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Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising
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jedwards(at)digital.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

I’m OK with buying kits from the Philippines or any other democracy.  (I don’t think they build the kits in Czechoslovakia anymore).  

   

But I do have a problem buying from communist countries.  The workers in China are paid very little, no health care, no industrial safety, and no say in anything.  Why aren’t the unions focusing there efforts there!!!  On the other hand, I can see supporting a struggling democracy, improving their economy by international trade, where people have a voice to facilitate change.    

   

(Good grief, I sound like a politician)  

   

John Edwards  

RV-9A – Empennage  

      

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Watson

 Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:04 PM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising  

  

   

So our money ought to go to the Philippines rather than China? Vans have their quickbuild kits assembled in the Philippines and Czechoslovakia. My Toyota pickup was assembled in California. We have a world economy and we all benefit from it. Most products of any significant complexity are assembled from parts all over the world, just like the Boeing 787.   

   

Terry  

RV-8A N838T (Reserved) – not built in the Philippines, if that could possibly matter to anyone  

   

       [quote][b]

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

On 7:14 2007-12-01 "jedwards" <jedwards(at)digital.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   But I do have a problem buying from communist countries.  The workers

 in China are paid very little, no health care, no industrial safety,

 and no say in anything.  Why aren't the unions focusing there efforts

 there!!!


	


As someone who works for a company who outsources manufacturing to China

(and other countries), I have to say that this isn't completely true.  I've

visited two of our contract manufacturers in China, and know first-hand

that workers there are treated better than average, if your description

above is average.



There may be factories in China making products for use in China, that

westerners don't ever see.  But our company at least has strict controls

over our contract manufacturers requiring them to be ISO certified, and to

uphold standards for the ethical treatment of workers.  Yes, we pay a

little more for that, but it's still cheaper than paying people in North

America to do the same thing.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On the other hand, I can see supporting a struggling

 democracy, improving their economy by international trade, where

 people have a voice to facilitate change.


	


Are you referring to the US, or are you still thinking about the

Phillipines?  



-Rob

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

China is a strange case that many of us would not have thought possible twenty years ago – a relatively free market operating in a politically oppressive communist state. I still believe (hope) that free markets will bring free minds.  

   

In an ethical sense, I believe we should buy from the source that gives us the best value for our money, regardless of the race or ethnicity or home town or political system under which it was made – with some limited exceptions. Slave labor, such as China has been accused of using in the past, is unacceptable. It’s hard to imagine a justification for buying anything built in North   Korea, for example, but that is a mute point because I am unaware of anything of value being built there for export other than nuclear weapons.  

   

By rewarding those who give us the best value for our money, we are making the system work and encouraging the thing that is at the heart of making us all better off – productivity.   

   

Each of us may have different reasons for our decisions beyond the best value for the money. Some may want to insist that their coffee is “fair trade” certified. I do not. Many want to know that their building materials have some kind of “sustainable” stamp of approval. I don’t. I think markets do a decent job with those issues, even though others will strongly disagree. It does concern me that China’s explosive growth is giving technological power to a country that is still a potential enemy, but economies that are tightly entwined have every reason to avoid conflict.  

   

China is rushing through an industrial revolution at unprecedented speed. The current flap about lead paint I see as a part of that revolution. Some Chinese manufacturers were careless or took a short cut and now they and other Chinese manufacturers are paying a very steep price for it. You can bet that if they didn’t know how important their reputation was to their profit before, they certainly do now.  

   

The world is changing at an ever increasing pace. We have to adjust to it or we will get left out of the great things that change has to offer, but we have to do it without losing or compromising the values and principles that make it all worthwhile.  

   

And leave it to Kevin to mess up a good flame party with some facts!    

   

Terry  

   

   

   

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jedwards

 Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:15 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising  

  

   

I’m OK with buying kits from the Philippines or any other democracy.  (I don’t think they build the kits in Czechoslovakia anymore).  

   

But I do have a problem buying from communist countries.  The workers in China are paid very little, no health care, no industrial safety, and no say in anything.  Why aren’t the unions focusing there efforts there!!!  On the other hand, I can see supporting a struggling democracy, improving their economy by international trade, where people have a voice to facilitate change.    

