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R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: I Passed!

I just returned from the airport.  My Firestar KXP is now an airworthy and official experimental light sport aircraft.  The DAR was thorough, but found no squawks on the plane an only one date missing on the paperwork.   I'm glad I spent the money on the EAA transition kit.  It was helpful.  I gave him $250 and he gave me a pink slip and five hours to fly off within 50 miles of the field.



I took it around the pattern twice to celebrate before a rain squall prompted me to fold and head home.  It was nice to be "Experimental 1782 Charlie" instead of "yellow ultralight". I had taken out a lot of the junk I usually pack around with me (extra water and such) and drained the fuel tanks to get my true empty weight.  With only four gallons of gas and 50deg air temps, my climb rate settled on 1300fpm (at) 50mph on both takeoffs. YeeeeHahhh!



The DAR said the FAA is recieving over two hundred N number applications a day right now.  He has inspected more than 20 planes in my neck of the woods and has several more on the schedule for this weekend.  The FAA inspector in Portland (on the other side of the state from me) said he is inspecting ten planes a week or more.



Later,

_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

John Williamson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: Re: I Passed!

Way to go Roger!



We do have one problem. 

Your statement "It was nice to be "Experimental 1782 Charlie" instead of "yellow ultralight." is incorrect. 



Your callsign should be "Kolb 1782 Charlie" all the time with one addition. When you call an ATC Tower on initial callup you add "Experimental" to the end of your callsign then omit "Experimental" on subsequent contacts. 



See Aeronautical Information Manual section 4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/



Yes, these Kolb's do quite well when lightly loaded. I got to showboat a lot at TNK Homecoming.

_________________
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: Re: I Passed!

 	  John Williamson wrote: 	
		  Way to go Roger!



 

Your callsign should be "Kolb 1782 Charlie" all the time with one addition. When you call an ATC Tower on initial callup you add "Experimental" to the end of your callsign then omit "Experimental" on subsequent contacts. 



 



Yes, these Kolb's do quite well when lightly loaded. I got to showboat a lot at TNK Homecoming. 	




Roger:



I know what you are going through.  I used experimental for years.  Then John W straightened me out.  I am Kolb 101AB.  Occassionally, I stick experimental on the end when I go into a towered field.



Congratulations!  Now you can stop looking over your shoulder when you fly out of those "citified" airports.  Flying out of Rock House Field, I would not worry too much about an FAA inspector.

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Saturday afternoon at TNK. The Kolbs provided shade from the sun. Wish all of you could have shared the fun and excitement with us.

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JB is still leading.

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John Bickham leads John Williamson, somewhere over North Alabama or Southern Tennessee.

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: I Passed!

This darn program sent my post before I got the photo of the welcoming committee posted.



Anyhow, when I was on short final to Gantt Internationa Airport, I noticed the whole crew was out to meet me.   They decided they would wait where I normally stop the airplane and disembark.  There must have been 20 momma cows and babies under the tree.  Some of the calves were probably a day or two old.  Got their first introduction to aviation.

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Part of my welcome home committee.

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: I Passed!

John W,

Thanks for the link and the lesson, "Kolb 1782 Charlie" it is.  Makes sense.  When I used to fly 172's it was always "Cessna 1556 Foxtrot."  Guess I should have checked the AIM instead of mimicking the locals.  I also enjoyed your movies from the Kolb homecoming.



John H,

Nice welcoming committee.  In a former life I used to live on a ranch with 600 pairs of those beautiful Charolais.  I fly back there now and then.  One must beware the land mines lest one find oneself with green stripes on the bottom of the wings.  It will be nice not looking over my shoulder on the ramp or doing 360s to wait for the "real" airplanes in the pattern.



Take Care,

_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: I Passed!

In years past, trying to burn off some remaining VA money taking  

lessons for commercial,

I was entering a towered airport with an instructor. I used "Piper"  

*****U and he castigated me

for not saying "Cherokee".  If'n it's ok in a J3 it should be equally  

good in the spam can.

