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Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
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GreasySideUp

Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 44

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Hello everyone, I've been cruising these boards for a year now (I'm all caught up on Bernoulli running the landing gear) and finally am making a post.  A while ago Tim G talked me into buying a 50, I was all set to pull the trigger when a volunteer opportunity to go to the sand box came up.  Awesome opportunity but it set me back about a year.  I'm on leave right now, I'll be heading back soon and then am hoping to buy early spring time frame when I get back. 



Seems like there are no 50's on the market right now, if you have any leads please let me know.



Brings me to my request.  Is there anyone in the Virginia area who needs some gas money thrown through their 52?  I still have yet to fly in one, would love to see how they work and above all the weather out here is absolutely gorgeous!  



The conversations on this board are definitely interesting, It seems like a fantastic community.  I can't wait to join with my own Yak.



Thanks,



Josh

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

There are a few Yak 50's for sale in Europe



Jan



--

netmaster15(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Hi Jan, I've got a pristine 50 that may be for sale when you're ready to buy, plus a ton of spares that I'm willing to sell together or separately from the aircraft. Note my e mail address and contact me when your tour is up. 

Cliff Umscheid 

Ps Be sure to research the cost of having an aircraft shipped from Europe to the states and then assembled and licensed. 



-- "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be>



There are a few Yak 50's for sale in Europe



Jan



--

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Josh,



Good to hear you are close to pulling the trigger on a -50! I will keep an ear out for you as well.....you never know, there may be in one in Ohio available!



Be careful over there! Are you flying or doing the ground thing?



Tim



Cliff, it is Josh that is looking for an airplane...Jan already has one.

dabear(at)damned.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

If you are interested in flying a CJ with the M14P, give me a call.



Dabear




 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Hello everyone, I've been cruising these boards for a year now (I'm all

 caught up on Bernoulli running the landing gear) and finally am making a

 post.  A while ago Tim G talked me into buying a 50, I was all set to pull

 the trigger when a volunteer opportunity to go to the sand box came up.

 Awesome opportunity but it set me back about a year.  I'm on leave right

 now, I'll be heading back soon and then am hoping to buy early spring time

 frame when I get back.



 Seems like there are no 50's on the market right now, if you have any 

 leads

 please let me know.



 Brings me to my request.  Is there anyone in the Virginia area who needs

 some gas money thrown through their 52?  I still have yet to fly in one,

 would love to see how they work and above all the weather out here is

 absolutely gorgeous!  



 The conversations on this board are definitely interesting, It seems 

 like a

 fantastic community.  I can't wait to join with my own Yak.



 Thanks,



 Josh

Jetj01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

We have a 1979 YAK 50 in silver with red trim, military type paint scheme,  for sale.  $69K unassembled  or $74 assembled and flying.  All  approprate ADs complied with otherwise a bone stock Russian airplane.

  

 Any interest give me a call at 940-613-2797

  

 Jj



See what's new at ww.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170" target="_blank">AOL.com and

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Who's "we" ??  What's the history on the aircraft?  How many hours?  Do

you have the Russian logbooks?  How many rebuilds on the engine? Is the

engine a first or second generation M-14P ??  Assume the spar mod has

been done?  What kind of covering is on the control surfaces and when

was it done?  When was it last airworthy?  Has it got any kind of

registration yet?  



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Also...who did the overhaul?

