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Lifters and stuck valves

 
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GrummanDude



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

I'm surprised no one wrote in to comment on what I found.

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Gary
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jamey



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

It was my plane so I already had the chat with you. I also helped you clean
the lifters for #3 which were binding so you've got no arguments from me:)

Jamey

AA5B N72T (at) KSQL (okay, AUN for cylinders)
A36 N7218R (at) KSQL

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gilalex(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

Gary... doesn't SB388C also call out a cleaning of the lifters at the
same time as the infamous "wobble check"??

If so, should be done every 400 hrs (old cylinders...) ....gil in Tucson

[quote]--


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

TeamGrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
Quote:


I'm surprised no one wrote in to comment on what I found.


OK, I'll comment,


If the tappets are varnished and carbon-coated, doesn't that also imply
a temperature problem? Or are they generally like this when
disassembled? (Maybe I should leave out the "or", given the temperature
problems so common to our Lycomings.)

When the old cylinders on the Cheetah failed the wobble check at 400
hours SOH, the #4 cylinder also had out-of-tolerance DTC on the exhaust
valve due to a tuliped and eroded valve head. More over-temperature
damage, I suspect.

- Geoff Hickey -
Cheetah N26681


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

TeamGrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
Quote:


I'm surprised no one wrote in to comment on what I found.


OK, I'll comment,


If the tappets are varnished and carbon-coated, doesn't that also imply
a temperature problem? Or are they generally like this when
disassembled? (Maybe I should leave out the "or", given the temperature
problems so common to our Lycomings.)

When the old cylinders on the Cheetah failed the wobble check at 400
hours SOH, the #4 cylinder also had out-of-tolerance DTC on the exhaust
valve due to a tuliped and eroded valve head. More over-temperature
damage, I suspect.

- Geoff Hickey -
Cheetah N26681


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GrummanDude



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

It's possible that is was heat. But, not very likely. My guess is it
wasn't flown enough. It did sit for a number of years. However, it has been
flown regularly for the last 4 years.

I'm wondering, Geoff, how many hours since Top? If your valves had been
heated to the point of melting, (going into the plastic range), there is a very
good chance the valve clearance was zero (or less).

The valve piece I found in the muffler had been heated to the point that most
of the valve seat mating surface had heat stress cracks in them.

I'm still going to be checking my valve tappet clearance every 100 hours or
so. Just in case.

Gary
PS, I can do that with my own plane.


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GrummanDude



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

In a message dated 2/20/06 7:04:33 PM, gilalex(at)earthlink.net writes:
Quote:
Gary... doesn't=A0=A0 SB388C also call out a cleaning of the lifters at the
same time as the infamous "wobble check"??

If so, should be done every 400 hrs (old cylinders...)=A0 ....gil=20in
Tucson


Well, yes, I guess it does. Hadn't thought of it.


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flyv35b(at)ashcreekwirele
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:00 am    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

Unless SB388C is different from SB388B in this regard (I don't think it is),
there is nothing that deals with cleaning or inspecting the hydraulic
lifters.

Cliff
---


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GrummanDude



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

In a message dated 2/21/06 6:01:12 AM, flyv35b(at)ashcreekwireless.com writes:
Quote:
Unless SB388C is different from SB388B in this regard (I don't think it
is),
there is nothing that deals with cleaning or inspecting the hydraulic
lifters


Part One, Paragraph 4

"4. All Engines: Remove push rods, shroud tubes and hydraulic tappet
assemblies. Disassemble tappet and clean as described in the applicable overhaul
manual."

The caveat is, the overhaul manual is vague on how to clean.

ALL of the lifters (tappets) in the engine I mentioned were stuck. Even
after bleeding the oil out of the tappets, I could NOT compress them; not even a
few thousanths of an inch. I have no doubt that the valves were not closing
like they should.

I soaked them in carburetor cleaner over night and that still did not loosen
them all up.

I'm still going to be looking closer at the dry tappet clearance in the
future.

Gary


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

You are so right Gary, I overlooked that paragraph!

Why where the lifter stuck? Varnished up, rusted or what?

Cliff
---


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jamey



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

Gary put me to work cleaning these up for #3 before we moved the plane to
Auburn so I believe I'm qualified (modulo my imperfect memory) to answer:)

They were varnished and once cleaned of this they seemed to work quite well
and there was no apparent corrosion or pitting on the two I worked with.

Jamey
AA5B N72T (the plane with the sticky lifters)
A36 N7218R

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GrummanDude



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:55 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

In a message dated 2/21/06 4:42:14 PM, jamey(at)jamescourtney.net writes:

Quote:
You are so right Gary, I overlooked that paragraph!

Why where the lifter stuck?=A0 Varnished up, rusted or what?

Cliff

They appeared to have varnish and carbon, similar to what you'd see on inside

of a rocker cover on an old car that had hundreds of thousands of miles on it
without changing the oil. Not sludgy. But, cake and baked on carbon and
varnish.

When I bought my plane, it had 1100 hours on it. 80 hours in the last 10
years. THe inside of the block had caked on sludge. It took hours to scrape
it off. I poured about 10 gallons of fuel through the engine to was as much
through as i could. The oil filter on the first few oil changes was pretty
full of junk. So was the oil screen.

The lifters and tappets didn't look that bad though.

Gary


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

Quote:

Part One, Paragraph 4

"4. All Engines: Remove push rods, shroud tubes and hydraulic tappet
assemblies. Disassemble tappet and clean as described in the applicable
overhaul
manual."

The caveat is, the overhaul manual is vague on how to clean.


My manual just says "use clean solvent" ... pretty generic...:
) gil A

Quote:
Gary


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Lifters and stuck valves Reply with quote

In a message dated 2/21/06 10:55:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
TeamGrumman(at)aol.com writes:

Quote:
I poured about 10 gallons of fuel through the engine to was as much
through as i could. The oil filter on the first few oil changes was
pretty

Quote:
full of junk. So was the oil screen.

The lifters and tappets didn't look that bad though.

Gary
=========================

Gary:

Fuel is a very POOR cleaning agent. And too expensive as well as flammable.
Try Mineral Spirits, it works VERY well. You can prove it to yourself by
cleaning an oil screen in gas and another in Mineral Spirits. The spirits will
have the oil totally disperse. Also, when you let the spirits sit for a while
the oil will separate from the spirits and you will have clean spirits to work
with again.

I know the engine was not run much, but this makes a good argument for MMO 1
hour before an oil change. MMO also cleans the tappets.

Barry
"Chop'd Liver"


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