>

> Sound fun?   

>

> Jeremy Casey

 <1 Wing tip.jpg>

 <3 Drawing 2.jpg>

 <Wingbow front.jpg>

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

A few more perspectives showing my modified wing planform.



http://picasaweb.google.com/imhisson2/NewAlbum42707610PM



Gene

On Aug 17, 2007, at 8:42 AM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/etzim62(at)earthlink.net. 

 02.11.2006/P2100044.jpg

 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/etzim62(at)earthlink.net. 

 02.11.2006/P2100045.jpg

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Eugene



Wouldn't you  know it...lawn boy lawn mower...   Herb 



do not archive



 

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:42:58 -0400 Eugene Zimmerman <ez(at)embarqmail.com>

writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <ez(at)embarqmail.com>

 

 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/etzim62(at)earthlink.net.02.11.2006/ 

 

 P2100044.jpg

 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/etzim62(at)earthlink.net.02.11.2006/ 

 

 P2100045.jpg

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Thinking about wing tips..  I read that the whittman tip was low drag? 

Similar to the current Kolb design.. Herb



do not archive.



  

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:42:58 -0400 Eugene Zimmerman <ez(at)embarqmail.com>

writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <ez(at)embarqmail.com>

 

 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/etzim62(at)earthlink.net.02.11.2006/ 

 

 P2100044.jpg

 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/etzim62(at)earthlink.net.02.11.2006/ 

 

 P2100045.jpg

 

 

 

 On Aug 17, 2007, at 7:22 AM, possums wrote:

 

 > At 09:23 PM 8/15/2007, you wrote:

 >> Cage from a Firestar KXP that got trashed from being outside not 

 tied

 >> down during a pop-up afternoon thunderstorm (wings and tail 

 feathers

 >> busted up, cage fine)

 >

 > Same thing here .... crashed in the lake - Firestar KXP but: I  

 > rebuilt the cage,

 > rebuilt the wings, bought a new engine, (I really like my new 503 

 -  

 > 732+ hrs) ..got the

 > same nose cone, stick - .....But I figure it's taking up the same  

 

 > space/time continuum

 > So I don't need to buy a "carbon credit".

 > My Great Grandfather left me his hammer (he was a carpenter from  

 

 > Ireland) ....But the "head " was

 > "eioj" Iron and rusted really bad, so I had to replaced it. And 

 the  

 > handle was broken..so I had to replace it too..

 > But...I figure it's taking up the same space and it's an antique - 

  

 > except for the parts.

 >

 >> Build 22' wings (ala Slinghot/Firefly), 7 ribs, bunch of bracing 

 (ala

 >> Slingshot) really stout drag strut..

 >

 > Me too - except 8 ribs and 26' 9" wings ...tip to tip. bunch of  

 > bracing (ala

 > Slingshot) really stout drag strut..like you said. + angle bracing 

  

 > per Hauck.

 > You should change your wing tips?.It would save you about 18 

 inches.

 > AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION - It will cost you at LOT  to go to 

 22'  

 > wings.

 > Work on the tips and add a little wing, it's nice to stall at 30 - 

 

 > mph with VGs.

 > They work, and that's the truth!

 >

 > http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >> .single lift strut like all the

 >> Kolbs except the Firefly...

 >

 > Me too - the doubles only "slows you down" 8 mph

 > unless you're doing loops - you don't need them.

 >

 >

 >> Add 9" chord ailerons like a Slingshot uses...fab the flaperon  

 >> mechanism

 >> like the Firefly/SS/Firestar2 and get rid of the original 

 Firestar

 >> aileron mechanism...

 >> Fab a support to mount a 10 Challenger tank

 >> Build a set of tail feathers but cut the boom tube down to 

 Slingshot

 >> length.

 >> Rig it with the lower angle of attack (and decalage of course) of 

 the

 >> Slingshot and add Slingshot-like gear legs to get the deck angle  

 

 >> right

 >> to get a 3 point landing out of it with the lower wing AOA.

 >>

 >> Weld up a flip-over canopy frame (ala Slingshot).

 >>

 >> Mount the 503 sitting under the workbench...

 >>

 >> You basically have a single seat Slingshot.  It will only have  

 >> 52HP but

 >> also should be about 100 pounds lighter than a 582 Slingshot.

