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Marvel Oil

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hdoud(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Marvel Oil

Dave:

  

 Plugs were running clean and without carbon at 50  hours.   Gap was still at 18 thousands.  Changed them  anyway.  Using  NGK BR8ES plugs.

  

 So far as the combustion chamber being as clean as  the plugs, .....I dunno...I have a 582 bluehead with about 175 hours and haven't  felt the need to tear it down yet.   Running smooth at cruise and  idles smooth.

  

 Just guessing, at this point, but hope that the chamber and rings are as  clean as the plugs.  On my old 582 gray head, the plugs pretty well matched  the condition of the combustion chamber.

  

 Herbert Doud

 Kitfox IV/582

 New Braunfels, Tx

  

 *************************

  

 Time: 03:07:07 PM PST US

Subject: Re: Bunches of  stuff

From: "dave" <[url=]dave(at)cfisher.com[/url]>

How  many hours do you get out of your 582 plugs by using  Marvel oil ?  



how do you know your 582  is clean inside   ?

Dave



--------

Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

Flying  Videos and Kitfox Info

[url=]http://www.cfisher.com/[/url]



   [quote][b]

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Marvel Oil

Herbert ,  Thanks  for the info. 



I have never needed it in  over 35 years of 2 strokes. 



Did you know it made of Stoddard solvent, Mineral oil and Lard . ? 



I get 150 hours out of my  582  on  BR8ES  solid tips  that are pre gapped .018 new.   Pics here http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html

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hdoud(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: Marvel Oil

Kitfoxers replying to my use and results of Marvel  Mystery Oil.

  

 As I've explained previously, I'm using the Marvel  in my Rotax injection system, mixed with my regular 2 cycle  oil.    

  

 I add to 13 oz. of  Penzoil, 2 cycle oil  for air cooled engines, 2 oz. of Marvel oil to the oil injection  reservoir,  which is a ratio of 50:1, (2.5 oz. per gal of gas) of 2  cycle oil and 320:1,(.40 oz. per gal.) of gas Marvel Oil. (Marvel's  recommended  ratio of oil to gas.  2 oz. per 5 gal.  gas.)  13 oz. of Penzoil in the Rotax injection system, also treats 5 gal.  gas.

  

 I questioned the effect of Marvel in the only  rubber (?) tubing, carrying the oil fom the oil reservoir to the injection  pump.   I'm keeping a close eye on that 6 inch tubing for any signs of  deterioration.   There hasn't been any in over a  year.    I think the very small and fragile needle end of rubber  (?) on the end of the float valve needle must be overly affected with it's tiny  size, as compared to the larger rubber (?) tubing..   If I see there  is any sign of deterioration in the tubing, I'll replace it with a plastic line,  possibly urethane.

  

 For those folks, having no carbonization and a  clean running engine, I see no reason to make any changes.  I 

 posted the subect for those Kitfoxers who may be  having a dirty plug problem, even with proper leaning and a desire to  hopefully, keep cleaner rings and a cleaner combustion  chamber.    It's worked for me over the past 50 years, with  antique cars, with engine break -in, keeping clean combustion chambers and  a smooth running lower end.   Marvel has been in business making the  oil since 1925..  That's a very long marketing time.

  

 My NGK BR8ES,  plugs in the Rotax, looked like  new and still gapped at .018 thousands, when I pulled them at 50 hours and would  have gone much longer, but since I had 'em out, I replaced 'em.  As  mentioned my ATV plugs were fouling like crazy, before Marvel and clean after  using Marvel, but I had many float needle replacements, which stopped, when I  quit premixing Marvel in the ATV gas, so beware using Marvel for pre-mix in the  fuel tank.   There's been no leaking of fuel in the Kitfox, since I  went to oil injection.

  

 Many years ago, I talked with the Marvel folks  about the make-up of their product.  They were naturally secretive, but  after the discussion, I gathered that Marvel was made up of a detergent solvent  like Varsol, such as we have been cleaning aircraft engines with, for years and  a low level carboning and lubricating grease, basically derrived from  animal fat.  

  

  I can only assume from the Kitfox plug and  exhaust pipe cleanliness, that the combustion chamber and rings would be cleaner  as well, also drawing on my past experience with old auto engines.    Won't know for certain 'till the teardown of my 582 Blue Head, which has about  150 hours to date.  

  

 Hopefully the foregoing might be of help for some  of our group.

  

 Herbert Doud

 Kitfox IV / 582 Blue Head

 New Braunfels, Tx

  

 ************************************************

  

 and exhaust  Time: 08:19:04 PM PST US

Subject:  Re: Marvel Oil

From: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com (dave(at)cfisher.com)>

Herbert ,  Thanks  for the info. 



I have  never needed it in  over 35 years of 2 strokes. 



Did you know it  made of Stoddard solvent, Mineral oil and Lard . ? 



I get 150 hours out  of my  582  on  BR8ES  solid tips  that are pre gapped  .018 new.   Pics here http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html

  

 Time: 08:19:04  PM PST US

Subject: Re: Marvel Oil

From: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com (dave(at)cfisher.com)>

Herbert ,  Thanks  for the info. 



I have  never needed it in  over 35 years of 2 strokes. 



Did you know it  made of Stoddard solvent, Mineral oil and Lard . ? 



I get 150 hours out  of my  582  on  BR8ES  solid tips  that are pre gapped  .018 new.   Pics here http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html



cleanliness and  C

  

  

 Kitfoxers  replying to myTime: 07:35:39 AM PST US

From: Jim Corner <[url=]jcorner(at)shaw.ca[/url]>

Subject: Re: Bunches of  stuff



Herbert.... I am thinking of adding Marvel to my 582 operation,  are  

you using straight Marvel in the injection system or are you  adding  

it to your regular injection oil?  If so in what  percentage?



Jim



Kitfox 2, 582,

1100+ hrs

Calgary  AB



*****************************************

  

 Time: 07:45:50  AM PST US

Subject: Re: Bunches of stuff

From: "dave"  <[url=]dave(at)cfisher.com[/url]>

Can i ask why would you want to add it ? 



I run  easy past 300 hours using Bombardier XPS mineral oil and have no reason  to

need it so far ?



--------

Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

Flying  Videos and Kitfox Info

http://www.cfisher.com/



 ******************************************

 Time: 03:07:07  PM PST US

Subject: Re: Bunches of stuff

From: "dave"  <[url=]dave(at)cfisher.com[/url]>

How many hours do you get out of your 582 plugs by  using  Marvel oil ? 



how do you know your 582  is clean  inside  ?

Dave



--------

Rotax Dealer, Ontario  Canada

Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

http://www.cfisher.com/



 ************************************************

 Time: 05:28:29  PM PST US

From: "Andy Fultz" <[url=]andynfultz(at)bellsouth.net[/url]>

Subject: RE: Bunches of  stuff



If the Mystery Oil is causing damage to the needle tips, I can't  help but

wonder what it's doing to the inside of your fuel lines and or oil  injection

lines?



Andy F.

  -----Original  Message-----

  From: [url=]owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com[/url]

[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On  Behalf Of Herbert Doud

  Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:59  PM

  To: Kitfox-List Digest Server

  Subject: Kitfox-List:  Bunches of stuff

  

 ************************************

 Time: 08:19:04  PM PST US

Subject: Re: Marvel Oil

From: "dave" <[url=]dave(at)cfisher.com[/url]>

Herbert ,  Thanks  for  the info. 



I have never needed it in  over 35 years of 2 strokes.  



Did you know it made of Stoddard solvent, Mineral oil and Lard . ?  



I get 150 hours out of my  582  on  BR8ES  solid  tips  that are pre gapped .018 new.   Pics here [url=]http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html[/url]

   [quote][b]

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Marvel Oil

Herbert I respect your opinion and your success speaks for itself.  That being said what "would have " happened if you had not used it ? 



I can point you fora few articles   

http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/snake_oil.txt



Another one that describes the ingredients  http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1



According to the FAA inspector, the additive that was added to the fuel was Marvel Mystery Oil. An empty 1 gallon can of Marvel Mystery Oil was found in the operator's trash. Instructions found on the can stated that the correct ratio for mixing with fuel was 1 part additive to 100 parts fuel. The contents of Marvel Mystery Oil were 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, and 1 percent lard

>According to Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1014M, dated May 22, 1995, the use of fuel additives was not recommended, and voided the engine warranty.



I don't think Rotax recommends it either.

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Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:23 am Post subject: Marvel Oil

So much controversy ...

  

 Being an individual, my experience would be limited what I can fly.   When Rotax looks at reliability, their view point is from many thousands of  engines over the years and who knows how many hours vs my 400 hrs. in my 582  Bluehead.

  

 There are a few Rotax flyers at my field some are very opinionated  based on their experience...  example...one owner says Amsol is the  answer and so on.  I listen and respect their opinion, its all important  data.  

  

 However, when Rotax recommends a certain RPM, EGT, even oil, that's my  starting point. My baseline.  I will stick with that until someone can  prove to me beyond the Rotax experience that there is a better way.  Then I  would be willing to change.

  

 Just seems to me a logical way of managing risk when we attempt to break  the bonds of earth!

  

 Fly safe and enjoy

  

 Dave



See what's new a_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Marvel Oil

Dave,  for reference Rotax does recommend oil with a API-TC rating .

Pennzoil for Air cooled  is a popular choice  but so is Bombardier XPS mineral oil. I buy it in bulk.  XPS is popular with Ski doo sleds and SeaDoo jet skis as well.   It is made by Castrol and a little bit better than Castrol Super 2 stroke but the supper 2 stroke is still a good choice.  I do use the Super 2 stroke in my  RV bottle just so that I can see it easier as it is blue. 



There is much controversy over oils whether it be  synthetic or mineral oil . But the key is the API-TC rating.  You see outboard oil is TCW rated like TC W3 but outboards have different operating parameters that we do.



If you want to get on synthetics, my rule is if you don't run you engine a few times a week then it is more likely to have a bearing issue than a Mineral oil user.  I have no problem selling Rotax cranks  for $1200 to $1500 each so feel free to  llet them rust. <snicker>  



As far as additives like Marvel oil well that is a personal preference  and some swear by it. I can show you my last 3 582's than went well over 300 hours  with nothing but XPS oil and they ran fine.

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