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Splicing Tiny Wires...?

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PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

How are you guys splicing thin wires together...?



For example, where the 5 wires that come out of the aileron servo are spliced to another bundle of 5 wires.



I'm guessing that twisting them together, soldering, and then covering with heat-shrink tubing is the way to go.



Anybody doing anything different/better/easier...?



Thanks,



Patrick

XL/Corvair

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

I used small gauge crimp style insulated butt connectors from Radio Shack. They work fine if you have the right crimper for the job (also sold at Radio Shack).

On Oct 12, 2007, at 10:10 PM, PatrickW wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>

How are you guys splicing thin wires together...?

For example, where the 5 wires that come out of the aileron servo are spliced to another bundle of 5 wires.

I'm guessing that twisting them together, soldering, and then covering with heat-shrink tubing is the way to go.

Anybody doing anything different/better/easier...?

	






 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

DaveG601XL

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

Same here.  I have been using d-sub computer style connectors from Radio Shack.  Get your magnifying glass out!



Good luck,

_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area

GLJSOJ1

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

HI PATRICK



I ALSO USED CRIMPS TO SPLICE THOSE TINY WIRES.  I USED THE RED WHICH I BELIEVE IS 22-18G  WIRE, WHILE I THINK THESE WIRES ARE 24 G.  I HAVE HAD SOME OF THESE RED TERMINALS ON THESE WIRES COME OFF, SO I AM RETHINKING THEM.  ALSO RADIO SHACK SELLS A SMALLER YELLOW BUTT JOINT CONNECTOR FOR WIRES 26 TO 22 G.  YOU CAN'T DISCONNECT THESE ONCE THEY ARE CRIMPED THOUGH.



GLENN

_________________
601XL N676L FLYING PHASE I
CHESAPEAKE VA

psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

At 08:49 PM 10/12/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Same here.  I have been using d-sub computer style connectors from 

Radio Shack.  Get your magnifying glass out!


	


I wonder how well miniature connectors like the D-sub work for 16 AWG 

wires.  They are usually used for 22 AWG and smaller wires.



I have been using automotive spade connectors crimped onto the Tefzel 

aircraft wires.  I like the ones that come with full plastic covers 

and tend to tie them together with lacing tape.



Paul

XL Fuselage

mosquito56

Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Laredo, Tx

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

I am curious about using Radio Shack in an airplane. While I am not suggesting the quality is bad, I have to question the quality of Radio Shack in general?

  I highly recommend this page, I go alot of nice info and sites for electrical work.

http://mybearhawk.com/finish/electrical1.html, page 5 had the connectors your talking about.

Don

601xl fuse

Trainnut01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:27 am Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

Patrick

  

 That's how I did the servo wires on my previous project. In addition I  covered the entire splice with another, larger piece of cheap (read stiff) heat  shrink and made sure that section was well anchored. I sold the plane but it is  flying regularly and the new owner has not reported any wiring problems. (And  believe me he does report problems.)

  

 Carroll

  

 do not archive



See wh [quote][b]

dougsnash(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

Guys, all this talk of crimp connectors is making me a

little nervious.  The best way to joun two wires

together is to solder them.  Next step is to rinse the

flux off with water or rubbing alcohol.  Then to

finish them up, apply heat shrink (preferably the

internally glued type).  This is what the professional

avionics shops are supposed to do.  

Yes, it might be overkill in some instances but it

will always work.  No guessing if the crimp is going

to fail.

Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada

--- Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <psm(at)att.net>

 At 08:49 PM 10/12/2007, you wrote:

 >Same here.  I have been using d-sub computer style

 connectors from 

 >Radio Shack.  Get your magnifying glass out!

 I wonder how well miniature connectors like the

 D-sub work for 16 AWG 

 wires.  They are usually used for 22 AWG and smaller

 wires.

 I have been using automotive spade connectors

 crimped onto the Tefzel 

 aircraft wires.  I like the ones that come with full

 plastic covers 

 and tend to tie them together with lacing tape.