 >>

 >> Will have same wing area, flaperons, and tail dimensions and 

 tail

 >> rigging of a Slingshot (just little lower wing loading from 

 being

 >> lighter).  With the lighter weight and the 52 HP of the 503 it 

 will

 >> actually have a better power/weight ratio than a 582 

 Slingshot...that

 >> combined with the lower wing loading should mean better takeoff 

 and

 >> climb than a 582 Slingshot (which is awesome...)

 >>

 >> Sound fun?   

 >>

 >> Jeremy Casey

 > <1 Wing tip.jpg>

 > <3 Drawing 2.jpg>

 > <Wingbow front.jpg>

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

30 years and still tickn.

Who says 2-strokes are not reliable?



On Aug 17, 2007, at 11:32 AM, herbgh(at)juno.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Eugene



 Wouldn't you  know it...lawn boy lawn mower...   Herb



 do not archive

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Eugene



  no doubt you have egt and cht and tach strapped to the handle

somewhere??    



  Herb 

 do not archive



 

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:07:31 -0400 Eugene Zimmerman <ez(at)embarqmail.com>

writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <ez(at)embarqmail.com>

 

 30 years and still tickn.

 Who says 2-strokes are not reliable?

 

 On Aug 17, 2007, at 11:32 AM, herbgh(at)juno.com wrote:

 

 > 

 >

 > Eugene

 >

 > Wouldn't you  know it...lawn boy lawn mower...   Herb

 >

 > do not archive

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Firestar II to Firefly

I like your wing tip counter weights.



You should put fins on them and paint them up like AIM-9's

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

At 12:31 PM 8/17/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I like your wing tip counter weights.



You should put fins on them and paint them up like AIM-9's


	


YES - I did that "at first", but they broke off and you have to buy the

whole rocket - just to get the fins $20 and I superglued them on last time

and they still broke off after 50 hrs.

But the little counter weights have lead in the ends.

So even tho they look like rockets they are still counter weights.

1planeguy(at)kilocharlie.
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Build 22' wings (ala Slinghot/Firefly), 7 ribs, bunch of bracing (ala

 Slingshot) really stout drag strut..  



 Me too - except 8 ribs and 26' 9" wings ...tip to tip. bunch of bracing (ala

 Slingshot) really stout drag strut..like you said. + angle bracing per Hauck.

 You should change your wing tips?.It would save you about 18 inches.

 AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION - It will cost you at LOT  to go to 22' wings.

 Work on the tips and add a little wing, it's nice to stall at 30 -mph with VGs.

 They work, and that's the truth!

 

   

<snip>  

   

Have flown my share of big wing homebuilts…wanted a “toy” that would handle as such…yea stall will go up but the beating from thermals will go down thanks to the higher wing loading too…everything is a tradeoff.  Flew a clip-wing Challenger single place and compared to the 2 place long wing I flew at the time the clip-wing single was a hoot to fly and the 2 place long wing was a pig.  When I run across this cage the first thing through my head was mini-Slingshot …  Also the wings were toast already so I was starting from scratch anyway…  

   

Jeremy  

   

P.S.  I posted a lengthy explanation of some VG experience the other day…fully understand the benefits of VG’s and the “Superfly” will have them too…  

   

P.P.S.  The RANS S7 with VG’s indicated 26 at “stall” solo…but AS indicators are pretty inaccurate that slow…although the GPS says it’s real close…then again just a puff of wind at those low numbers will affect the GPS too….  

   

       [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Jeremy:

  

 Some day I would like to do a side by side comparison with  one of these super slow flying aircraft and my non-VG equipped mkIII.   Might give me some idea of what I am missing, flying around in a hawg that  weighs way too much.

  

 I offerred the right reverend Pike the opportunity to rub  it in, the VG thing that is, doing a side by side, but he said that would not be  fair.  Still waiting.  I don't mind getting whupped.  Promise not  to whine too loud if I do.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]    P.P.S.  The RANS S7 with VG’s indicated 26 at    “stall” solo…but AS indicators are pretty inaccurate that slow…although the    GPS says it’s real close…then again just a puff of wind at those low numbers    will affect the GPS too

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

I still don't think it would be fair, but just to even the odds, maybe we  could talk Travis into riding with me while we do it...

  

 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

John, I agree with the preacher. It would not be fair.



But I'd love to give it a try with my modified Firestar.

I have never had an aircraft best me yet in a slow-flight challenge  

except the slow Jelly Fish and I can  match even some of them.



Gene



On Aug 18, 2007, at 4:24 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Jeremy:



 Some day I would like to do a side by side comparison with one of  

 these super slow flying aircraft and my non-VG equipped mkIII.   