   

(Good grief, I sound like a politician)  

   

John Edwards  

RV-9A – Empennage  

      

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Watson

 Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:04 PM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising  

  

   

So our money ought to go to the Philippines rather than China? Vans have their quickbuild kits assembled in the Philippines and Czechoslovakia. My Toyota pickup was assembled in California. We have a world economy and we all benefit from it. Most products of any significant complexity are assembled from parts all over the world, just like the Boeing 787.   

   

Terry  

RV-8A N838T (Reserved) – not built in the Philippines, if that could possibly matter to anyone  

   [quote] [b]

gmcjetpilot

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

World economy. The corporations will not be happy until our USA standard of living declines as other nations rise to meet ours. The ONE WORLD Economy. Just one more reason NOT to buy a Cessna or LSA ever ever ever again. Between China huge trade advantage and India raining US jobs, while US jobs disappear is enough to discourage you. I say a BIG up yours Cessna. 

   

  THAT IS WHY I HATE LSA's, most are foreign made. How did we, America, write FAR's that favored so many foreign planes and engines (Rotax) and not our own industry?  I knew it was bull when all of sudden we had 40 LSA planes from companies that I never heard of. Of course they hide behind some US distributor address. 



  I am going to write all my Reps, Cessna, AOPA and EAA. G  (Woun't do any good but I'll feel better for a minute.)



        Be a better pen pal.   [quote][b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

//THAT IS WHY I  HATE LSA's, most are foreign made. How did we, America, write FAR's that  favored so many foreign planes and engines (Rotax) and not our own  industry?  I knew it was bull when all of sudden we had 40 LSA planes from  companies that I never heard of. Of course they hide behind some US distributor  address. 

 

 So if I have this straight. We favor capitalism -- which is  a free-market economy -- until...... ?

  

 If you're not flying LSAs, what do you care what engine is  used to power them?

  

 This debate reminds me of the old debates when shopping  malls sprung up on the outskirts of towns and then the downtowns declined.   Lots of people kvetched about the decline of downtowns, and all of them were in  a position to do something about it when it mattered: shop  downtown.

  

 If Lycoming announces tomorrow that their engines are going  to be built in Germany or France, are you going to park YOUR  airplane?

  

 I didn't think so.

  

 The response to competition isn't to stifle it. It's to be  the beneficiary of it, by being better.

  

 My guess is you folks aren't worried that the stuff coming  from China is cheap junk. You're worried that it won't  be.

  

 Everyone points to Detroit as what happens because of  foreign competition. Nonsense. Detroit's automakers spent the first half of the  last generation building stuff people didn't want and the last half trying to  change the laws so it didn't matter.

  

 And they still haven't learned their lesson. I get to  dictate what i'll buy based on whatever factors *I* want to consider. If you  want my business, satisfy me. If you can't, don't try to limit my  choices.

  

 The American Way is to be better. So stop complaining. Be  better.

  

 Do not archive

    [quote][b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

Bob,

 I, for one, appreciate your calling it as it is!!!

 Richard

 

 Bob Collins wrote:

 [quote]         //THAT IS WHY I HATE LSA's, most are foreign made. How did we, America, write FAR's that favored so many foreign planes and engines (Rotax) and not our own industry?  I knew it was bull when all of sudden we had 40 LSA planes from companies that I never heard of. Of course they hide behind some US distributor address. 

    

   So if I have this straight. We favor capitalism -- which is a free-market economy -- until...... ?

    

   If you're not flying LSAs, what do you care what engine is used to power them?

    

   This debate reminds me of the old debates when shopping malls sprung up on the outskirts of towns and then the downtowns declined.  Lots of people kvetched about the decline of downtowns, and all of them were in a position to do something about it when it mattered: shop downtown.

    

   If Lycoming announces tomorrow that their engines are going to be built in Germany or France, are you going to park YOUR airplane?

    

   I didn't think so.

    

   The response to competition isn't to stifle it. It's to be the beneficiary of it, by being better.

    

   My guess is you folks aren't worried that the stuff coming from China is cheap junk. You're worried that it won't be.

    

   Everyone points to Detroit as what happens because of foreign competition. Nonsense. Detroit's automakers spent the first half of the last generation building stuff people didn't want and the last half trying to change the laws so it didn't matter.