-He was a jerk anyway.   I ended up getting a commercial the only way  

you could then

with no instrument rating.... rotary wing.



rum rum rum, quick stops are fun.

BB  do not archive

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: I Passed!

Your callsign should be "Kolb 1782 Charlie" all the time with one addition. When you call an ATC Tower on initial callup you add "Experimental" to the end of your callsign then omit "Experimental" on subsequent contacts. 



See Aeronautical Information Manual section 4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs. 

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/ 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeell, it seems as though there is a bit of conflict here. I haven't read the aforementioned FAR since it is far too early to go to sleep yet. My Eperimental operating limitations, given to me states "tHE PILOT IN COMMAND OF THIS AIRCRAFT MUST NOTIFY AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL OF THE EXPERIMENTAL NATURE OF THIS AIRCRAFT WHEN OPERATING INTO OR OUT OF AIRPORTS WITH AN OPERATIONAL CONTROL TOWER."

Legal Larry, Or.

_________________
do not archive

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: I Passed!

What's all this?

When you say "Kolb 1234 Alpha Experimental"  on  initial callup, you  

ARE  telling ATC  you're experimental.

What could be  more obvious?

A bit of conflict? Where??



On Oct 10, 2007, at 8:13 PM, lcottrell wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Your callsign should be "Kolb 1782 Charlie" all the time with one  

 addition. When you call an ATC Tower on initial callup you add  

 "Experimental" to the end of your callsign then omit "Experimental"  

 on subsequent contacts.



 See Aeronautical Information Manual section 4-2-4. Aircraft Call  

 Signs.

 http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ 

 ATpubs/AIM/

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

 -----------

 Weeeeeeeeeeeeeell, it seems as though there is a bit of conflict  

 here. I haven't read the aforementioned FAR since it is far too  

 early to go to sleep yet. My Eperimental operating limitations,  

 given to me states "tHE PILOT IN COMMAND OF THIS AIRCRAFT MUST  

 NOTIFY AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL OF THE EXPERIMENTAL NATURE OF THIS  

 AIRCRAFT WHEN OPERATING INTO OR OUT OF AIRPORTS WITH AN OPERATIONAL  

 CONTROL TOWER."

 Legal Larry, Or.



 --------

 do not archive





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rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: I Passed!

I don't dispute the AIM giving the example of using "experimental" at the end of the first contact, and eliminating it afterwards... however...  My CFI explained to me that there are so many experimental aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in the pattern wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is), so, rather than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point of air traffic communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign.  The entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- accepted by ATC.  Other aircraft in the pattern that were experimentals would usually do the same.  The occasional Vans or Lancair might use their model as their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much known to all.  So, while my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing that clarity and simplicity are two very important qualities in air traffic communication. 



  -- Robert



On 10/10/07, lcottrell <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com (lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lcottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com (lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com)>



Your callsign should be "Kolb 1782 Charlie" all the time with one addition. When you call an ATC Tower on initial callup you add "Experimental" to the end of your callsign then omit "Experimental" on subsequent contacts. 



See Aeronautical Information Manual section 4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/ 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeell, it seems as though there is a bit of conflict here. I haven't read the aforementioned FAR since it is far too early to go to sleep yet. My Eperimental operating limitations, given to me states "tHE PILOT IN COMMAND OF THIS AIRCRAFT MUST NOTIFY AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL OF THE EXPERIMENTAL NATURE OF THIS AIRCRAFT WHEN OPERATING INTO OR OUT OF AIRPORTS WITH AN OPERATIONAL CONTROL TOWER." 

Legal Larry, Or.



--------

do not archive





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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139296#139296 =          - The Kolb-L://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List          - NEW MATRONICS WEB F=======================



[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

John Williamson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: I Passed!

