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Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:58 am Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

I've been reading these posts with considerable interest and I hope that 

someone is keeping them or filing them away in some sort of archive where 

this information will be permanently available, possibly via John McBean at 

Kitfox Aircraft, or perhaps Wikipedia.  One thing I noticed was that the 

overall tone of the topic seemed to give Dean Wilson most of the design 

credit and to tone down DD's role in the birth of the Avid history.   Very 

similar to Piper and Taylor.  Having built two Kitfoxes, although I 

certainly don't consider myself any sort of expert on the topic, I've been 

closely involved with Kitfoxes since the early 90s and it's my opinion that 

both of these guys are excellent aircraft designers and both share equally 

in the development of the Kitfox/Avid heritage.  A perfect example of Dan 

Denny's design talent is the Thunder Mustang, one of the fastest homebuilts 

on the planet.  http://www.ksql.com/myriad/thunder.htm

IMO, these guys are very much like the Beatles.  Each was remarkably gifted 

and each made his own unique contribution to the evolution of the 

Kitfox/Avid, but partly due to their amazing talents, it was necessary for 

them to go their separate ways.  As far as who did specifically what, it is 

difficult, if not impossible to accurately gauge this as they were a 

partnership and worked together as a team on the project.

FWIW,

Deke Morisse

S5, NE Michigan and snowed in

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Paul sez:



>...no one except for probably Dean Wilson and Dan Denney know the real 

>story about how the concept developed.



 The article you posted the link to corroborates the previous one well:



 "In the early 1980s, Wilson got his chance when an acquaintance approached 

 him and asked if he'd design an ultralight. Wilson...talked his friend 

 into doing a light Experimental design.



 "Wilson's aforementioned 'acquaintance' wanted to partner with him in a 

 company to produce kits for the Flyer, but the arrangement didn't work 

 out...That 'acquaintance' was Kitfox founder Dan Denney."



 Based on Wilson's own testimony, they both had a part in conceptualizing 

 the Avid Flyer and forming the company that would sell the kits.  No 

 question, it was Wilson's design and he deserves the credit for creating 

 the original, but take away either component of the equation and what we 

 know today as Kitfoxes and Avid Flyers would not exist.  I think both 

 articles reinforces the point that Denney didn't copy the Flyer from 

 outside--he was inside from the conception.



 Would Wilson have gone on to design some great airplanes had be never met 

 Denney?  Sure, but we'd all be flying Light Aero Flyers instead and who 

 knows what they'd look like.



 "He said he wouldn't compete with me after he left, and we shook hands on 

 it."



 And the rest is, as they say, history.  I have never heard Denney's side 

 of the story, but I don't doubt what Wilson is saying.  I'm sure this is 

 why the article doesn't begin with "...a friend approached him...".  And 

 why, when I went to Nampa and Caldwell with my dad in 1991 to check out 

 the two airplanes, the rivalry was in high gear.  I used it to my 

 advantage when we were negotiating the purchase price. 



 Interesting stuff.  Thanks, Paul.



 Mike G.

 N728KF

 Phoenix, AZ

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Deke,



I'm glad to know someone is enjoying all this Avid / Kitfox history banter. 

(smile)



I doubt any of us will ever know what would (or wouldn't?) have happend if 

Dan and Dean never had that discussion about building an ultralight?  But 

assuming Denney at minimum provided the catalyst to get Deans creative 

juices flowing, which ultimately resulted in the creation of the 1st Avid 

Flyer, he certainly deserves some credit.  But not as an aircraft designer. 

Aside from the Thunder Mustang, to my knowledge Dan never created any "new" 

airplanes.  Rather, he just kept modifying the existing Kitfox design.  And 

for the later Kitfox re-designs, I believe he involved engineers (like when 

the III was re-engineered into the IV).  And I could be wrong, but I'd bet 

the Thunder Mustang was mostly a contracted design & build (using 

professional engineers).  It was way too complex of an airplane for your 

average self taught tube and fabric airplane designer to come up with. 

Especially considering the high technology composite construction and 

molding processes used.  But I'm sure the idea to create a scaled down 

homebuilt Mustang was his. I'd be the first to admit the Thunder Mustang was 

a thing of beauty, with performance to match.  But it really wasn't anything 

all that novel.  A scaled down homebuilt P-51 had been built many times 

before.  And once again, it wasn't a new design.  Rather it was a re-design 

of an existing airplane.