    

   And they still haven't learned their lesson. I get to dictate what i'll buy based on whatever factors *I* want to consider. If you want my business, satisfy me. If you can't, don't try to limit my choices.

    

   The American Way is to be better. So stop complaining. Be better.

    

   Do not archive

    	  Quote: 	
		  

	
 [b]

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

How 'bout Them Red Sox!!



Deems Davis # 406

'Its all done....Its just not put together'

http://deemsrv10.com/*

*

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

From:  owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of  jedwards



         I’m  OK with buying kits from the Philippines or any other  democracy.  (I don’t think they build the kits in Czechoslovakia  anymore). 

 [quote]      

But I do have a    problem buying from communist countries.  The workers in    China are paid very little, no    health care, no industrial safety, and no say in anything.  Why aren’t    the unions focusing there efforts there!!!  On the other hand, I can see    supporting a struggling democracy, improving their economy by international    trade, where people have a voice to facilitate change.        

    

(Good grief, I sound    like a politician)   

    

John    Edwards   

RV-9A –    Empennag

   

In spite of the low wages, one    advantage of the Chinese system of industrial safety and protection of the    environment is very few workers end up spending their retirement years in    poverty---most don't live that long.    

    

Chuck   

    

    

  

[b]

ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

Rans LSA's are not foreign made and we don't have an engine that comes close to the Rotax specs.

 Ollie  Rans S7S   198 trouble free hrs. since Feb.07  Also RV6A with over 1000 hrs.

 On Dec 1, 2007 1:05 PM,  <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  World economy. The corporations will not be happy until our USA standard of living declines as other nations rise to meet ours. The ONE WORLD Economy. Just one more reason NOT to buy a Cessna or LSA ever ever ever again. Between China huge trade advantage and India raining US jobs, while US jobs disappear is enough to discourage you. I say a BIG up yours Cessna.  

   

  THAT IS WHY I HATE LSA's, most are foreign made. How did we, America, write FAR's that favored so many foreign planes and engines (Rotax) and not our own industry?  I knew it was bull when all of sudden we had 40 LSA planes from companies that I never heard of. Of course they hide behind some US distributor address.  



  I am going to write all my Reps, Cessna, AOPA and EAA. G  (Woun't do any good but I'll feel better for a minute.)



        Be a better pen pal.    [/b] 	


[b]

truflite(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

--- Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <rv7(at)b4.ca>

 

 On 7:14 2007-12-01 "jedwards" <jedwards(at)digital.net>

 wrote:

 > But I do have a problem buying from communist

 countries.  The workers

 > in China are paid very little, no health care, no

 industrial safety,

 > and no say in anything.  Why aren't the unions

 focusing there efforts

 > there!!!

 

 As someone who works for a company who outsources

 manufacturing to China

 (and other countries), I have to say that this isn't

 completely true.  I've

 visited two of our contract manufacturers in China,

 and know first-hand

 that workers there are treated better than average,

 if your description

 above is average.

 

 There may be factories in China making products for

 use in China, that

 westerners don't ever see.  But our company at least

 has strict controls

 over our contract manufacturers requiring them to be

 ISO certified, and to

 uphold standards for the ethical treatment of

 workers.  Yes, we pay a

 little more for that, but it's still cheaper than

 paying people in North

 America to do the same thing.

 


	




So you would put your neighbor out of work to put an

extra buck in your pocket?  God help us all.



 	  Quote: 	
		   > On the other hand, I can see supporting a

 struggling

 > democracy, improving their economy by

 international trade, where

 > people have a voice to facilitate change.

 

 Are you referring to the US, or are you still

 thinking about the

 Phillipines?  

 

 -Rob

 

 



 Click on

 about

 Admin.



 browse

 Un/Subscription,

 FAQ,



 Forums!



 

 

 

 


	


Be a better pen pal. 

Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.  http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/

truflite(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

My sentiments exactly.  Take care of the USA first and

if their is anything left over, give it away.



Dave



--- gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   World economy. The corporations will not be happy

 until our USA standard of living declines as other

 nations rise to meet ours. The ONE WORLD Economy.

