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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use of one of their engines in a homebuilt. 



There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft.

 	  Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  

 Come out of your shell man.

 On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think that  GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation of your own risk  and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published design parameters??

 You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come off  and smite you.

 Jesus H. Farkin Christ.

  

 Joe Motis

 Do not archive

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

dougsnash(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

An example of this is when I went to the local Ski-Doo

dealer to by some recoil parts for my 503 Rotax

ultrlight engine.  He said "These aren't going on an

aircraft, are they?" Wink Wink.



He explained that Ski-Doo forbade them to sell Ski-Doo

parts for ultralight aircraft engines.  Makes no sense

to me but those are the rules.



Doug MacDonald

NW Ontario, Canada



--- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>

 

 Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit,

 otherwise known as the USA. BUT, I never said they

 would would be found liable for the use of one of

 their engines in a homebuilt. 

 

 There are vendors of parts out there that will not

 ship you their auto parts if they have reason to

 think you are putting them in an aircraft.

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

At the rate I'm going, I might live to see one!!!

                                        do not archive

Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuse/Corvair

Townville, Pa

---

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.

This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high

school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ever

met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they

thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! 



Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very

disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about 

being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly 

worried  about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception.



The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about

anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviation

Use" note on some of their muffler's.



I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and

verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might decide 

to not sell the parts to you ...  But after you leave they might be calling 

911 as well ... 



Jeff



 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use of one of their engines in a homebuilt. 



There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft.

 	  Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  

 Come out of your shell man.

 On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think that  GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation of your own risk  and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published design parameters??

 You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come off  and smite you.

 Jesus H. Farkin Christ.

  

 Joe Motis

 Do not archive

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

I've got a super trapp on my engine ,help's the with the tuning works 

great... I developed and sold the frist cordless miter saw back in 1996,used 

the DEWALT cordless skillsaw for power,  improvrd it to do more thing's 

better! took their name off of the motor  asumed all responsibility for it 

and all they did was rattle they're saber's and whine like a bitch, Oh! I 

almost forgot,They (DEWALT) bought one on what they thought was the sly,to 

look it over.The fact is, when you buy some thing it's yours to do with what 

ever you chose, you can add to or take away from it what ever IT'S YOURS!... 

They make good tools ,but the people that run the co. are a bunch of pencil 

neck  Tool Nazi's and think just because that they didn't think of it, it 

should not be possible..Then there'n Harley Davison,  we bought there 

engine's developed a re-drive ,made it work in a airplane,but we couldn't 

call our co." HOG-AIR"THEY owned the word" Hog" we didn't want to spend the 

money fighting them so we let the pigs have the hog word back..Just a 

WARNING don't us the word hog with anything like hog-wash,sweat hog 

,hog -shit hog heaven, hog wild,hog trough,(the farmer's could be in real 

trouble with that one) hog feed ,hog farmer, hog breath, hog -roast,  ect 

you must be careful the Hog- Patrol is out there!   NOW are you ready for 

this!! The man that designed,and built the Supper Trapp mufler, sold his 

conpany for over 7 million dollars, did so ,so that he could further his 

life goal of building a" Flying Car" that he's been working on for over 40 

years.... How about those "Apples" DO NOT USE ON AIRECRAFT !, Mabye some one 

should call 911!,but for  who????                                   Joe 

N101HD601XL/RAM         (now you know what HD in N101HD stands for)  We had 

reserved the no . 102HD,103HD,104HD,105HD,but my UNCLE took them for " 

Homeland Defense"

---

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

I can say for fact that Summit Racing supply will not sell me anything if I even mention " experimental aircraft". I have got that response from several of their order takers so it is a protocol they must stress on their employees. I called one day to order about 1000.00 bucks worth of MSD ignition stuff for my toy and they refused to sell it to me. I then called Jegs high performance and they not only were hip on the idea of an auto engine in a plane the guy actually went to my website while I was on the phone with him and  he came back with a "GEEZ" that is KOOL..... Both vendors were within a few cents of each other on price and from then on Jegs got all my business, and still does.  Just my two cents worth... 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com

-- "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>

This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high

school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ever

met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they

thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! 

Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very

disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about 

being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly 

worried  about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception.

The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about

anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviation

Use" note on some of their muffler's.

