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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:51 am Post subject: 912 oil filters

Roger,



It don't believe that it is in any of the SIs or SBs from Rotax.  I don't think it is a Rotax recommendation.  I believe it is a recommendation specifically from Lockwood.  The folks at Lockwood have seen a LOT of engines come back to them for maintenance or repair.  They noticed that folks who dumped the oil out of the bottom of the oil reservoir for an oil change don't clean out the reservoir.  This is especially true of the folks who have installed a quick drain on the bottom of the reservoir.  And even more necessary if you regularly use 100LL.  The gunk and lead residue should be cleaned out of the reservoir at each oil change anyway.  So why not just remove the reservoir full of oil and get it all away from the aircraft to dump and clean.  



Lockwood also recommend that the oil reservoir and all components be "clocked."  That is, they should be marked so that it is assembled and oriented with all components placed in the same position.  I'm writing this at work.  When I get home this afternoon, I'll go back to my class notes and see if I have left anything out.  



Oh yes, DON"T GET THE IN AND OUT LINES MIXED UP WHEN YOU PUT THE RESERVOIR BACK IN!   This is one area where there could be some improvement.  There should be different fittings on the IN and OUT lines on the reservoir so that one can not cross-up the lines.  The results of such a mix-up is disastrous to both the engine and pocket book.



Check six,

Bob

 

On Tuesday, November 20, 2007, at 12:10AM, "Roger Roy" <Savannah174(at)msn.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob, I did take time to view all 145 pics in your Lockwood school album very interesting and an excellent job with the camera. One thing that sort of raised the hair on the back of my neck was the fact that a statement made as to the removal, disassembly, cleaning and reinstallation of that oil tank. Unless I missed it I checked ROAN's SB and SL as well as the line maintenance manual and no where could I find that task, can you shed some light on that?

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: 912 oil filters

Roger,

How do I get to your post?  Were you recommending certain filters?

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII

jack.kuehn(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: 912 oil filters

The oil filter question is not a simple one!  I know that Challenger

sells one for the 912 that is supposed to be better than the Rotax

filter, and that is what I have used for the last 70 hours, but I

wonder why the K&N is not just as good.  It is not about price so much

as availability. Buying local is so much better than mail order!

There is an accident report on the FAA records of a 912 that lost its

oil because the Fram filter has a slightly different thread and it

came off.  All filters must be wired...easy to do with a big hose

clamp around the filter, wired to the engine.  I have this info on

bypass pressures from someone on the Sky Ranger list.



1. Purolator

    Pure One  PL10241   Best

    Synthetic medium and more than Mahle,   3.3" long

     bypass starts at 12 psi



2.  Mobile-1  M1-102

     Synthetic medium and more than Mahle

     bypass starts at 12psi



     Mahle OC 11 which is the Rotax 825-701  2.44" long    Good filter

     bypass starts at 13 psi, less filter sq. in. surface medium than Pure

     One or Fram



3.  Fram Tough Guard  TG3614

     standard paper type medium,  3.3" long

     bypass starts at 12 psi



No, 1psi does not make a difference and each filter varies slightly anyway.



On Nov 20, 2007 7:03 AM, Dave Austin <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Roger,

 How do I get to your post?  Were you recommending certain filters?

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII




	




(406)273-6801

(406)546-1086 cell

jack.kuehn(at)gmail.com

(406)273-2563 fax

Savannah174(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: 912 oil filters

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Bob,

 Thanks for the comeback. I have a Savannah (CH-701 look alike) and I do  have a drain at the bottom of the oil tank. I do not use AVGAS and my oil gets  changed every 25 hours. So for me most my oil changes might be a waste of time  and money as the oil always looks fresh, but it gives me the opportunity to  check things out under the "hood". But I do concur with tank removal, cleaning,  indexing the subassemblies and reinstallation but in my case that will be an  item added to my Conditional Annual Inspection

 thanks again Bob, have a great Turkey day

  

 RJ

 ---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: 912 oil filters

I send and receive all posts through Microsoft Outlook.  Never a problem

with time outs and spell check works too.   