 Just one more reason NOT to buy a Cessna or LSA ever

 ever ever again. Between China huge trade advantage

 and India raining US jobs, while US jobs disappear

 is enough to discourage you. I say a BIG up yours

 Cessna. 

    

   THAT IS WHY I HATE LSA's, most are foreign made.

 How did we, America, write FAR's that favored so

 many foreign planes and engines (Rotax) and not our

 own industry?  I knew it was bull when all of sudden

 we had 40 LSA planes from companies that I never

 heard of. Of course they hide behind some US

 distributor address. 

 

   I am going to write all my Reps, Cessna, AOPA and

 EAA. G  (Woun't do any good but I'll feel better for

 a minute.)

 

        

 ---------------------------------

 Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends

 inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.


	


Be a better sports nut!  Let your teams follow you 

with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ

truflite(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

Not likely but possible:

Bob Collins goes to work Monday morning and finds a

note on his desk, see the boss.  He goes to the bosses

office and finds him with a somber look.  "Bob, the

country is out of work, because everything is

outsourced, made in China and India.  Nobody is

donating to Public Television, our last telethon was a

flop.  We have to lay you off. Sorry Bob".



What do you do now?



This could effect everyone in this country.  I respect

your right to choose, but you have to choose with more

than your pocketbook.  Choose with your future in

mind.  Today's young people don't understand this, but

they can hack a computer or a video game or hop up a

little rice grinder that goes way too fast and is

loud.



Balance the trade deficit, a dollar in equals a dollar

out.



In Japan, an American made car sells for at least 50%

of what it would sell for in the states.  Why?  The

government tariffs these vehicles beyond feasibility

of purchase.  This basically means the Japanese

government subsidizes the dumping of Japanese cars

into the USA, and the American public happily buys

them up not feeling one bit of guilt for not

supporting American industry and his neighbor that

works there.  To top it off, our own government could

care less about any of this.  When was the last time

anyone saw the government do anything for the working

class or for all individuals, rich and poor alike,

that did not favor the wealthy?



Bob,



This has been a sore spot for me for well over 15

years as I have been trying to keep my family housed

and fed watching all the jobs disappear, wondering if

this is the day I will get laid off or not.  All I am

trying to do is make people see a point of view they

may have never seen.  Come to Detroit and try and find

a job.  You will be glad that you have a job in

Minnesota.



Buy American, Build American, Be American

--- Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   //THAT IS WHY I HATE LSA's, most are foreign made.

 How did we, America,

 write FAR's that favored so many foreign planes and

 engines (Rotax) and not

 our own industry?  I knew it was bull when all of

 sudden we had 40 LSA

 planes from companies that I never heard of. Of

 course they hide behind some

 US distributor address. 

  

 So if I have this straight. We favor capitalism --

 which is a free-market

 economy -- until...... ?

  

 If you're not flying LSAs, what do you care what

 engine is used to power

 them?

  

 This debate reminds me of the old debates when

 shopping malls sprung up on

 the outskirts of towns and then the downtowns

 declined.  Lots of people

 kvetched about the decline of downtowns, and all of

 them were in a position

 to do something about it when it mattered: shop

 downtown.

  

 If Lycoming announces tomorrow that their engines

 are going to be built in

 Germany or France, are you going to park YOUR

 airplane?

  

 I didn't think so.

  

 The response to competition isn't to stifle it. It's

 to be the beneficiary

 of it, by being better.

  

 My guess is you folks aren't worried that the stuff

 coming from China is

 cheap junk. You're worried that it won't be.

  

 Everyone points to Detroit as what happens because

 of foreign competition.

 Nonsense. Detroit's automakers spent the first half

 of the last generation

 building stuff people didn't want and the last half

 trying to change the

 laws so it didn't matter.

  

 And they still haven't learned their lesson. I get

 to dictate what i'll buy

 based on whatever factors *I* want to consider. If

 you want my business,

 satisfy me. If you can't, don't try to limit my

 choices.

  

 The American Way is to be better. So stop

 complaining. Be better.

  

 Do not archive

 


	


Be a better sports nut!  Let your teams follow you 

with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

I wonder what RV owners/builders/flyers on this list from all over the world

think of that. Take a course in basic economics. This group think -- my

race, my religion, my city, my state my country -- attempts to obscure the

idea that we are all individuals with the same rights to the results of our

efforts as everyone else. It's just that some of us live in countries that

recognize that right more than others.