I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and

verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might decide 

to not sell the parts to you ...  But after you leave they might be calling 

911 as well ... 

Jeff

Gig Giacona wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use of one of their engines in a homebuilt. 

 There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft.

 Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote:

 > 

 >  Come out of your shell man.

 >  On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think that  GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation of your own risk  and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published design parameters??

 >  You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come off  and smite you.

 >  Jesus H. Farkin Christ.

 >   

 >  Joe Motis

 >  Do not archive

 > 

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/view================================================================================================bsp;        - NEW MATRONICS WEB =========================================================

   [quote][b]

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Ben, in retrospect, that happend to us on the  harley eng. The harley ignition would not work because we didn't have a speed-o  or turn signals on our 601, so we had to find a new source  The BIG   well known manufacture in Daytona Beach couldn't sell us because, LEGAL DEPT.  said no So we went to manu. in California, they said "great,"Cool ,  That  will show how  good we are . Our ignition in a airplane. How can we  help ?" Scared money never won  nothing"                                 Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM

 [quote]   ---

Joemotis(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

I feel that if anyone were not to sell you anything because "they" do not  want to for whatever reason  and then sell it to the next person who walks  through the door is discrimination by the dictionary definition. Where  would the line be? No sale of anything that could be used on your aircraft would  start at about "alternator and go to at least z clips. 

  

 An experimental aircraft is just that. 

 Also, stamping not for aircraft use means absolutely nothing. It is similar  to the people that want to see your receipt when you walk out the door at some  Home Depots. I say "no thanks" because it is mine I paid for it and it is none  of your damn business. Including looking at the receipt which is also my  property. The burden of responsibility passed when the store took my money in  exchange for the goods and the receipt.

  

 If you buy a toaster and make toast while soaking in the tub, your  electrocution ain't Proctor/ Silex's fault...

  

  



See what's new [quote][b]

dwilde(at)clearwire.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Orchards Supply has aircraft cable for sale by the foot.  They also have 

a sign that says "not for aircraft use".



Dan Wilde

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

You are 100% correct......

 [quote]   ---

Joemotis(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Is it written in Chinese also , I only read Chinese.

 A sign is a weak defense at best even in attractive nuisance situations  involving children.

 Does their sign also mean I cannot hang my 1/4 scale P 38 Lightning from  the rafters because of their sign. It would clearly be for aircraft use. Or I  was pulling my 152 out of a mud

 hole and it snapped? Or I built a prop lock and someone stole the airplane  and tried to fly with it on and crashed? Or I made tie downs and they broke  in a windstorm.? When you buy a car is their a sign telling you not to run over  people??

 Joe Motis

 Do not archive



See wh [quote][b]

shilcom

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 63

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Is the Harley engine still offered on the 601 and  what is the company called if you are still doing the conversions.  Bob U.  

 [quote]   ---

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

You can talk to brett(at) skyRay .com , I think he's  still selling engs and re -drive packages , not sure. I'am not part of it  any more.     Joe N101HD

 [quote]   ---

dougsnash(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:48 am Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Yes but bt be very careful with that one.  There is

"Aircraft Cable" and then there is cable that meets a

Mil spec and is designed for use in an aircraft.  BIG

difference in quality.



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada



--- Dan <dwilde(at)clearwire.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <dwilde(at)clearwire.net>

 

 Orchards Supply has aircraft cable for sale by the

 foot.  They also have 

 a sign that says "not for aircraft use".

 

 Dan Wilde


	


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Mike Hoffman

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 54

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Several years ago I tried to buy wheel bearings for my PA 28R200 from Detroit Ball Bearing Company and was refused. They told me they would not sell to the aviation community because of liability issues. I came back the next day and when they asked what they were for, I told them they were for a home made go cart and they sold them to me.

Trainnut01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:39 am Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Joe

  

 Problem is if you do run over someone the ensuing law suit will probably  include you, the car manufacturer, the dealer that sold you the car, the  salesman, the contractor that painted the crosswalk, the traffic light  installer, ect,ect,ect.

  

 My company was a co-defendant with Chrysler Corp and a local Jeep dealer a  few years ago when a Wrangler on which I had installed an air  conditioner was hit from behind at a traffic light. The argument was that  with the air conditioner on the vehicle it would not accelerate as fast as it  did before. DUH!