Jetj01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

In a message dated 10/25/2007 4:59:08 PM Central Daylight Time,  mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Who's    "we" WE are Jj Johnson and Dave Hilker.  WE    currently own a 1975 YAK 50 and a 1985 YAK 50 which    we have been flying going on 5 years.  In the last three years WE have    imported another 1985 YAK 50 (23 hours TT) and a 1979 YAK 50 both of which    sold to two gentleman in Alabama.  About a month ago WE sold a 1984 YAK    50 (55 hours total time) to someone in New Jersey.  So now WE have one    remaining 1979 YAK 50 which we imported from Russia, as per the other    ones??  What's the history on the    aircraft?  Our friend in Russia found this one at an    aeroclub disassembled.  How many hours?  Not sure on this one but quite low I'm sure. Do

you    have the Russian logbooks?  ???  I'll find    outHow many rebuilds on the engine? Zero since    overhaul Is the

engine a first or second generation M-14P ??     First gen Russian engine  Assume the spar mod    has

been done?  All mods accomplished at the    factory in Russian  What kind of covering is on the control    surfaces and when

was it done?  Ceconite and I    think 2002  When was it last airworthy?  Not sure, if like the others not since 80s???  Has    it got any kind of

registration yet?  No.     Only have room to build up one at a time so just finished the 1984, moving on    to this one.  Takes about two weeks.  The FAA rep has been coming    out to issue the AW. 	
  

 This paint scheme looks great and when we received the airplane the air was  still holding pressure in the lines.  Seems like another great YAK  50.  And once you have flown one, yo'll know what I mean.  I am a  military fighter pilot and also have 2000 hours in civilian aircraft.   Nothing is as fun to fly as a YAK 50.  It simply talks to you and is very  pilot friendly.  Yes there are better aerobatic airplanes these days but  none look better or fly overall better.  My '75 will cruise cross country  at 180 mph doing 12 gph and fly hands off when trimmed.  Great plane!

  

 Jj

  	  Quote: 	
		  



Mark Bitterlich

	
 

  



See what's new [quote][b]

GreasySideUp

Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 44

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Thanks for all the replies!  I'm not going to be able to do anything until Aprilish timeframe when I get back from Iraq as far as buying but keep the available ones comming(STS).  Hopefully the dollar is doing a bit better then but right now the Euro is crushing anything I could buy over there.  Tim, say it isn't so that there will be one available in Ohio, or at least say that you are upgrading to that Lavochkin available at Courtesy.  



DaBear I'd love to run some gas through your bird, I'm in Virginia for another week on leave.  How can I get a hold of you?



-j

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Thanks for the info Jj.  WE here in New Bern (that would be me, myself

and I) have owned a few YAK-50's ourselves.  Currently with around 700

hours in make and model over the last 8 years.  WE think it is one hell

of an aircraft as well, and are thinking of purchasing another. WE also

have many friends either from Russia or in Russia, and have learned

caution the hard way.  



Excuse me for being a nit-picker, but really... WE have to be when

dealing with ANYTHING coming in from Russia.  



1. When I asked about the spar mod, you repeated that "all mods have

been done by the factory in Russia".  



Question: Since you do not have the Russian Logbooks, what written

evidence do you have of that please?  Do you have a list of completed

mods done by the overhaul facility, by number with QA stamps

accordingly?  Typically this list is included with the Russian logbooks,

but possibly you have some sort of stand alone documentation? Did you

personally inspect the aircraft for this modification?  My guess is that

you have not.    



2.  When I asked about the Russian logbooks you replied: "I'll find out"

as in, you'll find out if you have them or not.  



Question: Does this mean you have not to date seen them?  What logbooks

then do you have?   



3.  When asked about when it was last airworthy, you replied: "Not sure

but if like the others not since the 80's"    



Question: Are you saying then that the aircraft was totally overhauled

and then never test flown?  



4. When asked about history you replied: "Found at an aero club

disassembled"  You failed to mention any overhaul, but it appears that

one in fact was done?  



Question:  So did your friend then take it to the overhaul facility?

Which one?  What documentation do you have on that? 



5. When asked about when the control surface were covered you replied:

"Ceconite and I think 2002".  



Comment:  No YAK-50 was ever originally covered with artificial fabric.

So I am assuming that this Ceconite was put on during the overhaul?  And

that this overhaul happened in 2002?  Is that accurate?  I am guessing

Romania? What happened between 2002 and 2007?  



6. When asked about hours your replied: "Not sure, but quite low I'm

sure".  