And along with the course in economics, maybe one in U.S. history to remind

yourself just why this country was created. Let me assure you that it was

NOT to provide a central power to dictate the economic choices of the

citizens -- it was to protect us from those who would try to impose such

control over our lives. 



"Buy American, Build American, Be American"???  Some, including me, find

that downright un-American and more than a little embarrassing. How could

anyone possibly claim the moral high ground by denying their neighbors the

right to make their own economic choices?



Terry



--

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

Just a quick interruption here on the Matronics world economy list for a

truly hysterical observation on the refueling of small

airplanes overseas.

http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/11/the_way_vs_a_way_japan_

v_china.php

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

//flop.  We have to lay you off. Sorry Bob".



//What do you do now?

Are you kidding me? do youknow what business I'm in? I'm in the mainstream

news business.  This isn't a hypothetical scenario, this is what we live

with every day. The newsppaer industry is getting shredded. You know why?

They'll tell yo it's because of CraigsList and Facebook, and the Internet.

I'll tell you because they didn't adapt. They continued to act as if THEY

are the pillar of all information and it'll be news to you when they say it

will be... and you'll take it their way and you'll like it.



and now they're paying the price. Sad? yes. As it should be? Absolutely.



Now, sense you posed the hypothetical, let me tell you exactly what I do.

Because I'm doing it now.



I've been up here in the upper Midwest working for my current employer for

15 years. I was their first editor and I did a great job. When they decided

they wanted to get into online, they asked me to handle the content. And I

did another great job. I invented new ways to tell stories

online...Minnesota Fantasy legislature and Select A Candidate.



and a few weeks ago they asked me to start something new (for us), an online

host/blog that makes the news more personal....that changes the way  (once I

get it perfected) newsrooms relate to the audience. It debuted last night 

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/



Now, i have to tell you I am VERY concerned about this new role because it's

full of risk in a business on short margins. I've spent many sleepless

nights the last few weeks wondering what I'll do if it doens't work out.

Even considering stopping the RV project to put more emergency funds away.



So what do I do? I work hard and I try to shape this thing and I try to make

it as popular as I've made the other things I've worked on here.



Do I appreciate having a job? You bet. Do I have a right to keep that job?

Absolutely not. I have to EARN my way right up until the day I retire.



If I lose my job tomorrow, I'm 53 in a dying industry... I probably won't be

able to get another job that will pay me as much as I make now. So I'll do

the best I can, work at Home Depot if I have to, may be shop an article or

two, cut some expenses, and try to figure out a niche that I can fill in a

competitive world.



This is the way life is. We can either waste our energy wish it weren't so.

Or we do what we can to make it better.



By the way, the broad sweeping generalization of "today's kids" make me want

to throw up.  



Y'all need to stop your whining and stop looking at everyone else as the

source of your problems. Your closets are full of shirts make overseas, your

garages have foreign cars... your tool chests are full of stuff made in

China and nobody put any of those things there but you.



Can we get to talking about building freakin' RVs now?



Do not archive

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

Food for thought........

video takes about 3 minutes



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/shifthappens



do not archive

_________________
Milt

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

Unless I misinterpreted, the presentation suggested that people having 10-14

different jobs by age 38 is a BAD thing.



My youngest son, age 19 now, has had... let's see 7 so far. Of course he had

3 at once when he was a senior in high school.



One of those "kids today that are too lazy to work," probably.  He went out

last night, I noticed, with a girl down the street who was a 4.0 student in

high school... will graduate next year from college with a degree in biology

and could probably strike it rich, but she wants to come back to town... and

be a teacher. I guess so that she can hear constantly from people with 1/4th

the I.Q. -- and certainly the knowledge -- about what a terrible job she's

doing and how lazy she is.



I'm not too worried about the next generation.  The best we can do is

probably get out of their way. They're going to make us proud.



I come from a country of optimists with a "can do" spirit.   No worries.



Do not archive. 



--

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

JohnInReno

Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

Thanks, Bob



I couldn't have said it better. But then, I don't write for a living.



I would add that I find it hard to accept that a person capable of 

building an airplane would resort to playing the "victim" card.