Robert and All,



As you stated: "My CFI explained to me that there are so many experimental aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in the pattern wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is), so, rather than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point of air traffic communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign. The entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- accepted by ATC. Other aircraft in the pattern that were experimentals would usually do the same. The occasional Vans or Lancair might use their model as their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much known to all. So, while my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing that clarity and simplicity are two very important qualities in air traffic communication. -- Robert "



Just because you were taught incorrectly is not a reason to perpetuate the incorrect phraseology. For more clarification you can go to FAA Order 7110.65 and to FAA Order 7340.1.



It  is always correct to do it by the books.

_________________
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: I Passed!

Geez, John!  I respect your experience, piloting skills, choice of aircraft, your web site, etc., but you're gonna throw "the book" at me?  Over this?  Like most governmental documents, you can easily find places it contradicts and/or obscures itself...  AIM  4-2-4.a.3 "Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model OR manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number."  Aircraft type for experimental, FAA Order 7110.65, Appendix C, "Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of 100 knots or less [are type] HXA" 



So, it would seem perfectly CORRECT call signs would include



  Kolb MkIII one-two-three Alpha   (model)

  HXA one-two-three Alpha   (type)



and since I'm the manufacturer, according to the official FAA Special Airworthiness Certificate, then it would be -correct- to say 



  Laird Robert one-two-three Alpha



or maybe they meant the type certificate, so, of "normal, utility, acrobatic, transport, glider, restricted, surplus or import" I'd have to choose



Normal one-two-three Alpha 



And, as the example previously noted pointed out, I could (first time) add "Experimental" to any of those.



Frankly, I think if an ATC or pilot were presented with any of those, they'd be confused, or at least MORE confused than simply  



Experimental one-two-three Alpha



After all,  AIM 4-2-1.b  "The single, most important thought in pilot-controller communications is understanding." so using any of the -correct- methods may be be the proper method de jure, but de facto they contradict the "single most important thought" as per the FAA. 



And, besides, if it's good enough for most CFIs I've met, a large number of air traffic controllers sitting in an active tower over a period of years, and an even larger number of experimental pilots flying in more towered airports than I could visit in a lifetime, then it's good enough for me. 



  -- Robert

On 10/10/07, John Williamson <kolbrapilot1(at)tx.rr.com (kolbrapilot1(at)tx.rr.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot1(at)tx.rr.com (kolbrapilot1(at)tx.rr.com)>



Robert and All,



As you stated: "My CFI explained to me that there are so many experimental aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in the pattern wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is), so, rather than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point of air traffic communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign. The entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- accepted by ATC. Other aircraft in the pattern that were experimentals would usually do the same. The occasional Vans or Lancair might use their model as their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much known to all. So, while my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing that clarity and simplicity are two very important qualities in air traffic communication. -- Robert " 



Just because you were taught incorrectly is not a reason to perpetuate the incorrect phraseology. For more clarification you can go to FAA Order 7110.65 and to FAA Order 7240.1.



It  is always correct to do it by the books. 



--------

John Williamson

Arlington, TX



Kolbra, 912ULS

http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot





Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139316#139316

        - The Kolb-List Email Forumronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">  content now also available via the Web Forums! =====================



[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: I Passed!

May times when I say KOLB I have to repeat it and then Kilo-Oscar-Lemia-Bravo it and once I'm done with all that they aren't any more informed than they were if I'd of left it all out. Why do they need to know the type plane? Speed range and/or weight?

 [quote]  Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:58:56 -0500

From: rlaird(at)cavediver.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: I Passed!