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: 912 oil filters

Here's my reply in an attachment. At least I got to type it out and send it this time.  



It's a Word document.

Oil Filters.doc

Description:

Download

Filename:

Oil Filters.doc

Filesize:

34 KB

Downloaded:

731 Time(s)

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: Re: 912 oil filters

I can't let Dean Vogel's response to the question from Bob Borger go by without being contested. 



What exactly does the 120F oil temperature minimum before going to full power have to do with oil filter bypass pressure???? The answer: Almost NOTHING!



The 120F oil temperature minimum is to prevent the operator from risking damage to the engine by going to take-off power while the engine is cold. The oil pressure by-pass valve is to permit oil to flow to the engine if the filter is clogged from debris or sludge. One has almost nothing at all to do with the other. 



My A&P I/A partner in our Allegro attended Dean's 4-stroke class last April. It took about 1 1/2 hours into Dean's class (last April) before we realized that this guy does not know much about engines. He regurgitates what he is told. It is my understanding that he is an electrical engineer with zero mechanical background other than what he has "learned" (memorized?) from Lockwood. When you ask him a question he has not already been told the answer to, if he is smart he will say I don't know, which is a fair and proper answer. But when he makes up stuff based on suppositions without understanding what he is talking about, he has gone too far.



That said, this does not mean that everything that is taught in his class is not worthwhile and good information for 912 operators but if he goes outside of the class syllabus, he may be making stuff up on the fly, like linking the minimum oil temp to oil filter by-pass pressure. The only linkage there is is a minor one. That is, when oil is cold its viscosity is higher than when warm and oil pressure will be higher than when warm. BUT this difference in viscosity (and pressure) between cold and hot oil (especially in multi-weight oils) is not sufficient to make a difference in oil filter by-pass valve operation unless the filter is nearly clogged anyway. That will only happen if the recommended oil and filter change interval and tank cleaning have been ignored for quite a long time.



Thom in Buffalo

FAA Powerplant Mechanic

Retired Mechanical Engineer

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: Re: 912 oil filters

Hi Thom,



I couldn't agree more with the statement that quite a few people teach or give out info that has been handed down from person to person and no real science to back it up. I know we all like to believe our teachers are always right, but we sometimes have to question where did they get their info and challenge that sometimes. I do in classes I take and I expect that in classes I teach. When I teach and don't know an answer I say so then go look it up or ask if anyone in the class has any insight. Some people who attend classes are as sharp or more informed than the teacher. I have backed teachers in the corner with oil filter or technical questions and they finally have to break down and just say that was what I was told.



I agree that an oil temp of 120F has nothing to do with the bypass pressure. This is just the temp that Rotax specifies before running the engine to full operating rpm. Like I have said if your bypass is operating then you have bigger issues.

I wonder if Toyota would make such a big stink if someone used a Rotax oil filter on one of their cars? It does fit several Toyota models. That's what the other filters in my last post fit along with a few other foreign cars. Hope they aren't too mad about the bypass opening at start up that no one told them about.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: 912 oil filters

I've used the Toyota V6 oil filter for 14 years on my 912.  Not using a drop 

of oil yet.  650 hours.  Started doing that because I had a V6 Toyota!

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: 912 oil filters

Hi Thom,



As one retired engineer to another my only comment is that when the engine

is cold the oil is more viscous and  risk associated with applying higher

power settings is excessive oil px.  Excess pressure is limited by the oil

pressure relief valve (which is part of the engine oil px circuit and not

the filter). 

The pressure relief valve in the filter opens in response to a high pressure

drop over the filter element and simply bypasses the element.  It does

little to the engine oil px itself.  Indeed, if anything, the engine oil px

may increase slightly when the by pass valve opens.



Could this be where confusion comes from.



Pete



--

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: Re: 912 oil filters

Hi Guys,

Straight viscosity oil acts differently in hot and cold than a multi viscosity. The multi viscosity oil has and additive to give it its unique properties when cold and to change when it's hot. Multi viscosity oil has to thin in colder engine climates and thicken in hotter climates. Just look at the use charts for oils and climate temps.

