Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Zenith building expense

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Zenith building expense
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: Zenith building expense

I said just the corvair FWF engine conversion was around 8,800 not  counting the carb, airbox, or cowling. I said nothing about airframe. The  avionics I use cost around 6,000 and as I said before I used a kit not scratch  built but if you have never built an aircraft you will be surprised how the  little things add up.  like flap motors, trim servos, wheels, brake's hell  a canopy is 600.00 + shipping ... If you are saying you can build just the  airframe for 5,000 minus the expensive stuff I might agree with you but I still  say that a well built 601 xl with a good reliable corvair conversion can't be  done for under 25,000 If you do it great but you couldn't do it if you put  in standard instruments and the proper parts for the engine. 

  

  

  

 In a message dated 10/3/2007 2:59:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Not to    drag on, but just adding up what you have listed here, by your own account,    looks more like 9,000 + 8,800 for fuselage and engine. Where's the extra    $17,200? If you're not going ape with avionics, even by your own admission you    should be under $20,000.



Even so, I said $5,000 - $6,000 for fuselage,    $10,000 total, that's a possibility for a bare bones plane, depending on how    much of the engine I do myself, and I will do a  lot.

	


 

  



See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Zenith building expense

Looking at the list, I'd have to say I'll be making at least  50% of the stuff in lines 4 - 19.



Most of the line items I would be interested in would be the internal engine parts. Still, I don't see heads listed on there, nor would I expect them to be. That being the case, why replace the jugs but not the heads. If anything it would be the other way around. If the heads are ok, I don't see any reason the jugs would need to be replaced. Hone them lightly, caliper them, if they look ok no need to spend another $350.



Gasket set, $199? I just found a complete gasket set for $58.



I'm not making this up: Nitrated street racing crank (should be good for a plane huh) $209. Brand new. No, it's not Clarks Corvair.



SCATÂ® CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS 

High-quality cast-iron crankshaft designed to replace stock crankshaft on mildly built street engines. Crankshaft is nitride hardened for superior wear resistance.  

FITS 1967 Chevrolet Corvair 



Review this product

Our Low Price: $209.99      



Not trying to bust your stones, I'm just saying your numbers may be off. So we'll halves it, you may or may not have overpaid for some stuff and I may or may not have to replace more things than I would like to.



do not archive



 	  Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  I think his #'s are way off if you are wanting to scratch build a nice safe  aircraft.... The spread sheet attached is real world #'s with the part numbers  of a plane I did a builder assist on. It has aluminum brake and fuel lines and  the spread sheet includes all the fittings for them also. It doesn't include the  aluminum for scratch building as I used a kit. But I have been kicking around  the idea of scratch building one and the best I can figure it will cost around  25,000.

  

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 10/3/2007 10:41:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Building    from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe a little more.    Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments, $2,500 - $3,000.    If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about  $200/month.

	


 

  



See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

Hello All:



I recommend scrap building as the way to build for nearly free (except the

engine).  But it will be a long while before you fly.  So in the meantime,

start or join a flying club like ours and be a active pilot the entire time

you build.



http://www.eaa163.com/club/index.htm



We currently have four memberships available.



Buy in at $1000.00

Yearly dues $200.00

Fly at $45.00/wet tach time (we have no hobbs).



Regards,



Randy, Las Vegas

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your money.  We do use the heads that come off the engine but they need new guides put in the  and anything less than what falcon does IMO shouldn't be in airplanes. The crank  will need to be tapped for the safety shaft and nitrated so the cost for all the  machine work is around 300.00 so whichever crank you use it will cost you the  same because the 209 crank will need to be tapped unless you are doing that  yourself. Look I build aircraft that anyone would feel safe in I don't cut  corners and I don't risk lives to save a buck so build yours how you want but  please do your homework first.   This is my last post on this  subject 

  

  

 In a message dated 10/3/2007 3:28:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Most of    the line items I would be interested in would be the internal engine parts.    Still, I don't see heads listed on there, nor would I expect them to be. That    being the case, why replace the jugs but not the heads. If anything it would    be the other way around. If the heads are ok, I don't see any reason the jugs    would need to be replaced. Hone them lightly, caliper them, if they look ok no    need to spend another $350 	


 

  



See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith building expense

I guess, you can get a really long string, and some soup cans for cheap

and then you'll have a communication device as well.  In fact you can

do this for an intercom as well. 



I think mid-thirties is a reasonable minimum number for a builder to 

spend.



I put an injected Continental in my Kitfox, and filled the panel with stuff

by King and Garmin, I spent mid-sixties on it. I expect I will invest a

similar amount in my 801 when it is done. I could have built the plane

with a lot less, but I would have a lot less plane as well.



Jeff

psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

Hi Randy,



What a great idea.  It sounds like a wonderful excuse for me to go to 

Las Vegas and play poker along with flying the club airplane.



I suppose you want me to have a medical certificate to fly the 172, 

though.  Oh well, I guess I'll just finish my XL and fly it as a 

broken old man with Sport Pilot privileges.  With any luck it will be 

ready to go in 6 months or so.



Best regards,



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive

At 01:05 PM 10/3/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hello All:



I recommend scrap building as the way to build for nearly free (except the

engine).  But it will be a long while before you fly.  So in the meantime,

start or join a flying club like ours and be a active pilot the entire time

you build.



http://www.eaa163.com/club/index.htm



We currently have four memberships available.



Buy in at $1000.00

Yearly dues $200.00

Fly at $45.00/wet tach time (we have no hobbs).



