 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
enewton57(at)cableone.net
Guest
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
 |
|
I'll soon be getting my Bearhawk ready for final FAA (or DAR) inspection and have a question.
Does anyone know if the remote compass that displays the heading information on my Dynon D100 qualifies as the required compass with the FAA. My thinking is that it isn't too different than a panel mounted vertical card compass with a remote sender.
What do you guys/gals think?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682- Mississippi Mudbug
BEARHAWK BUILDER'S MANUALS
http://mybearhawk.com
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mwcreek(at)frontiernet.ne
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Hi Eric,
FSDO’s differ somewhat, but I asked the Reno, NV office that question and was told I would still need a whiskey compass. I’m equipped with a GRT Sport EFIS (with GPS and magnetometer), GPS496, TT AP, and SL30. So that is two GPS’s, two magnetometers, and a VOR; and they still want a whiskey compass even though they are mostly useless in a tube and rag air frame. Go figure…
You may want to call your local FSDO and ask; I hope you have better luck than I did.
A question for the group though, given at least one of us has to install a compass are there any recommendations for brand/type and for locations in a tube airframe?
Thanks,
Mike Creek
Bearhawk QB
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Newton
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:27 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com; bearhawkers; Bearhawk(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection
I'll soon be getting my Bearhawk ready for final FAA (or DAR) inspection and have a question.
Does anyone know if the remote compass that displays the heading information on my Dynon D100 qualifies as the required compass with the FAA. My thinking is that it isn't too different than a panel mounted vertical card compass with a remote sender.
What do you guys/gals think?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682- Mississippi Mudbug
BEARHAWK BUILDER'S MANUALS
http://mybearhawk.com
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Good Evening Eric,
I don't really know, but I will bet a milkshake the FAA won't buy it.
The Douglas DC-8 was built without a magnetic compass because it had so many electronic heading sources available. When it came to certification time, the FAA would not approve it without a whiskey compass.
Douglas had no good place to mount it up front, so they placed it in the overhead behind the captain's seat. They then mounted a couple of mirrors on the glare shield and a mirror behind the compass. By flipping the mirrors up, the captain and the copilot could look via the mirrors at the compass.
In all the years I flew the DC-8. I never once looked at the compass other than during the preflight. We checked that it was there and that the light turned on when the switch was flipped. I only did that because it was a required preflight check list item.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/24/2007 7:32:03 P.M. Central Standard Time, enewton57(at)cableone.net writes:
| Quote: | Does anyone know if the remote compass that displays the heading information on my Dynon D100 qualifies as the required compass with the FAA. My thinking is that it isn't too different than a panel mounted vertical card compass with a remote sender.
What do you guys/gals think?
|
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
simon(at)synchronousdesig
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Dick,
Below is a response to an email on the Aeroelectric List forum. It discusses whether the whisky compass is required. I claim that the FARs require a compass that does not need any input except the Earth’s magnetic field. Mike Creek below claims that the Reno FSDO requires a whiskey compass. Since my airplane is already built, I would not need to go through a FSDO. Instead, I would have to file a form that says I am going to change the panel. The real problem comes when I am flying around the country, and I have either an accident or the FAA ramp checks me. If I go to Nevada and have an accident, I will be scrooed!
imon Ramirez, Consultant
Synchronous Design, Inc.
Oviedo, FL 32765 USA
407-365-8928: home/office
407-221-8928: mobile
Xilinx Alliance Partner
Copyright © 2007
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Creek
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:23 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection
Hi Eric,
FSDO’s differ somewhat, but I asked the Reno, NV office that question and was told I would still need a whiskey compass. I’m equipped with a GRT Sport EFIS (with GPS and magnetometer), GPS496, TT AP, and SL30. So that is two GPS’s, two magnetometers, and a VOR; and they still want a whiskey compass even though they are mostly useless in a tube and rag air frame. Go figure…
You may want to call your local FSDO and ask; I hope you have better luck than I did.
A question for the group though, given at least one of us has to install a compass are there any recommendations for brand/type and for locations in a tube airframe?
Thanks,
Mike Creek
Bearhawk QB
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Newton
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:27 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com; bearhawkers; Bearhawk(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection
I'll soon be getting my Bearhawk ready for final FAA (or DAR) inspection and have a question.
Does anyone know if the remote compass that displays the heading information on my Dynon D100 qualifies as the required compass with the FAA. My thinking is that it isn't too different than a panel mounted vertical card compass with a remote sender.
What do you guys/gals think?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682- Mississippi Mudbug
BEARHAWK BUILDER'S MANUALS
http://mybearhawk.com
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0123456789 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
0 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
1 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
2 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
3 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
4 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
5 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
6 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
7 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
8 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
9
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
11/23/2007 7:39 PM
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Eric,
<< Dynon .. remote compass .. qualifies as the required compass >>
Technically, none of the "required" equipment is required. The
applicable FAR (91.205) specifically states it applies only to
aircraft having a "standard category US airworthiness
certificate". This is administratively corrected by
"co-ordinating" all FAA and DAR inspectors to include conformance
with FAR 91.205 as part of the Operating Limitations issued with
the Special Airworthiness Certificate. Ain't nit picking
gum'mint rules fun.
So to specifically address your question, FAR 91.205(3) requires
a "Magnetic Direction Indicator" period. This means no-one can
legitimately complain if your Dynon has been calibrated. If they
do, politely ask them to show you where in the regs it says your
Magnetic Direction Indicator has to be unpowered. Point out the
Dynon is not a gyro direction indicator, without the remote
magnetic sensor it gives no heading readout.
Parts 23 and 25 (the rules governing Type Certification) do
require a "nonstabilized magnetic compass", hence the reason for
a wet compass in a DC-8 (and a Boeing and an Airbus and a Piper
Cub...). But, by definition, homebuilt experimental aircraft are
outside their applicability.
Just remember when dealing with inspectors, being right doesn't
always win the battle. If they wish, they can always find some
other reason to not grant the certificate. Personally, my Dynon
D-180 equipped Sportsman has a vertical card compass on the
glareshield. Call it part of my electrical emergency backup
instrumentation (along with steam gauge Airspeed and Altimeter).
Tom Kuffel
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
All of our Air Carrier aircraft need an independent compass capable of corrections for N-E-S-W and have a current compass correction card posted. I don’t know if you guys need the same compliance. Come to think of it, every aircraft including hot air balloons needed to meet that requirement until a few years ago when the LTA’s were exempted.
John Cox
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of S. Ramirez
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:27 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection
Dick,
Below is a response to an email on the Aeroelectric List forum. It discusses whether the whisky compass is required. I claim that the FARs require a compass that does not need any input except the Earth’s magnetic field. Mike Creek below claims that the Reno FSDO requires a whiskey compass. Since my airplane is already built, I would not need to go through a FSDO. Instead, I would have to file a form that says I am going to change the panel. The real problem comes when I am flying around the country, and I have either an accident or the FAA ramp checks me. If I go to Nevada and have an accident, I will be scrooed!
imon Ramirez, Consultant
Synchronous Design, Inc.
Oviedo, FL 32765 USA
407-365-8928: home/office
407-221-8928: mobile
Xilinx Alliance Partner
Copyright © 2007
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Creek
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:23 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection
Hi Eric,
FSDO’s differ somewhat, but I asked the Reno, NV office that question and was told I would still need a whiskey compass. I’m equipped with a GRT Sport EFIS (with GPS and magnetometer), GPS496, TT AP, and SL30. So that is two GPS’s, two magnetometers, and a VOR; and they still want a whiskey compass even though they are mostly useless in a tube and rag air frame. Go figure…
You may want to call your local FSDO and ask; I hope you have better luck than I did.
A question for the group though, given at least one of us has to install a compass are there any recommendations for brand/type and for locations in a tube airframe?
Thanks,
Mike Creek
Bearhawk QB
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Newton
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:27 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com; bearhawkers; Bearhawk(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection
I'll soon be getting my Bearhawk ready for final FAA (or DAR) inspection and have a question.
Does anyone know if the remote compass that displays the heading information on my Dynon D100 qualifies as the required compass with the FAA. My thinking is that it isn't too different than a panel mounted vertical card compass with a remote sender.
What do you guys/gals think?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682- Mississippi Mudbug
BEARHAWK BUILDER'S MANUALS
http://mybearhawk.com
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
| Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
[quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
The new Excel Legacy jet do no longer have a whiskey compass 
So get one byside of your plane so he can crosscheck
Do not archive
Werner
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Good Evening Eric,
I don't really know, but I will bet a milkshake the FAA won't buy it.
The Douglas DC-8 was built without a magnetic compass because it had
so many electronic heading sources available. When it came to
certification time, the FAA would not approve it without a whiskey
compass.
Douglas had no good place to mount it up front, so they placed it in
the overhead behind the captain's seat. They then mounted a couple of
mirrors on the glare shield and a mirror behind the compass. By
flipping the mirrors up, the captain and the copilot could look via
the mirrors at the compass.
In all the years I flew the DC-8. I never once looked at the compass
other than during the preflight. We checked that it was there and
that the light turned on when the switch was flipped. I only did that
because it was a required preflight check list item.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/24/2007 7:32:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,
enewton57(at)cableone.net writes:
Does anyone know if the remote compass that displays the heading
information on my Dynon D100 qualifies as the required compass
with the FAA. My thinking is that it isn't too different than a
panel mounted vertical card compass with a remote sender.
What do you guys/gals think?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
<http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001>
and top money wasters
<http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002>
of 2007.
*
*
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.N
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Hi John
"Come to
| Quote: | think of it, every aircraft including hot air balloons needed to meet
that requirement until a few years ago when the LTA's were exempted."
|
Hot Air balloons were exempt from needing a compass before at least 1979.
Ron Parigoris
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Okay, so it was back in 1973-1979. Wow, am I getting old. Steering
them to the intended target was the fun back then, with or without the
obnoxious compass.
John
--
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
S. Ramirez wrote:
| Quote: | Dick,
Below is a response to an email on the Aeroelectric List forum. It
discusses whether the whisky compass is required. I claim that the FARs
require a compass that does not need any input except the Earth's magnetic
field. Mike Creek below claims that the Reno FSDO requires a whiskey
compass. Since my airplane is already built, I would not need to go through
a FSDO. Instead, I would have to file a form that says I am going to change
the panel. The real problem comes when I am flying around the country, and
I have either an accident or the FAA ramp checks me. If I go to Nevada and
have an accident, I will be scrooed!
I've heard rumors that a $2, suction-cup base, water-filled compass from
|
the dollar stare is sufficient to satisfy the bean counters.
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.N
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Hi John
"> Okay, so it was back in 1973-1979. Wow, am I getting old. Steering
| Quote: | them to the intended target was the fun back then, with or without the
obnoxious compass."
|
Ironic, but I now find a compass useful once in a while for navagating
balloon out of wilderness!
Ron Parigoris
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
339.48 KB |
| Viewed: |
195 Time(s) |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Now, that is my kinda gondola. I particularly like the comfort stations. However, will that puny little burner actually get the bag light enough to lift the Gondola? How about a full blown quadro instead? And, how big a bag? I doubt if my 55,000 footer would have budged it before it melted!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/25/2007 3:09:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US writes:
| Quote: |
Ironic, but I now find a compass useful once in a while for navigating
balloon out of wilderness!
Ron Parigoris
|
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.N
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Hi Bob
"> However, will that puny little burner actually get the bag light enough
to lift
| Quote: | the Gondola? How about a full blown quadro instead? And, how big a bag?"
|
I build that puny little burner in 1985. I needed something light when
driving. It uses 36 feet of Inconel 600 3/8" .035" wall. "IT IS 30,000,000
BTUs!!!". On in other words ~ 7,500 hp (converted BTUs to calories then to
HP). Compared to a 10,000,000 BTU Raven RX-6 burner that uses 1 pound in a
4.3 second blast, this beast uses 3 pounds in 4.3 seconds! Notice it locks
in position for ground ops. Even compared to todays standards, it is right
there! Very blue flame, tight and I adjusted where we can't hear a lot of
noise (used 13 strategic adjustable aim jets, dogs sure can hear noise!
Had a Golden Retriever (wanted to change heritage to balloon retriever)
when would shoot burner would go into bedroom closet and not come out!)
Envelope is 95,036 cubic feet (weighs 236 lbs) Big "8" ball
The closest thing at the time, a Honda Oddysey weighs in at 450 lbs
without any provisions for tanks, burner and associated things to fly, and
only carries 1 person. "Screwball" weighs in at 140lbs drivable (22HP 6
speed) and carries 3 people (can hang 1 person from top of balloon!)
Flight ready with 31 gallons is 600lbs.
During certification I loaded up balloon trailer and lifted 2750 lbs.
Usual like to fly 15 pounds per thousand, flys OK even at 20, at 30 its a
dog. Have had a 7 hour and 15 minute flight with a pretty heavy take off
weight. Real drag having to carry tank-age when empty.
Ron Parigoris
NJ8AX "Screwball" Balloon has 4 wheels and flies
N4211W Europa Monowheel (work in ProgMess) has 4 wheels and flies
Garbage trucks too have 4 wheels and flies
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
283.76 KB |
| Viewed: |
205 Time(s) |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gmcjetpilot
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
You absolutly DO NOT NEED ANOTHER COMPASS or Non-electric compass.
Call the EAA legal department. They don't work in a vacuum, they work with the FAA.
If a DAR denies you based on NOT having an OLD Jelly Jar compass with deviation, lead/lag and parallax, he's wrong. FAA has "regulatory guide lines" that do not show up to the general public.