  

 The court finally ruled the lawsuit was "without merit" mostly thanks to  some heavyweight lawyers and

 expert witnesses provided by Chrysler.

  

 So see the system works. I got justice. Price for my defense $8,000.00.  Initial profit on the air conditioner $187.00.

  

 Chrysler lost money. Dealer lost money. I lost money. Plaintiff lost  money.

 Guess who made money:Chrysler's attorneys, Dealer's attorneys' My  attorneys, Plaintiff's attorney.

  

 In addition that dealer will no longer sell a new Wrangler with aftermarket  air. They now include the air in the price of the vehicle and issue you a refund  check for the air conditioner which just happens to be the exact amount  that I charge to install the air. This takes them out of the loop they  hope. Chrysler no longer sells aftermarket air conditions for their vehicles.  The Chrysler air conditioner is still  available from aftermarket suppliers (re-packagers) but the price has  doubled.

  

 Sorry seems my quick comment has turned into a rant about something that  American's understand anyway. For our friends around the world who do not  understand this lawsuit stupidity, I hope you never do! But if you would really  would like to try we can look into exporting some attorneys for you.

  

 Carroll

  

 do not archive



See wh [quote][b]

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Ben,

When I call Summit Racing, I say - "Yes, I'd like to order part numbers

this, that and the other. My credit card number is ..." They ship me the

part. I have NEVER had them refuse anything, and everything I have

ever bought from them went into my plane. 

Is it. possibly that you do it like this? ""Yes, I'd like to order part numbers

this, that and the other. My credit card number is ... OH, AND BY THE

IT IS TO BE USED IN AN EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT."

Because if you are, that might be the reason.  Anyway, how does it 

come up, what it's for anyway??? You would almost have to go out of

your way to get the order taking folks to ask. Especially from Summit

because they have a set of cubicals with order takers, who answer a 

bank of phones ...

Jeff

[quote="n801bh(at)netzero.com"]I can say for fact that Summit Racing supply will not sell me anything if I even mention " experimental aircraft". I have got that response from several of their order takers so it is a protocol they must stress on their employees. I called one day to order about 1000.00 bucks worth of MSD ignition stuff for my toy and they refused to sell it to me. I then called Jegs high performance and they not only were hip on the idea of an auto engine in a plane the guy actually went to my website while I was on the phone with him and  he came back with a "GEEZ" that is KOOL..... Both vendors were within a few cents of each other on price and from then on Jegs got all my business, and still does.? Just my two cents worth... 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com

-- "n85ae" <n85ae> wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n85ae" <n85ae>

This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high

school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ever

met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they

thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! 

Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very

disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about 

being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly 

worried ?about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception.

The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about

anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviation

Use" note on some of their muffler's.

I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and

verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might decide 

to not sell the parts to you ...  But after you leave they might be calling 

911 as well ... 

Jeff

Gig Giacona wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use of one of their engines in a homebuilt. 

 There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft.

 Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote:

 > 

 > ?Come out of your shell man.

 >  On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think that  GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation of your own risk  and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published design parameters??

 >  You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come off  and smite you.

 >  Jesus H. Farkin Christ.

 >   

 >  Joe Motis

 >  Do not archive

 > 

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/view================================================================================================bsp;        - NEW MATRONICS WEB =========================================================

    	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

Just order what ever you want on-line.  I've done it many times and yet have 

had the computer ask if it's going on airplane.  Just remember this, "Don't 

ask a question you don't want answered."



Larry

---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.

See there's the problem. You are under the mistaken belief that discrimination is against the law in the USA. It isn't. Only certain types of discrimination are illegal and those are based on age, sex, race, religion, disability and national origin.



While many of our wives and friends might think our aircraft building activities rise to the level of religion and certainly rise to the level of disability the law, sadly does not.



 	  Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  I feel that if anyone were not to sell you anything because "they" do not  want to for whatever reason  and then sell it to the next person who walks  through the door is discrimination by the dictionary definition. Where  would the line be? No sale of anything that could be used on your aircraft would  start at about "alternator and go to at least z clips.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.

In a message dated 10/12/2007 10:20:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Only    certain types of discrimination are illegal and those are based on age, sex,    race, religion, disability and national origin.

	


 

 This should be  "USA laws REQUIRE discrimination based on age,  sex, race, religion, disability and national origin"  Jerry of  GA



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