 Might give me some idea of what I am missing, flying around in a  

 hawg that weighs way too much.



 I offerred the right reverend Pike the opportunity to rub it in,  

 the VG thing that is, doing a side by side, but he said that would  

 not be fair.  Still waiting.  I don't mind getting whupped.   

 Promise not to whine too loud if I do.



 john h

 mkIII

  P.P.S.  The RANS S7 with VG’s indicated 26 at “stall” solo…but AS  

 indicators are pretty inaccurate that slow…although the GPS says  

 it’s real close…then again just a puff of wind at those low numbers  

 will affect the GPS too

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Will you be there Gene?

Of course, I would want Travis on the ground if I was matched against your 

Firestar...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Richard,

"Fleeting are the delights of a delusion."

Me and my Firestar  are both phatt

What do I get if I win? 



Gene



On Aug 18, 2007, at 5:54 PM, Richard Pike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Will you be there Gene?

 Of course, I would want Travis on the ground if I was matched  

 against your Firestar...



 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

All the honors and privileges of an Aviation Superstar.

Too bad there aren't any...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Hi guys,  I was up last night at sundown,  very still air,  cool  

enough for a light jacket.

I climbed out at 40 indicated, half flaps, let it get up to 45 before  

easing them off.

Naturally I don't want to stall with the trucks below on I-90 but the  

angle of climb

was just dandy and felt solid.

I don't run that close in rough air but in that calm stuff you can  

run much closer

to the theoretical.  Fun too.

BB

do not archive

jcooley380(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Hey Jeremy,  

Didn’t you buy a Kolbra without an engine in the past year or so. I was looking at it also and seems that I remember that you bought it. If so, what happened to it that’s already got you started on another project?   

   

Later,  

John  Cooley  

   

Do not archive  

         

  

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Casey

 Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:16 AM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Firestar II to Firefly  

  

   

Build 22' wings (ala Slinghot/Firefly), 7 ribs, bunch of bracing (ala

 Slingshot) really stout drag strut..  



 Me too - except 8 ribs and 26' 9" wings ...tip to tip. bunch of bracing (ala

 Slingshot) really stout drag strut..like you said. + angle bracing per Hauck.

 You should change your wing tips?.It would save you about 18 inches.

 AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION - It will cost you at LOT  to go to 22' wings.

 Work on the tips and add a little wing, it's nice to stall at 30 -mph with VGs.

 They work, and that's the truth!  

<snip>  

   

Have flown my share of big wing homebuilts…wanted a “toy” that would handle as such…yea stall will go up but the beating from thermals will go down thanks to the higher wing loading too…everything is a tradeoff.  Flew a clip-wing Challenger single place and compared to the 2 place long wing I flew at the time the clip-wing single was a hoot to fly and the 2 place long wing was a pig.  When I run across this cage the first thing through my head was mini-Slingshot …  Also the wings were toast already so I was starting from scratch anyway…  

   

Jeremy  

   

P.S.  I posted a lengthy explanation of some VG experience the other day…fully understand the benefits of VG’s and the “Superfly” will have them too…  

   

P.P.S.  The RANS S7 with VG’s indicated 26 at “stall” solo…but AS indicators are pretty inaccurate that slow…although the GPS says it’s real close…then again just a puff of wind at those low numbers will affect the GPS too….  

    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4

     Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM 

  8/19/2007 7:27 AM

     [quote][b]

1planeguy(at)kilocharlie.
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: Firestar II to Firefly

Jeremy:  

    

   

    

Some day I would like to do a side by side comparison with one of these super slow flying aircraft and my non-VG equipped mkIII.  Might give me some idea of what I am missing, flying around in a hawg that weighs way too much.  

    

   

    

I offerred the right reverend Pike the opportunity to rub it in, the VG thing that is, doing a side by side, but he said that would not be fair.  Still waiting.  I don't mind getting whupped.  Promise not to whine too loud if I do.  

    

   

    

john h  

    

mkIII  

  [quote]    

<snip>  

   

Are we “flying” for pinks???   When is the Kolb Homecoming?  If work works out ok I just might fly up…then your on.  Question…are we limiting to power off or is power on ok too?  Power on I could get out and walk along beside it… (tractor engine…low thrust line will help it “hang” on prop…one of the few advantages to that engine getting the best view of the air out front…)  

   

Jeremy  

  [b]

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