Geez, John!  I respect your experience, piloting skills, choice of aircraft, your web site, etc., but you're gonna throw "the book" at me?  Over this?  Like most governmental documents, you can easily find places it contradicts and/or obscures itself...  AIM 4-2-4.a.3 "Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model OR manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number."  Aircraft type for experimental, FAA Order 7110.65, Appendix C, "Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of 100 knots or less [are type] HXA" 

So, it would seem perfectly CORRECT call signs would include

  Kolb MkIII one-two-three Alpha   (model)

  HXA one-two-three Alpha   (type)

and since I'm the manufacturer, according to the official FAA Special Airworthiness Certificate, then it would be -correct- to say 

  Laird Robert one-two-three Alpha

or maybe they meant the type certificate, so, of "normal, utility, acrobatic, transport, glider, restricted, surplus or import" I'd have to choose

Normal one-two-three Alpha 

And, as the example previously noted pointed out, I could (first time) add "Experimental" to any of those.

Frankly, I think if an ATC or pilot were presented with any of those, they'd be confused, or at least MORE confused than simply 

Experimental one-two-three Alpha

After all,  AIM 4-2-1.b  "The single, most important thought in pilot-controller communications is understanding." so using any of the -correct- methods may be be the proper method de jure, but de facto they contradict the "single most important thought" as per the FAA. 

And, besides, if it's good enough for most CFIs I've met, a large number of air traffic controllers sitting in an active tower over a period of years, and an even larger number of experimental pilots flying in more towered airports than I could visit in a lifetime, then it's good enough for me. 

  -- Robert

 On 10/10/07, John Williamson <kolbrapilot1(at)tx.rr.com (kolbrapilot1(at)tx.rr.com)> wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot1(at)tx.rr.com (kolbrapilot1(at)tx.rr.com)>

Robert and All,

As you stated: "My CFI explained to me that there are so many experimental aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in the pattern wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is), so, rather than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point of air traffic communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign. The entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- accepted by ATC. Other aircraft in the pattern that were experimentals would usually do the same. The occasional Vans or Lancair might use their model as their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much known to all. So, while my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing that clarity and simplicity are two very important qualities in air traffic communication. -- Robert " 

Just because you were taught incorrectly is not a reason to perpetuate the incorrect phraseology. For more clarification you can go to FAA Order 7110.65 and to FAA Order 7240.1.

It  is always correct to do it by the books. 

--------

John Williamson

Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS

http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139316#139316

        - The Kolb-List Email Forumronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"> content now also available via the Web Forums! =====================

get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

p://forums.matronics.com

[b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: I Passed!

Let me weigh in from the other side of  the tower glass. What the controller needs to know is how to separate you from  whoever else, so he/she needs to know what you are, what you look like and what  you act like. If you want to resolve that once and for all, go to the airport  and shoot touch & goes every day at the same time for five days in a row.  Every controller in the facility will know who and what you are.

  

 When you call ATC, use the 4 W's,  

 Who I is

 What I is

 Where I is

 What I wants.

  

 As in "Dingbat tower (Approach,  whatever), Kolb three two zero Charlie, Experimental, (position) with  information Delta, (altitude) (intentions). For all subsequent transmissions,  leave off the Experimental.

  

 If they want to know the speed, let  them ask you. If you have a transponder, they can see your ground speed readout,  so they don't need to ask.

  

 If you ever get a newbie controller who  has had too much nose time in the books, and not enough in real life, you might  get asked something like "What is the nature of the experiment?"

 The proper response is "Amateur built,  to see if it will fly!"

  

 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 Retired ATC

  

 PS - Keep up the good work JW, you are  a real asset!

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: I Passed!

Kilo-Oscar-Lemia-Bravo >>   Lemia?  Is this a typo or do you have a different alphabet as well as a  different language?

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat   

   [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: I Passed!

It  is always correct to do it by the books.>.



Carramba John,

do you have a military  or a Civil Administration background?



That sounds pretty much like `never mind if it is a reasonable thing to do I 

have covered my back`

Cheers



Pat

Dave Bigelow

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: Re: I Passed!

The whole point of using a prefix in front of your "N number" call sign is to let other traffic and ATC know something about your aircraft (speed, etc).  Everyone knows what a Cessna or Piper is, but few know what a Kolb, Flightstar, Challenger, etc is.