 Paul

 XL Fuselage

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

http://farechase.yahoo.com/

shilcom

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 63

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:08 am Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

<<I'm  guessing that twisting them together, soldering, and then covering with  heat-shrink tubing is the way to go.>>



  

 for the example you give, "non critical" i like the  molex connectors.  I'd probably use molex connectors or Terminal boards for  any wiring you "might" have to remove.  Other than those I like the "crimp  style butt connectors" using the proper crimp tool (wide hammer and anvil  type).  This discussion went on and on ,,,on another list I believe, or  maybe it was this list several months ago and it will NEVER be resolved.   Those who feel soldering is still necessary are die hards and will always  solder.  30 or 40 years ago when large crimp connectors first became  available and popular in the large wire ( 3 and 4 ought) on High Voltage  connectors, I was involved in testing the crimps.  We would test the  connectors for resistance drop at high currents, then cut and polish the crimps,  looking for voids.  The "properly crimped" joint was always superior to  other methods, such as lugs bolted together, split bolts etc. A proper  crimp of stranded wire, when cut and polished looks like one "Solid  wire", that is the strands are not visible and have become one wire.    Solderings major detract is the damaging of the insullation AND "cold  solder joints and some corrosion possibilities.  I suspect,  this  debate will get long and won't be resolved here either.  In summary, Get  yourself a GOOD Klein or other commercial brand wide anvil crimper made for  insulated and non-insulated lugs and use it.  

  

 Bob U. 

 [quote]   ---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

This is the only place I used the Radio Shack splices. I staggered the splices and covered the whole lot with a piece of heat shrink and supported the splice near the servo. I have had no trouble in three years and 220 hours of flight time.

I would not use this type of connector for general wiring purposes in an airplane. Every where else I used AMP PIDG connectors or similar except for some Molex multi-pin connectors for the wire bundles at the wing roots and firewall. Some of the Radio Shack stuff is suitable for use, the connectors they sell for single wire connections (butt splices and ring terminals) are generally not suitable.

On Oct 13, 2007, at 1:39 AM, mosquito56 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com (mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com)>

I am curious about using Radio Shack in an airplane. While I am not suggesting the quality is bad, I have to question the quality of Radio Shack in general?

  I highly recommend this page, I go alot of nice info and sites for electrical work.

http://mybearhawk.com/finish/electrical1.html, page 5 had the connectors your talking about.

Don

601xl fuse

	






 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

The other reason that crimping has largely replaced soldered connections is that the major cause of unreliability on soldered joints is the eventual fatigue failures in the wiring due to the transition from a flexible bunch of strands into a fused rod at the boudary of the solder joint.

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

I'm an old time radio guy and my preference is for soldering when there is no need to take the connection apart again.  I also use heat shrink and follow by either wrapping the whole bundle with tape or a bigger piece of heat shrink.



When I was our school's tech guy I used crimpers for everything.... that said, those connections were not be exposed to weather or vibrated by a bouncing airframe.  



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

shilcom

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 63

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

<<<major cause of unreliability on soldered joints is the eventual fatigue  failures in the wiring due to the transition from a flexible bunch of strands  into a fused rod at the boudary of the solder joint.>>

  

 Absolutely,,,,I'd forgot about that.    bob U. 

 



 [quote]   ---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

A connection on a wire which vibrates will be more durable if it is crimped rather than soldered. This assumes the double crimp technique as demonstrated in the Homebuilt Help video etc. You can use Dow Corning #4 electrolytic goo to air-tight the crimp without increasing the rsistance, then cover with at least one layer of heat shrink, then immobilize the wire as best you can. If it screws up after all that.....chalk it up to the will of God and buy a bicycle.



Dred



---- Tim Juhl <juhl(at)avci.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I'm an old time radio guy and my preference is for soldering when there is no need to take the connection apart again.  I also use heat shrink and follow by either wrapping the whole bundle with tape or a bigger piece of heat shrink.

 

 When I was our school's tech guy I used crimpers for everything.... that said, those connections were not be exposed to weather or vibrated by a bouncing airframe.  

 

 Tim

 

 --------

 ______________

 CFII

 Champ L16A flying

 Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A

 Working on wings

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139758#139758

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

 	  PatrickW wrote: 	
		  How are you guys splicing thin wires together...?



For example, where the 5 wires that come out of the aileron servo are spliced to another bundle of 5 wires. 	




Just a follow-up to what I intended versus what I actually did.  Lot of differing ideas out there, but this is what worked for me.  



