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Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200
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Giovanni Day

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 43

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

I have about 20 hours on my model 4 1200 now. The last time I flew it was not running the best. Went out to fly last night and it would not run without the choke at all. Pulled the carbs off and there is a thick amber residue lining the intake and the inside of the carbs. The engine is not new and I never have seen this before. It was not there 20hours ago. It seems the fuel has something in it doing this.  Any help in figuring out what it is would help.

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Giovanni Day
Model 4 speedster 912

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

sounds like varnish. How long ago was the last time you flew it or ran it?

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DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

Just a bit of a guess, but are you running gas with ethonal (alcohol) in 

your fiberglass tanks?  If so, perhaps the tanks are disolveing.  ???  

Alcoho will melt some fiberglass resins.   Jim Chuk  Avid/Jab

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Giovanni Day" <thedays(at)mchsi.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:08:22 -0700






I have about 20 hours on my model 4 1200 now. The last time I flew it was 

not running the best. When out to fly last night and it would not run 

without the choke at all. Pulled the carbs off and there is a thick amber 

residue lining the intake and the inside of the carbs. The engine is not 

new and I never have seen this before. It was not there 20hours ago. It 

seems the fuel has something in it doing this.  Any help in figuring out 

what it is would help.



--------

_______________________________________

Giovanni Day

Model 4 speedster 912





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132010#132010






	


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kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

To check for the tanks coming apart you can do a check of the tanks by draining some fuel out the check valves at the bottom of the tank, you can also take a flash light and look inside the tank and slosh the tanks around.  My guess is that the fuel is real old.  Take a rubber hose about 3/8 size and about 4 ft long and shove it down in the tank and then take a straight razor blade and put a small cut in the end and then use compressed air and shot some into the crack you made to cause a siphon then let it drain into a tank and either throw it away or put it in your vehicle.  Then put some fresh 89 octain fuel in. I find 89 to run the best in mine.   



After all this take and buy some brake cleaner in a can, remove the bowls and take apart each circuit, there are three, and force the brake fluid through each, the one right in front of the main jets are the most important, this has a circuit for air bleed that goes right to the intake of the carb, it has a really tiny hole, remove the filter so that you can see the brake fluid coming out the hole, chase it with compressed air afterwards.  Don't neglect doing this, I know about the bings doing this, mine did this same exact thing.  It's also important to have good hoses, fuel injection hose for in the engine compartment and the blue bing hose from the tanks to the firewall.



hope this helps

Giovanni Day

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 43

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

The plane has not sat and the fuel is not old. Some one has suggested that the MTBE is melting the tank. Is there a coating I can put in it?

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Giovanni Day
Model 4 speedster 912

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

I would like to add a note on the fix for my carb problems.  It was the air filters.  What I found happening was the filters started coming apart, yup the little fibers went right into the air bleed that I talked about for the mid range.  I had K&N filters.  I bought new ones, they ended up being the bigger ones.  I also bought the charge system for them also, I think I need to do it because the redness is going away from the bottom of the filters, after this weekends flyin at homedale I plan on doing them.

kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

I use KN filters also, everytime I clean my filters, I use the re-charge kit 

and re-coat them with the red spay after they have dried.



Ray

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans(at)qwest.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:56:38 -0700






I would like to add a note on the fix for my carb problems.  It was the air 

filters.  What I found happening was the filters started coming apart, yup 

the little fibers went right into the air bleed that I talked about for the 

mid range.  I had K&N filters.  I bought new ones, they ended up being the 

bigger ones.  I also bought the charge system for them also, I think I need 

to do it because the redness is going away from the bottom of the filters, 

after this weekends flyin at homedale I plan on doing them.



--------

kitfoxmike

model IV, 1200

speedster

912ul

building

RV7a

slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit

&quot;if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not 

flying enough&quot;

Do not archive





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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132074#132074






	


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kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

That's what I plan on doing with mine, use the recharge kit.  What happened to my old ones is brake cleaner got on them and litteraly distroyed them.  Make sure and remove the filter before cleaning the carbs.