Regards,



Randy, Las Vegas

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

All-

      I agree absolutely with  the other Bill. You can easily make your own Corvair parts if you have a  Bridgeport and lathe at your disposal. When I was growing up, I had access to a  full machine shop two steps out of the living room door. Now I don't. I could  probably build an AirCorvair for less than $2K then, but that was  then.

     Now I'm at 5K+ and  counting. Feces occurs.

     The point I'm trying to  make is this. The degree of "Scratchbuilding" you can pull off is dependent  on the tools you have available to use. Some tools, such as  "Daves Brake" will require little investment yet save you  thousands. Investing in a full machine shop is another story. If you  already have access, I agree, you can do it.

     

                                   Do not archive.

 Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuse/Corvair

Townville, Pa

 [quote]   ---

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

 	  Quote: 	
		   What a great idea.  It sounds like a wonderful excuse for me to go to Las 

 Vegas and play poker along with flying the club airplane.


	


Hard to say which is the bigger gamble!



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I suppose you want me to have a medical certificate to fly the 172,


	


A lot of pilots sell their airplanes because they loose their medical.  My 

Pal Bob says that's the time to buy your own airplane, because nobody will 

rent to you anymore!



Randy, Las Vegas  do not archive

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

This sounds like good advice but I have a problem send money to a PO Box  and not being able to reach a person. Last week I was able to spend some time in  Daytona Beach, Fla. and thought this would be a great time to pickup the manual  from WW. Problem was I thought the hangar was outside Dayton mapquest could not  find the address. Tried calling two number, one was disconnected and the other  one told me to call another number. When I called it a machine told me  to leave a message and then disconnected me. So I sent an e-mail but still  have not heard from anyone. No sure I will buy from anyone I can not talk to!  There I got it off my chest.  SORRY   Jerry of Ga

  

  

 "You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your money."  





See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

Jeyoung, you apparently had some very old contact info for WW. Just go to  http://flycorvair.com/ for all current  information.

 [quote]   ---

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

That is where I got the addresses and phone number. Jerry of  Ga



See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith building expense

Hopefully I can do all that on my lather and milling machine.



[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your money.  We do use the heads that come off the engine but they need new guides put in the  and anything less than what falcon does IMO shouldn't be in airplanes. The crank  will need to be tapped for the safety shaft and nitrated so the cost for all the  machine work is around 300.00 so whichever crank you use it will cost you the  same because the 209 crank will need to be tapped unless you are doing that  yourself. Look I build aircraft that anyone would feel safe in I don't cut  corners and I don't risk lives to save a buck so build yours how you want but  please do your homework first.   This is my last post on this  subject 

  

  

 In a message dated 10/3/2007 3:28:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Most of    the line items I would be interested in would be the internal engine parts.    Still, I don't see heads listed on there, nor would I expect them to be. That    being the case, why replace the jugs but not the heads. If anything it would    be the other way around. If the heads are ok, I don't see any reason the jugs    would need to be replaced. Hone them lightly, caliper them, if they look ok no    need to spend another $350 	


 

  



See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith building expense

I agree, the fraction of the money is better spent on tools.



[quote="naumuk(at)alltel.net"]All-

      I agree absolutely with  the other Bill. You can easily make your own Corvair parts if you have a  Bridgeport and lathe at your disposal. When I was growing up, I had access to a  full machine shop two steps out of the living room door. Now I don't. I could  probably build an AirCorvair for less than $2K then, but that was  then.

     Now I'm at 5K+ and  counting. Feces occurs.

     The point I'm trying to  make is this. The degree of "Scratchbuilding" you can pull off is dependent  on the tools you have available to use. Some tools, such as  "Daves Brake" will require little investment yet save you  thousands. Investing in a full machine shop is another story. If you  already have access, I agree, you can do it.

     

                                   Do not archive.

 Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuse/Corvair

Townville, Pa

  	  Quote: 	
		     ---

rloer(at)aceweb.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Zenith building expense

-----

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Zenith building expense

From the top of the main page at flycorvair.com.



William Wynne

The Corvair Authority

5000-18 HWY 17 #247

Orange Park, FL 32003



This is his home address and he is no longer in the Edgewater FL hanger. That has been turned over to Gus. FOr details visit: http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html 

 	  Jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  That is where I got the addresses and phone number. Jerry of  Ga

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: Zenith building expense

In a message dated 10/4/2007 9:38:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html 



	


 

 Thanks Gig for the information. It filled in a lot of blank areas.   Jerry of Ga



See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Zenith building expense

Yeah, I could have saved even more money. I actually bought some 6061-T6 bar stock from Yard, took a day off to drive up to north jersey, only to find out that the same stuff was literally 600 feet down the street at Fastenals. LOL



do not archive



[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]Yarde Metals is still cheaper than Aircraft Spruce and they pack the material very nicely.  You will need to purchase 5 to 8 sheet at a time in order to take advantage of their better pricing.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami, Florida

Read this topic online  	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: Zenith building expense

I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere.

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Zenith building expense

The only thing I wasn't excited about them was that they were a bit limited on the aluminum sheet front. Not a lot to choose from. If they had that going for them that'd be awesome, a metal supermarket right down the street from me at competitive prices. I did manage to score some 5052 for my fuel tanks from them.



do not archive



 	  planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote: 	
		  I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere.

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: Zenith building expense

my local branches were willing to bring in the sheet sizes needed if they could come in at their convenience.

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 2 of 3

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum