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vetdrem

Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 62

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

I sure hope that this isn't viewed as a REALLY stupid question, but, here goes.



Can a Kitfox be taxied with the wings folded?  It sure would make the trip from my hanger to the runway a lot easier.  I don't know if the differential braking would snap the tail wheel out of the detents and allow turns or not.  



Please be kink, I'm sensitive.  



vetdrem

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

With the extra weight on the tail wheel I personally wouldn't try it.  Also

if the tail spring breaks you will also lose your wings.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

josandt(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

I find this message disturbing. Kitfox.



<<vetdrem>>

<<Please be kinky, I'm sensitive. >>



DO NOT ARCHIVE

John Sandt, Ridgecrest

LarryM

Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
Location: Genoa, IL

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded

I concur with Noel.



Larry

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded

Vetdrem, I'll be kind,

When I think about taxing with the wings folded all kinds of reasons not to come to mind.  The weight on the tail spring is a major deterrent.



I take it that between your hangar and the runway there are obstructions to spreading the wings?  I would invest in a four wheel motorcycle, an old pickup, riding lawnmower, utility trailer, anything I could set the tail wheel on with the wings folded and tow it out there.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

temco(at)telusplanet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

John



I think what the writer probably meant was ""please be kind I'm sensitive""

meaning that don't flame me as I'm just asking a question that some may

perceive to be a silly.



DO NOT ARCHIVE



Hope that helps.



Ted Palamarek

Kitfox IV - 912

Edmonton, Ab



--

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

At 03:05 PM 11/27/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I sure hope that this isn't viewed as a REALLY stupid question, but, 

here goes.



Can a Kitfox be taxied with the wings folded?  It sure would make 

the trip from my hanger to the runway a lot easier.  I don't know if 

the differential braking would snap the tail wheel out of the 

detents and allow turns or not.


	


OMIGAWD, that is the STUPIDEST question I ever heard! I CAN'T believe 

you asked it.  (We entertain all questions here, even ones you may 

think are stupid. And we frequently give stupid answers. By the way, 

I actually didn't think it was a very stupid question. You'll have to 

try a lot harder.)



Of course a Kitfox can be taxied with the wings folded.You'll only be 

able to go straight ahead, and you'll want to be exceedingly careful 

because of the excessive load on the tailwheel, wings, and fuselage, 

but it will taxi just fine. (It won't turn because the flaperons lie 

next to the rudder, preventing it, and subsequently the tail wheel, 

from turning. You could rig the wings to fold partially to a position 

that would allow the rudder full travel and you'd be able to turn. 

You'd then just have to deal with the loads issue.)

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

Guys sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Of course a Kitfox can be taxied with the wings folded.You'll only 

be able to go straight ahead, and you'll want to be exceedingly 

careful because of the excessive load on the tailwheel, wings, and 

fuselage, but it will taxi just fine.


	


I have to respectfully disagree with my esteemed colleague.  I think 

trying to taxi a Kitfox with the wings folded is a really, really bad 

idea.  It seems like a sure-fire way to damage the tail wheel 

assembly, at least, and likely the entire airplane since you won't be 

able to steer.



Mike G.

N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

On Nov 28, 2007, at 2:35 AM, Tom Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I take it that between your hangar and the runway there are 

 obstructions to spreading the wings?  I would invest in a four wheel 

 motorcycle, an old pickup, riding lawnmower, utility trailer, anything 

 I could set the tail wheel on with the wings folded and tow it out 

 there.


	


I was once considering folding my wings, not to taxi but to get easier 

in the hangar. I thought that the best way to manoeuvre the plane would 

then be by building a tail dolly. Imagine a pyramid upside-down, built 

in steel or even wood. On the 'top' a free-castoring wheel. On the 

'base' two holes in which I put a long bolt that goes in the tube used 

for an eventual dorsal fin (at least, on my model 3 - don't know about 

other models). The rest of the 'base' is padded to receive the 

fuselage.

To put on the dolly, I fix the bolt then lift the tail and the 

'pyramid' goes in an upside-down position.



The advantages are: It is easier to fold the wings when the plane is 

level; less weight pulling the wings backward. It is then probably 

possible to fold and unfold the wings alone. Next, you don't have to 

remove the fuel that may leak from having the wing folded.



If one has to taxi that one, one should also consider putting a stopper 

on the pedals so that no pressure is put on the rudder while one is 

still able to 'steer' by differential braking.



Just a thought.

Cheers,



Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

I thought about this and the first thing that came to mind is that you 

likely wont taxi far, and you have to bleed the fuel system before takeoff. 

Most kitfoxes with wings folded have a limited fuel load to keep the vents 

from bleeding fuel. As you fold the wings what fuel there is tends to move 

away from the pickups, so you may be running on the header tank only and 

introducing air.



People who actually have FLYING Kitfoxes may find this is wrong, it's just 

the way I figured it would turn out.



Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582

do not archive

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:17 am Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded

I few of my thoughts on the "idea"



I would not want to travel with  folded wings without wing root braces.



Then you have to fold out your wings and possibly would have missing hardware that you forgot, hence a trip back to hangar.



Heavy load on tail wheel spring.