Comment: Yes, typically the Russians never put many hours on their 50's.

Especially the older ones.  They would yank them around pulling up to

11G's, and then around 50 hours or so, would actually retire them. This

of course was after a couple of them had the wings fold up and kill the

pilots.  That is why to this day the aircraft is actually airframe

limited depending on the number and amount of G loading.  However,

without the logbooks, that information is impossible to discover, hence

one can not really be sure about the wings.  



7. When asked about hours on the engine, you replied: "Zero since

overhaul".  



Comment:  That would again infer that it was not even test flown since

overhaul?  However, Russian overhaul facilities rarely would even rip an

engine apart if it had less than 100 hours on it.  If it was indeed

overhauled, which in Russia can actually mean many different things,

then only the Russian engine logs would give any clue on exactly what,

or what not, has been done during that overhaul.  



Based on what you have said here, I am assuming that the aircraft was

found disassembled, and it was then either assembled, or shipped

disassembled to some overhaul facility, someplace.  It then was

overhauled, by somebody.  Then this same somebody, somewhere, apparently

then updated the aircraft with all applicable updates generated by the

YAK bureau, where it was then shipped directly to you?   



You mentioned that the aircraft was still holding pressure "in the

lines" when you received it.  Again I am curious.  What lines do you

speak of?  I mean the wings are off the airplane right?  All the air

lines should be disconnected I would imagine.  Did you mean there was

air in the bottles? 



And a final comment:  The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed of

a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots. Mine

won't go QUITE that fast.  Of course, at WFO throttle setting the fuel

burn is pretty staggering.  Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots with a

12 GPH fuel burn?  My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well.  Power setting

for this speed is about 80-85%  At this power setting I'm burning rather

more than 12 GPH.  



Question:  Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at 156

knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?  



Jj, I believe you've probably got one of the best YAK-50's in the world

with that cruise speed and fuel burn. I've currently flown four

YAK-50's, one of them all the way across the United States and not one

of them would come close to matching yours.  Hold on to that one, it's

pretty special.  



As for my questions, when WE/YOU advertise a price of $74 GRAND for a

1979 YAK-50 then I hope it is understood that questions like this are

pretty much mandatory.  The Spar Mod was not incorporated on factory

built 50's until the 1980's.  1970 vintage YAK-50's need to be actually

inspected by sight to insure that this all important modification has

been done.  It can not be "assumed" it has to be visually sight

inspected.  Any YAK-50 owner with an aircraft built in the 70's who has

not visually inspected this modification his or her self is making one

huge and dangerous mistake.  Without this mod, a 5G limitation is

mandatory, and even that is stretching it.  You can buy the best looking

YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the "Spar Mod" has

not been done, that beauty just went down about $20 GRAND or more in

value.  



Caveat Emptor



Mark Bitterlich

N50YK



--

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

I can get 150+ knots with less than that fuel burn....downhill with the throttle at idle! But I guess that is not cruise...



JJ...what facility did the overhaul? Was it the same folks that did Docs airplane?



Regardless....the -50 is a wonderful airplane. There was an article in a recent aviation rag that was all about wanna be fighters. It included some cool airplanes such as the Suks, Pitts, Extra's and finally the CJ-6/Yak-52. Nothing was mentioned about the -50, which to me, is about as close to a wanna be fighter you can get for any amount of money. 



Josh...the La-9 is a bit of a stretch. I have an emotional attachment to the -50...hard to break that.

Jetj01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

We have the original Russian logs books.  

  

 The 79 YAK 50 has 220 hours

  

 It is a Russian overhaul

  

 All mods done

  

 Any other questions, 940-613-2797

  

 Jj

  

  



See what's new [quote][b]

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Besides the $850 K they want for that very rare bird. 