Intent:



1.  Pre-position all the heat shrink tubes before connecting wires.

2.  Solder wires.

3.  Heat shrink over each wire individually.

4.  Heat shrink a big tube over the whole bundle of wires.



Reality:



1.  Pre-position all the heat shrink tubes before connecting wires.

2.  Solder wires.

3.  Heat shrink over each wire individually.

4.  Cut off the largest size of heat shrink tube, because it wasn't large enough to fit over the mass of individual wires PLUS each heat shrink tube.  It all adds up.

5.  Black tape over the whole mass of wires.

6.  Test trim tab with 9 volt battery.



This method appears to be secure and solid, and I don't think that these connections are likely to be a failure point.  These wires will never have to be disconnected unless I have to replace the aileron servo itself.



I also left a loop of the 5 wire bundle inside the aileron for "slack", tied such that it will not pull or put any stress on the wires.



I'll use a molex type connector on the other end of the wire bundle (at the wing root).



During inspections I'll certainly be able to see if the black tape starts to dry out or unravel, which is the only thing I can think of that could be a problem.



Learning a bit more every day.  Upward and onward...



Thanks,



Patrick

XL/Corvair

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

At 11:05 AM 10/14/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  .  Cut off the largest size of heat shrink tube, because it wasn't 

large enough to fit over the mass of individual wires PLUS each heat 

shrink tube.


	


This little problem can be avoided.  Just cut each wire to a 

different length.  For example cut the second wire 1/4 inch longer 

than the first and the third 1/4 inch longer than the 

second.  Etc.  The result will be a bundle with a splice every 1/4 inch.



Have fun,



Paul

XL fuselage

recovering electrical engineer

do not archive

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

I'd like to make a few points.



first, for the harness you describes I'd  install a multi conductor junction connector like a Moulinex or Cannon to make change outs easier.



Second, If you really don't think the connector is the way to go then stagger your solder joints so no joint can come in direct contact with another joint.  Making the joints that way keeps down the diameter of the final complete splice and protects form the possibility of a short circuit.



Save the electric tape for ground applications.  Use only heat shrink on aircraft wiring.



Noel

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

I agree, solder is the way to go. Crimps suck. I've had crimps fall part 2 seconds after I thought it was tight. Good way to do an inline connect is to get a small piece of wood, staple both wires to the wood facing each other (careful not to staple through the wire) then line them up and solder them together. Then remove the holder wood of course. Also, tinning the wires beforehand helps a lot. Don't forget to put the shrink tube on first so you can slide it down over the connection.

Large wires (cable) a propane torch works well.

Another advantage of solder is you're increasing the surface area where the connection occurs (it's not just on the outside of the outside wires in say a terminal, the solder seeps in everywhere), plus, the connection is essentially sealed at the connection point and holds better. I've had cables and wires on my boat that have seen saltwater continuously that have never had a problem conducting electricity.

I'm also a fan of solid wire, although people will say it is more likely to break, I'm yet to see that either.

do not archive

 	  dougsnash(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		  Guys, all this talk of crimp connectors is making me a

little nervious.  The best way to joun two wires

together is to solder them.  Next step is to rinse the

flux off with water or rubbing alcohol.  Then to

finish them up, apply heat shrink (preferably the

internally glued type).  This is what the professional

avionics shops are supposed to do.  

Yes, it might be overkill in some instances but it

will always work.  No guessing if the crimp is going

to fail.

Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada

--- Paul Mulwitz <psm> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <psm>

 At 08:49 PM 10/12/2007, you wrote:

 >Same here.  I have been using d-sub computer style

 connectors from 

 >Radio Shack.  Get your magnifying glass out!

 I wonder how well miniature connectors like the

 D-sub work for 16 AWG 

 wires.  They are usually used for 22 AWG and smaller

 wires.

 I have been using automotive spade connectors

 crimped onto the Tefzel 

 aircraft wires.  I like the ones that come with full

 plastic covers 

 and tend to tie them together with lacing tape.

 Paul

 XL Fuselage

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

http://farechase.yahoo.com/

billmileski

Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Ledyard, CT

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?

This is a good topic on which to read the many thoughts by Bob Nuckolls (sp?).  I don't always agree with him, but in this case, good quality crimp splices and a proper double-crimping tool will make a nice connection with one of the die, and grab the insulation with the other die, creating a strain relief. A good choice are "window" splices, which are transparent, allowing you to see that wire has been inserted fully.

Tons of info on this at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf



Bill Mileski

701 912S 110hrs

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