That's why some in very cold climates may use a 5-20w verses someone in a hotter climate using a 20-50w. 5w oil works better in colder climates. In the older days when people would use just a straight weight Dino based oil like a 30w and they lived in Montana and it was the middle of the winter and they didn't have a block heater they couldn't even get the engine to turn over. Todays synthetics and good multi viscosity oils don't have as big an issue with the cold as the older straight weight Dino based oils did of yesteryear. 



That said some experts recommend that nothing less than a 10-40w be used in anything that uses the engine oil in the transmission. A 10-40w oil can get down to some pretty cold temps., at least for this Arizona boy. Some even recommend 20-50w if used in both. To each his own on that subject.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Savannah174(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: 912 oil filters

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Well Dave that is one opener, The Rotax has been around for 14 years?????  It wasn't long ago that the 2 cycle 532 was the best they had until the aircraft  designated 582 came along than finally the 9XX series. This is one great list  because I learned something today, thanks

 RJ

  	  Quote: 	
		     To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)    

   Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:03    PM

   Subject: Re: Re: 912    oil filters

--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Dave Austin"    <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca (daveaustin2(at)primus.ca)>

I've    used the Toyota V6 oil filter for 14 years on my 912.  Not using a drop    

of oil yet.  650 hours.  Started doing that because I had a V6    Toyota!

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII    nbsp;        -- Please Support Your Lists This Month    (And Get  the Annual  link  Free    title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution    href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c  Thank you for your generous    ;                         -Matt Dralle, List    nbsp;        Features  Chat,  --> http://www.p;      via the Web  title=http://forums.matronics.com/    href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

_-===================================

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: 912 oil filters

The 912 has been around since about late 1989. As they say the rest is history.

I believe Rotax pumps out approximately 6500-7000 engines a year. I don't think any other aircraft mfg. is producing that many a year.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: 912 oil filters

Roger:



Considering the auto filters by pass at a slightly lower pressure and the

automotive oil probably gets much more of a beating than the aviation

application.  Do you really think the Toyota engineers don't know about the

bypass opening on start up??   Especially on all cars sold North of the 49th

in the winter months.



After all that's why the by pass is there..  To allow oil to flow and not

blow some other component because of high pressure.  I have seen an oil

cooler that was on an IO-540 after it ruptured on a sub zero start up.  They

didn't have the pressure by pass oil cooler on that engine and it became the

weakest link.... D...messy too.



Noel

Hope they  aren't too mad about the bypass opening at start up that no  one

told them about.  

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 --------

 Roger Lee

 Tucson, Az.

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: 912 oil filters

Thom,



The only part of your response I will strenuously argue with it the  

"making it up" comment.  If Dean did not know the answer to a  

question, he admitted it without hesitation and went to what ever  

source was necessary to find the proper answer which was provided at  

the next possible class opportunity.



Dean is an engineer, former USAF pilot and test pilot, test pilot and  

engineer for one of those plastic aircraft (I don't remember if it  

was Cirrus or Columbia) prior to joining Lockwood.  He gave us his  

complete background when he began the class.  He admitted that he was  

new to the Rotax and was continuing to learn about the engine as time  

and his class experience went on.  I found him honest and straight  

forward.  And I wouldn't expect him to teach anything that is  

contrary to Rotax requirements.  He will teach straight by the Rotax  

books.



Bob Borger



On Nov 21, 2007, at 7:44 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <riddletr(at)gmail.com>



 I can't let Dean Vogel's response to the question from Bob Borger  

 go by without being contested.



 What exactly does the 120F oil temperature minimum before going to  

 full power have to do with oil filter bypass pressure???? The  

 answer: Almost NOTHING!



 The 120F oil temperature minimum is to prevent the operator from  

 risking damage to the engine by going to take-off power while the  

 engine is cold. The oil pressure by-pass valve is to permit oil to  

 flow to the engine if the filter is clogged from debris or sludge.  

 One has almost nothing at all to do with the other.