I am seeing 12 gal/hr (at) 64% with a cruise 240 kph (kilometers)

(at) 70% and 700 mmHg, she jumps up to 260 kph and burns 15 gal/hr. I do not

spend much time cruising around at 80% in the straight an level so the fuel

burn has not been correlated. If I have the throttle pushed up to 80%, you

can bet I'm adjusting my attitude at somewhere around 6G's. She does a

really nice 500 ft diameter loop at 70% however and it feels like a 52 at

80%!

Shakety Is the facility that did my overhaul (IRAN) in 2002. She then went

back into mothballs until it was shipped to the US in 2005. She has had a

very solid engine and the airframe overall has been sound too. Mine is a 78,

the spar mod was done and a list of YAK ads were annotated in my log books

also. The spar mod is real easy to verify for that matter. 

I had a problem with my tailwheel aft shock absorber. The bearing attaching

it to the aft bulkhead was worn out. A new steel aft bulkhead U clamp had

been installed though.

The paint job was not of Lithuanian quality as is on the 52, but she had her

on series of irritating problems. So what I'm saying is, if you want a

perfect airplane don't buy a YAK 50, 52 or a CJ for that matter. When you

buy one of these birds you pretty well have committed yourself to a world of

fun flying and at least 1 to 2 days/week doing maintenance of some type to

continually make her/them better. But they are military aircraft not

flathead spam cans for lands sake.

There ain't no sound like that of a Round! If it is attached to the nose of

a 50, well then you really are having some fun on a mear pentenance of what

it would cost to fly your YAK 9, LA-9, P-51, Corsair, or other piece of

expensive WW II iron!

Doc 



--

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Who in Russia did the overhaul?

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

On Oct 25, 2007, at 9:14 PM, viperdoc wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   on series of irritating problems. So what I'm saying is, if you want a

 perfect airplane don't buy a YAK 50, 52 or a CJ for that matter.  

 When you

 buy one of these birds you pretty well have committed yourself to a  

 world of

 fun flying and at least 1 to 2 days/week doing maintenance of some  

 type to

 continually make her/them better. But they are military aircraft not

 flathead spam cans for lands sake.


	


Well, my experience with my first CJ6A is that I put gas in it,  

changed the oil, adjusted the valves, changed the brake pads a couple  

of times, and flew the hell out of it. It was amazingly reliable and  

trouble free.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Good answer. 



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

"flir47" <me262pilot(at)comcast.net> Said:  "Mine rolls 70% (at) 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!"



Mgb replies:

If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to a standard day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at 5000 feet or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be glad to give to you.  (What say, .. Hey DOC?  Will you officiate please?) Flir47, you lose, you pay me a DOLLAR.  10,000 to 1 odds.  Look forward to meeting you.  



 "flir47" <me262pilot(at)comcast.net> Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C Ã¢â‚¬Å“structuralÃ¢â‚¬Â engineer? If soÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ I will have some questions regarding how you draw these conclusions." 



Mgb replies: 

Be glad to answer any and all questions you have.  I charge $250/hour for consultation.  Payment in advance in your case.  



Have a nice day, 



Mark Bitterlich



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

Damged! This is getting vicious! Now ya'll have dun gon 'n gives me an 'cuse to fly my 50 tomorra! Jus fer grins I'll charg dat video and dat fancy digital camra fur documentation. I aint drainin them fuel tanks though!

Soz I gotta fly one hour at 65% (at) 650 mmHG land and refuel, then fly another hour at 70% at 700 mmHg land and refuel then do it agin fur the 3rd time! Dis time at 80% and 800 mmHG. Land agin and refuel! 

Hey wait till I tells momma dat Iz gots ta fly 3 hurs tomorra! 

Or I could spend part of the morning installing that Shadin fuel flow monitor that has been sitting on my work bench for the past 7-8 months! Then fly once! Hell I'll fly 3 times!

Doc

--

flushjohnson(at)charter.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia

If yall want to go fast get a CJ6 with M14P.  I get 165 KIA ,16 Gph, 70% : 

135 KIA 14Gph  50%.

---

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