Her is the ignorance WE DO NOT HAVE TO MEET PART 23 AT ALL. That is where is says you need one non-electric compass. Experimental is not a PART 23 plane.
Part 91 does NOT say you must have a non-electric compass.
Also get realistic. Not only do you have a magnetic indicator, albeit electric you have GPS with track. In the airlines I have not flown a heading in 13 years, we fly TRACK UP on the EFIS. Who cares what your heading is if you can TRACK.
As illogical as it seems, you can fly without a compass at all in an experimental for VFR day. However for VFR night/IFR you do need a compass. Again don't argue, just call the EAA legal or someone in the FSDO that knows what going on and get your proof. I know some guys that add the wet compass and try and swing it, but what a waste of time. You will never use it. Now if IFR, yea put one in from common sense, as a good backup.
Cheers George
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chasb(at)satx.rr.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
I had a buddy who got his inspection from a Ft Worth area DAR who
wouldn't certify the bird because there was no magnetic compass. So,
my buddy goes to his car, pries a $2.95 car wash compass off his
rearview mirror and stuck it on the windscreen of his RV. The DAR
passed him.
Do not archive.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
enewton57(at)cableone.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
I'm really thinking about having one handy just in case. If the DAR says
something, I can mount it within a few minutes. If not - I'm good to go as
is and I'll return the compass for a refund.
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682- Mississippi Mudbug
BEARHAWK BUILDER'S MANUALS
http://mybearhawk.com
---
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
Good Evening Ron,
Absolutely fabulous!
A lot has changed since I had my Raven!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/25/2007 4:34:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US writes:
| Quote: | During certification I loaded up balloon trailer and lifted 2750 lbs.
Usual like to fly 15 pounds per thousand, flys OK even at 20, at 30 its a
dog. Have had a 7 hour and 15 minute flight with a pretty heavy take off
weight. Real drag having to carry tank-age when empty.
Ron Parigoris
|
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
I hesitate to get involved in a "discussion" with George
(gmcjetpilot). He is correct about type certified aircraft
needing a "nonstabilized magnetic compass" but homebuilts only
needing a "Magnetic Direction Indicator" But his statement "you
can fly without a compass at all in an experimental for VFR day.
However for VFR night/IFR you do need a compass" is in error.
AOPA always advises in their CFI refresher clinics to reply to
any FAR question with "I don't know. Let's read what they say."
Parts 23 (General Aviation and Commuter) and 25 (Transport) cover
certification of aircraft. They contain the only reference in
the FARs to a compass equipment requirement. And they don't
apply to homebuilt experimental aircraft. By reference, we do
have to comply with 91.205 which covers required equipment for
day VFR, night VFR and IFR (day or night) among other conditions.
91.205(b) is day VFR. 91.205(b)(3) requires a "Magnetic
Direction Indicator" without any other qualification. This is
the legal authority to use a Dynon in lieu of a wet compass.
91.205(c) covers night VFR. It says you must have the stuff in
91.205(b) and then some other stuff (lights, etc.) but no other
reference to direction. But we have already established
91.205(b) doesn't require a compass. Thus neither does 91.205(c)
for night VFR.
91.205(d) is for IFR. Same story. It requires the stuff in
91.205(b) and, for night, the stuff in 91.205(c) and then a lot
of other stuff without reference to any compass. 91.205(d)(9)
does require a "Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro
or equivalent)". The "or equivalent" is what lets the Dynon also
be acceptable for IFR.
Bottom line there is no *legal* requirement for a homebuilt
experimental aircraft to have a compass for day, night or IFR.
But I still have one to avoid hassles (and as a backup).
The idea of temporarily mounting a cheap compass might put you in
a gray area. It can be argued if your plane was certified with a
compass then it must always have a compass. Removal might give
an out to an insurance company or a justification to a "helpful"
FAA ramp or accident inspector.
Tom Kuffel
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deej(at)deej.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA Inspection |
|
|
The Kuffels wrote:
| Quote: |
By reference, we do have to comply with 91.205 which covers required
equipment for day VFR, night VFR and IFR (day or night) among other
conditions.
|
As far as I can tell, experimental aircraft flying day VFR do not
have to comply with 91.205. Your Operating Limitations on your
experimental aircraft generally say something like "After completion of
Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or
instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be
operated under VFR, day only".
91.205 itself says " Powered civil aircraft with standard category
U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment
requirements.", which does not apply to experimental aircraft on its
own, but only by reference to the above statement in your Operating
Limitations.
It would appear that experimental aircraft only have to follow
91.205 if flying at night or IFR.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