Lack of being able to have full fuel tanks.



End of flapperons come into cabin and might hit you in back of head? 



Where you going to put turtle deck ?



If Controlled airport -- might be an issue trying to get a clearance to unfold your wings on taxiway.?



Basically I have no idea why anyone would to do this, perhaps you could advise us of the reason you ask to do this ? If there an issue  of taxing with wings folded?  Your Kitfox wings are likely 10 times or more stronger  rigged than folded, alot of strain  on the rear spar at the first rib.   Besides,  you are better off getting it all rigged and checked over without having the feeling of having to rush .

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

Get an old skidoo and mount tundra tires where the skis are...makes a great

little tractor.  Without going the power route you could make a dolly for

the tail wheel.   It should take the load just in front of the tail spring

and the dolly will need to be able to handle a load of close to 150 lb. To

give a margin of strength.  Open the wings, temporarily to put the tail up

on the dolly and to take it down.  You could leave the tail up on the dolly

in the garage too.



I think an American Flyer wagon will probably be a bit too light but you can

build something using old bicycle wheels.  The larger the wheel the easier

it will be to pull.  Oh yes pulling is easier than pushing.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

No silly questions in my book.  I'd sooner a person ask than damage his

plane.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded

OK, I haven't been flamed in a while so I'll just blurt it out. I know a lot

of people are thinking it anyway.



You're crazy, that is a stupid idea for more reason's than there is time

in the day to answer. If you reply, with the same question my four year

old would, which is "why?". Then in my opinion you should be banished

from the list - Forever.



Ok, one little elaboration. BECAUSE the next question you'll ask is -

Can I fly it with the wings folded, sort of like an F-14?



Ok, I don't text message on the cellphone, but I think the appropriate

mesg would be ROFLMAO







Regards,

Jeff.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

Gee whiz Jeff, you shouldn't sugar coat things so much!  

Deke

do not archive



Subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 OK, I haven't been flamed in a while so I'll just blurt it out. I know a 

 lot

 of people are thinking it anyway.



 You're crazy, that is a stupid idea for more reason's than there is time

 in the day to answer. If you reply, with the same question my four year

 old would, which is "why?". Then in my opinion you should be banished

 from the list - Forever.



 Ok, one little elaboration. BECAUSE the next question you'll ask is -

 Can I fly it with the wings folded, sort of like an F-14?



 Ok, I don't text message on the cellphone, but I think the appropriate

 mesg would be ROFLMAO



 



 Regards,

 Jeff.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149183#149183

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

Ok you must have some kind of obstruction between the hanger and the runway

that you cannot pass with the wings out.  That said I would not taxi with

the wings folded as you have cut the mounting surface in half ( front wing

bolt removed ) and left the leading edge unsupported.  This could cause a

twisting force on the wing that it was not designed to take.  In a worst

case scenario breaking the epoxy joint between the spar and rib in a place

that is not easily found.  That is just my opinion and I am in no way an

expert.



--

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded

Oh, yeah I know, this is the kinder, gentler, more diplomatic version of

me. Plus it's the holiday season and all.



OK - Perhaps, there's a reasonable explanation for wanting to taxi with

wings folded, but it's just too good an opportunity to pass up.



Jeff



 	  Fox5flyer wrote: 	
		  Gee whiz Jeff, you shouldn't sugar coat things so much!  

Deke

do not archive



Subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

Michel:



I like the idea of your inverted pyramid.  I think you could use the through

tubes in the frame for the tow bar.  I agree 100% with it being easier to

fold the wings with the tail up.  It would also be easy to install a tow bar

(for handling) on the lip of the inverted pyramid.



As for taxiing with the wings folded ... Not on my plane!  Tail up or down!



Noel

 	  Quote: 	
		   I was once considering folding my wings, not to taxi but to get easier

 in the hangar. I thought that the best way to manoeuvre the plane would

 then be by building a tail dolly. Imagine a pyramid upside-down, built

 in steel or even wood. On the 'top' a free-castoring wheel. On the

 'base' two holes in which I put a long bolt that goes in the tube used

 for an eventual dorsal fin (at least, on my model 3 - don't know about

 other models). The rest of the 'base' is padded to receive the

 fuselage.

 To put on the dolly, I fix the bolt then lift the tail and the

 'pyramid' goes in an upside-down position.

 

 The advantages are: It is easier to fold the wings when the plane is

 level; less weight pulling the wings backward. It is then probably

 possible to fold and unfold the wings alone. Next, you don't have to

 remove the fuel that may leak from having the wing folded.

 

 If one has to taxi that one, one should also consider putting a stopper

 on the pedals so that no pressure is put on the rudder while one is

 still able to 'steer' by differential braking.

 

 Just a thought.

 Cheers,

 

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: taxy with the wings folded

If you consider yourself flamed, I'll consider myself flamed too.



Noel



P.S. Can is expect to gain a bit of airspeed if I fly with the wings

folded???  Will it affect any VGs???  Lol



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded

if you taxi with the wings open, it opens the doors for a lot of fun when there is a bunch of snow on the taxi ways.  Get yourself going and hit one brake and get it sliding sideways, real fun.

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