 My A&P I/A partner in our Allegro attended Dean's 4-stroke class  

 last April. It took about 1 1/2 hours into Dean's class (last  

 April) before we realized that this guy does not know much about  

 engines. He regurgitates what he is told. It is my understanding  

 that he is an electrical engineer with zero mechanical background  

 other than what he has "learned" (memorized?) from Lockwood. When  

 you ask him a question he has not already been told the answer to,  

 if he is smart he will say I don't know, which is a fair and proper  

 answer. But when he makes up stuff based on suppositions without  

 understanding what he is talking about, he has gone too far.



 That said, this does not mean that everything that is taught in his  

 class is not worthwhile and good information for 912 operators but  

 if he goes outside of the class syllabus, he may be making stuff up  

 on the fly, like linking the minimum oil temp to oil filter by-pass  

 pressure. The only linkage there is is a minor one. That is, when  

 oil is cold its viscosity is higher than when warm and oil pressure  

 will be higher than when warm. BUT this difference in viscosity  

 (and pressure) between cold and hot oil (especially in multi-weight  

 oils) is not sufficient to make a difference in oil filter by-pass  

 valve operation unless the filter is nearly clogged anyway. That  

 will only happen if the recommended oil and filter change interval  

 and tank cleaning have been ignored for quite a long time.



 Thom in Buffalo

 FAA Powerplant Mechanic

 Retired Mechanical Engineer



 --------

 Thom in Buffalo

 N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL

 N197BG FS1/447

 --------------------

 We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.

 Â  - Aesop





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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: 912 oil filters

Roger:



That was very well written.   I learned a lot from that post.



There is just one thing though.....(darn!)  I doubt there is a car in the

lower 48 that the filter by passes on every start up.  This far North when

on a cold frosty morning when the temperature is close to 0F and the car has

about three thousand miles on the oil and you can feel the strain of the

starter motor as the engine grinds over you can bet the filter by pass will

open and will stay open until the viscosity of the oil decreases.  As you

said this is not an instantaneous thing the pressure takes time to build up.

It's just that it continues to build for as long as several minutes.  This

is a good reason why not to start your engine and drive off on a cold winter

morning.  A couple of minutes at the idle ( fast idle FI) can be a real

engine saver and allow the oil a chance to circulate.



I used to live in Labrador.  That was over thirty years ago when the earth

was still green.  The major problems we had in those days were automatic

transmission oil becoming too viscous to work properly and sometimes

hydraulic fluid in brake slave cylinders would make the foot break on a car

feel like stepping on something the consistency of a brick.  Manual

transmissions were sometimes all but impossible to get in gear and you could

time the clutch engaging with a calendar if it had a hydraulic actuator.  If

you were fortunate enough to get your brakes to apply you might have to wait

five minutes for them to release.  A few minutes with a partially applied

brake would generate enough heat to free up the brakes again.  No one, and I

mean no one was dumb enough to ever apply the hand brake in the winter!



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: 912 oil filters

Hi Noel,

I was trying to be a wise guy when I cracked the joke about Toyota.

I agree that under adverse conditions any thing can happen, but under our usual or normal circumstances what would happen to one filter would have probably happened to the other. I believe automotive oil gets dirtier faster because of all the types of driving that is done in and around a city. Our aircraft engines don't see the stop and go, as much throttle use and we tend to change oil more regularly than some in cars.

50w oil will flow through these filters so why would 20w cause a bypass to open. Nothing is blocking the upstream or downstream part of the filter medium and at our start up oil pressure and high rpm's are not instantaneous. I think some people just look for issues that aren't really there to make what they have heard sound true or at least reasonable.



