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Digital Readout Engine Gauges

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MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Hi Folks,



I have a row of Mitchell Engine Instruments and have often thought about 

changing them to something with a digital readout. I sit and wait for 

that Oil Temperature needle to point (somewhere close to) 120 deg and 

think it would be neat to actually see the temperature is creeping up 

and maybe be a bit more accurate.



I was looking online and found some possibilities in the custom auto 

industry.



Anyone in the US tried any of these?



The Dakota Digital ones have upper limits suitable for a Rotax, the 

Cyberdyne ones come up a bit short. Both have limits you can set so the 

displays flash as a warning. They seem pretty neat to me.



Check out:



http://cyberdynegauges.net/temperaturegaugesproduct.php



http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/Category_ID 62/home_id=59/mode=cat/cat262.htm



Comments? Any other suggestions?



Regards,

Martin Tuck

Europa N152MT

Wichita, Kansas

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

doesnt say if you can get them in deg c, which i would want, and i wonder

how accurate that compass is, other than that they look ok to me

the egt is about half the price of a digital aero one, so price is good



craig



--

europa flugzeug fabrik

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 65
Location: North Coast, USA

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Any engine instrumentation we buy has to be compatible with the Rotax temp and pressure senders.



Fred F

MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

From what I can see they do require their own senders but they appear 

to be identical in size/thread, etc.as the Rotax ones so switching them 

doesn't appear to pose a problem.



Martin



europa flugzeug fabrik wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Any engine instrumentation we buy has to be compatible with the Rotax temp and pressure senders.



 Fred F

M.Grass(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Martin,



Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the 

pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to 

process the numbers and compare them mentally.



In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog and 

digital representation in one instrument.

Example is at 

http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html .

The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature and 

will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded.



You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation industry if 

you look further.



Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a short 

look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area. Much 

quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason why the 

digital representation in a car never took of.



Regards



Michael Grass

A266 Trigear

Detroit

---

patkinson

Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 15

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Michael



I am probably totally biased now but I have to disagree. I can't comment  

on any extra brain activity that may be required but having sat in front  

of several different types of digital display over a number of years I  

find them just as easy to use as analogue ones and actually prefer them.  

Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two.  I am sure  

that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing,  

particularly in low speed flight near the ground.

My car has a digital display (no analogue) and although it took a bit of  

getting used to I am very comfortable with it now, and no longer feel that  

an analogue display is necessary at all.



Regards

Paul Atkinson

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:53:40 -0000, Michael Grass <M.Grass(at)comcast.net>  

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

  Martin,

  Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the  

 pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to  

 process the numbers and compare them mentally.

  In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog  

 and digital representation in one instrument.

 Example is at  

 http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html  

 .

 The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature  

 and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded.

  You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation  

 industry if you look further.

  Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a  

 short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area.  

 Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason  

 why the digital representation in a car never took of.

  Regards

  Michael Grass

 A266 Trigear

 Detroit




	


-- 

/

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Paul,

I agree about the car thing; but in that instance a specific number is being 

sought (i.e. speed, to enable mental comparison to a limiting speed).



I have to say that an analogue needle pointing to a green arc can be seen 

from the corner of an eye, without need to focus, read and interpret. Much 

easier in my view. Helps if the gauges aren't mounted at the bottom of the 

panel, however.



The alarm facility on the digital gauges is without equal, especially as 

analogue gauges probably don't get looked at very often, or not at the 

precise moment needed !



Duncan McF.



---

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Not sure about pilot training in the UK and US but most of the schools in

Australia

teach students to a C.L.E.A.R.O.F.F check every 15 minutes. A LOT can happen

to an engine

in 15 minutes (personal experience) and an alarm IMHO is the best way to go

as people get

tired and thus less vigilent, and you may be checking t's & p's etc, but not

actually

"seeing" them regardless of the gauge style especially on longer flights,

one option

for analogue gauges is to align them in the same way the old race cars did,

so all the needles should

point straight up or down under normal conditions, that way any needle not

vertical is instantly evident, it does however

give your panel an odd look with all your gauges at crazy angles.



craig



--

Mark Burton

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 74

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

> Probably the best type of display is one that combines the two. I am sure

> that it aids more accurate speed control, which is no bad thing,

> particularly in low speed flight near the ground. 



In that case, why not use a talking ASI? With one of those you don't have to look at the panel at all - you can keep your eyes outside which has to be a good thing from the safety point of view if you happen to find yourself low and slow.



Obviously, if you are a highly trained pilot who flies lots of hours in glass cockpits then digital readouts would probably be no problem but for your average pilot who doesn't fly so many hours, digital readouts would, perhaps, be less easy to read quickly than an old fashioned "steam" gauge. Maybe a digital ASI would not be a good thing but for the other instruments, it probably makes no difference from the safety point of view whether they are digital or analogue.



Cheers,



Mark

patkinson

Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 15

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Mark



Why not indeed. The only drawback that I can think of is that the constant  

chatter might become very irritating. If you can design one that talks  

when asked to, shuts up when told to, and otherwise gives the odd warning  

automatically now and again you might have a winner. There's a challenge 

If anything glass displays IMHO make things easier for everyone,  

experienced or not. Most that I have seen combine digital and analogue and  

because all the information you need is contained in a smaller area  

(compared to steam gauges) scanning it is a simpler task.