Giovanni Day

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 43

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

I went out with some carb cleaner from wally world and it took the stuff right off. Took the bowls off and clean the carbs with it realy good. It was not hard to get them clean at all. Makes me wonder if it is really the tanks. I will see if the inside of the tanks feel gooey. 



One note: There is no residue or fibers in the gascolator.

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Giovanni Day
Model 4 speedster 912

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

make sure you unscrew the jets inside and force the carb cleaner through the opening.  You have to get a small screwdriver in there and unscrew it, it has an oring and a long tube with a hole on the end and several holes on the side, I haven't seen that plug up but the inside of the carb that goes to the opening of the carb sure does. Put the plastic extension on the carb can and stick it up the opening and fire away until it comes out the little opening at the opening of the carb.

Giovanni Day

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 43

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

I guess if I run 100LL that this might solve the problem. No ethanol or MTBE correct??

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Giovanni Day
Model 4 speedster 912

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

100LL can bring its own set of problems with lead build up.  Special provisions are required with a straight diet of 100LL

  

   Archi  [quote][b]

barry(at)pgtc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

Giovanni, if the amber coating is on the inlets to the carbs it must have 

come from the filters or through the filters.



Barry West



---

Giovanni Day

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 43

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

There was very little on the inlet side of the carbs, realy almost none. On the side after the slide it was thick enough to scrape with my fingernail.



Good point about the 100LL. It is just like medicine. I feel at this point though I want to trade the tank cancer for a the manageable clogging of the arteries. Unless someone has a better solution to fix the tank cancer. 



I will be sure to run conventional oil and change it more frequently. What else do I need to do to run 100LL on the 912? Thanks for all the good comments.



I checked my fuel source. They have stopped MTBE and started ethanol. Seems tanks with vinyl ester resins have less trouble. Maybe I could give my tanks a coat of it?

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Giovanni Day
Model 4 speedster 912

Last edited by Giovanni Day on Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

Well, the other thing to do is put in tcb.  I think that's what it's called.  Some marvel mystery.  Last but not least.  do a decarbin of the engine on a frequent basis.  You will have a white coating on the exhaust valves, just remove the muffler system and take a looksy after using 100ll.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

MTBE won't do that but ethanol sure will!



Noel



[quote] --

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Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

True but you may have to change your plugs more often.  If you can get

ethanol clean MOGAS ( wash the eth out with water) you can mix that with

100LL, around 50:50 and make a good fuel.  Don't forget the lead can plate

out on the roller bearings of your crankshaft on a two stroke engine.



Noel



[quote] --

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Giovanni Day

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 43

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

I had not thought about MOGAS. If it has no MTBE or Ethanol I can use it. I guess the real question it how long it will be available.

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Giovanni Day
Model 4 speedster 912

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

I  think MTBE is gone. The phase out started several years ago only 

to be replaced by ethanol. To bad because MTBE was not a concern. The 

fuel companies once forecast that straight MTBE would be used to 

replace 100LL. Unleaded gas without MTBE or Ethanol for your car is 

available, but must be purchased out side the EPA control areas. Like 

here in CO once you leave the Denver & Colo Spr populated areas you 

can find it. Here in S CO we get good gas. but it has low octane due 

to altitude.



Question: If you buy Mogas at the airport is it free if ethanol?

Paul

======================



At 06:59 PM 8/31/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I had not thought about MOGAS. If it has no MTBE or Ethanol I can 

use it. I guess the real question it how long it will be available.



--------

_______________________________________

Giovanni Day

Model 4 speedster 912





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132161#132161

Giovanni Day

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 43

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Amber residue in 912 intake Model 4-1200

I realy doubt that MOGAS is ethanol free. I will find out in the next few days. Are new kitfox kits with poly tanks or still fiberglass? Does someone make poly tanks to replace mine? Thanks again..

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Giovanni Day
Model 4 speedster 912

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