When I fly my glider, I don't use "DG400 7WN" as a call sign.  I say "Glider 7WN" or "Sailplane 7WN".  Who in the world would know to give way to me because I'm a glider if I don't tell them with the call sign?



Same thing with my Firestar when I finish the ELSA certification within the next couple of weeks.  I'll use "Light Sport 7DB" as my call sign, and add "experimental" as a suffix on initial contact with a tower.  I expect as more and more pilots and ATC get familiar with Light Sport aircraft flying around, the prefix will end up being shortened to "Sport 7DB" by most controllers.

_________________
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: I Passed!

Then for ultralights it's another whole can of worms.  Somewhere I saw a 

reference to using your radio station license number if you don't have an 

N-number, but you don't need a station license any more.  I could use the 

USUA assigned number (one two delta mike hotel) but with three letters it's 

obviously not an N-number.  I guess I'll just use "Kolb Ultralight" and 

leave it at that.



A totally irrelevant anecdote... years ago I used to go flying with a 

friend who owned an American (later Grumman) AA-1 Yankee.  Nice little 

bird, actually started life as the Bede (yes, _that_ Bede) BD-1, but I 

digress... Actually the aircraft model name was "Trainer", and the number 

was N9FA.  Yes, very odd to have such a short N-number on a production 

airplane, I have no idea why.  When he announced "Trainer nine fox alpha" 

sometimes people figured he must be some kind of big shot and gave him the 

red carpet treatment.



				-Dana

--

--

But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles?

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:45 am Post subject: I Passed!

Two countries divided by a common language. Wasn't that how Churchill put it, Pat?



Rick



On 10/11/07, pat ladd < pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" < pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)>



It  is always correct to do it by the books.>.



Carramba John,

do you have a military  or a Civil Administration background?



 

[b]

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: I Passed!

Dana, For ultralights, it's FAR 103.17



Rick



On 10/11/07, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague < d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>



Then for ultralights it's another whole can of worms.  Somewhere I saw a

reference to using your radio station license number if you don't have an

N-number, but you don't need a station license any more.  I could use the 

USUA assigned number (one two delta mike hotel) but with three letters it's

obviously not an N-number.  I guess I'll just use "Kolb Ultralight" and

leave it at that.



A totally irrelevant anecdote... years ago I used to go flying with a 

friend who owned an American (later Grumman) AA-1 Yankee.  Nice little

bird, actually started life as the Bede (yes, _that_ Bede) BD-1, but I

digress... Actually the aircraft model name was "Trainer", and the number 

was N9FA.  Yes, very odd to have such a short N-number on a production

airplane, I have no idea why.  When he announced "Trainer nine fox alpha"

sometimes people figured he must be some kind of big shot and gave him the 



[b]

John Williamson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: Re: I Passed! AKA Calllsigns

The correct callsign construction is:



Drop the "N' and insert the Make or Model (the only time you would use your manufacture name as an EAB is on a "My Own Design" aircraft).



Add the "experimental" at the end of the callsign on initial contact with an Air Traffic Control Tower.



You can shorten the callsign to what ever the ATCT calls you but not before.



FAA Order 7110.65 lists all the type certficated aircraft and the three generic Type Designators for Homebuilt/Experimental aircraft. The type designator has nothing to do with your callsign, it's used on the flight plan. 



FAA Order 7340.1 lists all the aircraft by manufacurers that have applied for and been assigned a type designator. Yes Kolb is listed as a manufacturer but only the Laser is assigned a type designator (the MarkIII was dropped from the list about 3 years ago).



As an aside, no you can't use Laird, it is already being used. It has been an accepted practice to use the name of the plans or kit manufacturer and not the name of the person listed as the Manufacturer on the Data Plate for a long time.



Yes, I have a military background.

Yes, I have a commercial aviation background.

Yes, I spent 4 years with the FAA in Atlanta.

Yes, I am a CFI and I am always trying to get people to fly and operate by "a book".

_________________
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

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