Regards



Paul



On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:55:54 -0000, Mark Burton <markb(at)ordern.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   In that case, why not use a talking ASI? With one of those you don't  

 have to look at the panel at all - you can keep your eyes outside which  

 has to be a good thing from the safety point of view if you happen to  

 find yourself low and slow.

 Obviously, if you are a highly trained pilot who flies lots of hours in  

 glass cockpits then digital readouts would probably be no problem but  

 for your average pilot who doesn't fly so many hours, digital readouts  

 would, perhaps, be less easy to read quickly than an old fashioned  

 "steam" gauge. Maybe a digital ASI would not be a good thing but for the  

 other instruments, it probably makes no difference from the safety point  

 of view whether they are digital or analogue.

 Cheers,

 Mark


	


-- 

/

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Hi folks,



Well I would like to share my experience with using digital only

displays in my aircraft.  I had the exact same concern that it would

take some level of interpretation, but I really didn't find it a

problem at all.  I actually find it quite seamless.  The only

exception might be when something is trending, but to be honest I

haven't had any experiences one way or the other.



At the end of the day I think it really depends on the individual on

how their brain is "wired" to receive and interpret data... we are all

different in that regard.



Cheers,  Paul

Mark Burton

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 74

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

> Why not indeed. The only drawback that I can think of is that the constant

> chatter might become very irritating. If you can design one that talks

> when asked to, shuts up when told to, and otherwise gives the odd warning

> automatically now and again you might have a winner. There's a challenge



Such a thing is already available - the technology is straightforward, the real challenge is getting people to buy them!



Cheers,



Mark

johnwigney(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Hi Michael,

 

 I hope your project is progressing well. I would like to offer another opinion on digital vs. analog. When I was designing my panel, I installed a 2 1/4" analog tachometer with the rpm range markings for the 912S. I also installed a Grand Rapids EIS 2004-W, see http://www.grtavionics.com/model_2004.htm, for my engine monitoring, fuel status and annunciator requirements. I assumed that the analog gauge would be my primary reference for engine speed. Before flying the plane I had been talking with Greg Toman, the Grand Rapids Pres., and mentioned my analog tacho. His comment was "Oh, you will never use that. You will always use the EIS." My reaction was that he was incorrect since I also thought that analog readings were easier and quicker to interpret. However, I found that as soon as I started flying the plane, I never looked at the analog gauge. The EIS digits refresh very quickly and are very accurate. When I build my next panel?, it will have an EIS and no analog tacho. 

 

 Cheers, John

 N262WF, mono XS, 912S, Whirlwind c/s prop

 Mooresville, North Carolina

  [quote]ORIGINAL MESSAGE

From: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: Re: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

Martin,

Be aware that only numerical displays impose additional workload to the pilot. You would actually have to read the number and the brain has to process the numbers and compare them mentally.

In your case, I would look for some instruments with a combined analog and 

digital representation in one instrument.

Example is at http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html .

The nice thing about digital once is that many have a monitoring feature and will ring an alarm when certain programmed levels are exceeded.

You find also nicer looking once in the automotive and aviation industry if 

you look further.

Advantage of analog representation is that you just need to have a short look at the instrument to see that all data are in the right area. Much quicker and less workload to the brain. This is exactly the reason why the digital representation in a car never took of.

Regards

Michael Grass

A266 Trigear

Detroit[b]

rowil(at)clara.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

At 18/11/07 21:25 +1000 craig bastin wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  most of the schools in

Australia

teach students to a C.L.E.A.R.O.F.F check every 15 minutes


	


Craig - that's new acronym on me! I can make a guess at some of it, 

but would like to know the "authorised verion", please!



regards



Rowland

-- 

| Rowland Carson  PFA #16532    http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/

| 840 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI  e-mail <rowil(at)clara.net>

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: Digital Readout Engine Gauges

C.L.E.A.R.O.F.F



Compass and DI aligned, flying correct heading

Location. Fix your position

Engine, T's & P's where they should be

Altitude. Correct for plan/heading, and current airspace clearance.

Radio, Correct frequency, still working.

Oxygen (pressurisation)

Fuel, contents sufficient for remaining flight time, correct tank (if

required)

Flaps both wing and cowl correct



the prelanding one ammuses most new students



BUMFFISH



Brakes, working

Undercarriage, (down and locked/Fixed)

Mixture full rich

Fuel, pump on, contents sufficent

Flaps set, both wing and cowl

Instruments (T's and P's correct)

Security, loose objects secure

Hatches and harnesses set for landing.



Short Final check



PLUFF



Pitch (full Fine)

Landing clearance (granted / runway clear)

Undercarriage, (down and locked/Fixed)

Fuel, full rich, pump on, contents sufficent

Flaps set, both wing and cowl



Line up check



TWAD



Transponder, switch to alt, squark correct.

windsock. Crosswind estimate

Aimpoint, for after takeoff

DI and compass agree with runway heading.



I am sure there are other ones that work just as well, are there any others

people want to share

--

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