John Morgensen



Bob Collins wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 //flop.  We have to lay you off. Sorry Bob".

 

 //What do you do now?

 

 

 Are you kidding me? do youknow what business I'm in? I'm in the mainstream

 news business.  This isn't a hypothetical scenario, this is what we live

 with every day. The newsppaer industry is getting shredded. You know why?

 They'll tell yo it's because of CraigsList and Facebook, and the Internet.

 I'll tell you because they didn't adapt. They continued to act as if THEY

 are the pillar of all information and it'll be news to you when they say it

 will be... and you'll take it their way and you'll like it.

 

 and now they're paying the price. Sad? yes. As it should be? Absolutely.

 

 Now, sense you posed the hypothetical, let me tell you exactly what I do.

 Because I'm doing it now.

 

 I've been up here in the upper Midwest working for my current employer for

 15 years. I was their first editor and I did a great job. When they decided

 they wanted to get into online, they asked me to handle the content. And I

 did another great job. I invented new ways to tell stories

 online...Minnesota Fantasy legislature and Select A Candidate.

 

 and a few weeks ago they asked me to start something new (for us), an online

 host/blog that makes the news more personal....that changes the way  (once I

 get it perfected) newsrooms relate to the audience. It debuted last night 

 http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/

 

 Now, i have to tell you I am VERY concerned about this new role because it's

 full of risk in a business on short margins. I've spent many sleepless

 nights the last few weeks wondering what I'll do if it doens't work out.

 Even considering stopping the RV project to put more emergency funds away.

 

 So what do I do? I work hard and I try to shape this thing and I try to make

 it as popular as I've made the other things I've worked on here.

 

 Do I appreciate having a job? You bet. Do I have a right to keep that job?

 Absolutely not. I have to EARN my way right up until the day I retire.

 

 If I lose my job tomorrow, I'm 53 in a dying industry... I probably won't be

 able to get another job that will pay me as much as I make now. So I'll do

 the best I can, work at Home Depot if I have to, may be shop an article or

 two, cut some expenses, and try to figure out a niche that I can fill in a

 competitive world.

 

 This is the way life is. We can either waste our energy wish it weren't so.

 Or we do what we can to make it better.

 

 By the way, the broad sweeping generalization of "today's kids" make me want

 to throw up.  

 

 Y'all need to stop your whining and stop looking at everyone else as the

 source of your problems. Your closets are full of shirts make overseas, your

 garages have foreign cars... your tool chests are full of stuff made in

 China and nobody put any of those things there but you.

 

 Can we get to talking about building freakin' RVs now?

 

 Do not archive

_________________
John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale

Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

In a message dated 11/27/2007 9:52:36 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  rosesrv6a(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		                                                                            

Ever          wonder how China          makes stuff cheaper than Us ?



                  

 

                           

The          Construction Site Hard Hat

                  

 

                  



                  

The          Dust and Particle Free Breathing Apparatus

                  

 

                  



                  

 

                  

OSHA          Approved Scaffolding

                  

 

                  



                  

 

                  

And          my all-time favorite……..

                  

The          “New” Lightweight Welders Mask

                  

 

                  



	


 

  



Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

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jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising

Having been around a while, I'll just give two examples I observed over my past 68 years. Yes this about unions, of which my grandfather, my dad & myself were members, at Kaiser Steel

  1: Kaiser Steel in Fontana CA. Ya that right..where they built the raceway. Kaiser Steel was attempting to cut costs and compete with Japan in steel production. One of the union mouths said "We aint given nuttin back, Kaiser will never close". The raceway is not near it's on the old steel mill grounds.

  #2: A TV report from Detroit where there was a auto strike going on. Woman in tears, "I don't know what we're going to do, the union fund is not enough to live on". She said this as she got into her new Volvo parked next to the VW Vanogan and Mazada sedan in her diveway as she headed for the market. DUH...could they have been part of the problem ??.   

Buy American when you have a choice...what a concept....    KABONG

 	  Quote: 	
		  Subject: RE: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

"Buy American, Build American, Be American"???  Some, including me, find

that downright un-American and more than a little embarrassing. How could

anyone possibly claim the moral high ground by denying their neighbors the

right to make their own economic choices?



Terry

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