We do need shear additives for our Rotax engines just like motorcycles do for the gearbox. The gearbox beats on the oil. Not to make it dirtier, that's just carbon from the combustion process that is being removed and that means the oil is doing its job. The issue with our oil in the gearbox is that the better the shear additives the less an oil will lose some of its viscosity and gearbox protection. Just because an oil is black doesn't mean it is not doing a good job lubricating. To really see if your oil is breaking down it needs to be sent to a lab. We change ours so often I seriously doubt anyone of us is having an oil breakdown problem. Unless my temps in Tucson, Az get below 20F I use 20-50w motorcycle Amsoil all year. More for the gearbox than the engine and we get pretty warm in the summer. Our normal winter month temps are in the 30's for the lows, some in the 40's and some in the high 20's.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Last edited by Roger Lee on Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: 912 oil filters

Roger,



I too agree that quite a few people teach or give out info that has  

been handed down from person to person with no real science or  

engineering to back it up.  That's why there's a lot of very bad  

information floating around the web about the care and feeding of the  

Rotax engines.  Mostly from well meaning people with a lot of  

experience dealing with Lycoming and Continental and automotive  

engines.  The Rotax isn't your grandpa's LyCosarus and requires some  

significantly different care and feeding.  That's why I went to the  

Rotax course.



As for Toyota making a stink about using a Rotax oil filter, yup,  

probably would if something went wrong in the engine.  Probably void  

your warranty.



Good building and great flying,

Bob Borger

On Nov 21, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Roger Lee wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>



 Hi Thom,



 I couldn't agree more with the statement that quite a few people  

 teach or give out info that has been handed down from person to  

 person and no real science to back it up. I know we all like to  

 believe our teachers are always right, but we sometimes have to  

 question where did they get their info and challenge that  

 sometimes. I do in classes I take and I expect that in classes I  

 teach. When I teach and don't know an answer I say so then go look  

 it up or ask if anyone in the class has any insight. Some people  

 who attend classes are as sharp or more informed than the teacher.  

 I have backed teachers in the corner with oil filter or technical  

 questions and they finally have to break down and just say that was  

 what I was told.



 I agree that an oil temp of 120F has nothing to do with the bypass  

 pressure. This is just the temp that Rotax specifies before running  

 the engine to full operating rpm. Like I have said if your bypass  

 is operating then you have bigger issues.

 I wonder if Toyota would make such a big stink if someone used a  

 Rotax oil filter on one of their cars? It does fit several Toyota  

 models. That's what the other filters in my last post fit along  

 with a few other foreign cars. Hope they aren't too mad about the  

 bypass opening at start up that no one told them about.  



 --------

 Roger Lee

 Tucson, Az.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147699#147699

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:22 am Post subject: 912 oil filters

Bob,

Below is the quote I copied from Dean Vogel's response to you, which you posted.



"...the one thing I know is that the pressure is about 25% higher on       >the Rotax filter than on the normal automotive filter.  So if you need to be       >at 120F oil temperature before you can be sure the Rotax filter is running       >filtered oil through the system, what temperature do you have to be at with       >the automotive filters?"



This statement clearly implies that until the oil temperature reaches 120F you can't be sure the engine is running filtered oil. At least that is what it says to me. It may not be what Dean meant but it is what he said and the implied meaning is not correct. When I first read that statement I could not believe he meant it but after reading the question immediately following the statement then I had no choice but to believe he meant what the statement implied.



Again, I'm not saying Dean is intentionally mis-leading anyone in this regard. I'm saying he is talking about something he doesn't fully understand and perhaps mis-understood what he was told by someone else.  I'm not defending automotive filters and have no intention of switching to automotive filters on our 912.  I'm arguing only against propagating mis-information about the relationship of 120F oil and the oil filter bypass opening.



Thom in Buffalo



 [quote][b]

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: Re: 912 oil filters

Hi All,



HAPPY THANKSGIVING 

WHAT A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!



Hi Noel,



With your car do you use a block heater?

I know the people who live in the extreme cold climates down to 0F or lower have different issues. Preheating an engine with a blanket style heater or any method to keep the engine warmer on very cold days would certainly help. In my post I tried to qualify the temp range from 20F-100F. This I would think is the more normal day to day operation around the US during the year. Extremes during some debates should be considered, but realize they are out of the average day to day operating parameters and special consideration or a new debate on the extreme should be talked about. People in the extremes should take special precautions when operating their Rotax or any engine.

Everyone have a good day!

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

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