Wilson on the other hand has created (designed & built in most cases) many 

very different, and quite novel aircraft.  Most were all unique, original 

designs that incorporated innovative Wilson design elements.   Here's the 

list of the planes Wilson designed as best as I can remember them;



The Bellanca Eagle ag plane, the Avid Flyer (and all of its various 

models/versions), the Avid 3 place Amphibian/Catalina, the Magnum, the 

Ellipse, the Jaegar, the Explorer, the Private Explorer, the Finke "Venetian 

Blind", etc, etc (I'm sure I forgot a few).  And while all of these aircraft 

will bear some trademark of Deans designs, they are for the most part very 

different aircraft with very different missions.  Oh yeah, many were custom 

designed and built "to order" for people like Hubert de Chevigny (the 

Explorer and the Private Explorer).  But to further explain what I've been 

trying to say, just because Mr de Chevigny came up with a wish list and a 

pile of money, that doesn't make him an airplane designer either.  Nor 

should he receive credit for the design Dean provided him with.  It was Dean 

that had to come up with the details needed to build an airplane that would 

meet the buyers mission, and wish list.  And fwiw, I'm certain most aircraft 

designers wouldn't have even considered trying to design airplanes to meet 

the requirments that most of Deans airplanes had to.  Even today, as just 

one simple example, how many low horsepower, inexpensive airplanes can 

easily carry more than they weigh empty?  The Avid did from the word go. 

That's genius in design in my opinion.  While everyone else kept building 

airplanes like the ones before them, Dean always saw things differently, and 

consequently designed and built things in his own way.  That may have 

appeared very unconventional at times, and sometimes not the prettiest, but 

it always worked.



I really don't mean to beat this point to death, but I think it's important 

to keep the history accurate.  Dan was not an aircraft designer.  Dean was.



However, Dan certainly had his strengths.  He knew how to market his 

airplane exceptionally well (even Dean admitted that).  I was around the 

Avid and Kitfox clans as early as 1984.  So I witnessed firsthand some of 

the rivlary.  It was ugly to say the least.  In the early days, I'm 

confident Avid had the better airplane.  But Dan did such a good job of 

marketing that even though his product was somewhat inferior, soon he 

started to outsell Avid.  And it only got worse as Dan's company grew, and 

as he continued to give his already cute little Kitfox more and more sex 

appeal.  And then to make matters worse, both Avid and Kitfox were starting 

to deal with what appeared to be a saturated market.  Then while they fought 

between themselves, competitors started popping up everywhere, only 

worsening each of their market shares.  As time went on it grew more and 

more difficult, leaving little room for two large companies selling 

basically the same product.  So the rest is history...



What I walked away with after watching all that over the years was this;  If 

only Dean and Dan's business relationship had worked out better, I think 

they would have been unstoppable.  I doubt competition and/or others copying 

their designs would have been an issue for them.  With Dan's marketing 

skills promoting the hell out of the airplane the way he could, and Dean 

back in the shop just making the design (or most likely, designs) better and 

better, while also fine tuning production methods, there would have been 

little competition they would have had to worry about.  I always thought it 

was unfortunate that things didn't work out between them.  But so many times 

that's the way it goes in business.  Ironically, if you study the history of 

many of the Avid clones, you will find that history has repeated itself 

again and again, by separating business partners just like Dan and Dean went 

through (e.g.; Sky Raider/Ridge Runner, Montana Coyote/Mountain Eagle, etc) 

I'll probably always wonder what they might have been capable of, and what 

they may have accomplished as a team?  But I guess there's those of us that 

will probably always wonder how things might have been different had the 

Beatles reunited too?  (chuckle)



For any of you that think I am beating a dead horse, I apologize.  I don't 

mean to.  What I had hoped to accomplish here was to make sure anyone that 

wants to know more about the heritage of the wonderful airplanes we enjoy, 

has access to the information.  I'm sure there might be a mistake here and 

there in all this, but for the most part I believe it to be accurate.



I agree we are fortunate Wilson and Denney got together.  And personally, I 

wish they would help us all to understand the story a bit better by clearing 

up any questionable areas.  But I'm going to guess we may never know all the 

details.  And maybe that's best for history?  If nothing else, it certainly 

keeps things in our little world here interesting.



Relative to the discussion, having always found Dean Wilsons airplane 

designs interesting, I saved articles on many ost of them.  If the group 

here would like to learn more about any of Deans designs, I'd be happy to 

share what I have.  Maybe we could post a plane at a time, encouraging some 

fun discussion?  Here's a start with a few pics on "Good News" (aka Venetian 

Blind), as well as Deans twin engined flying boat named "Explorer II", and 

the Private Explorer mentioned.



And here's the brain teaser for the day....Who remembers the 4 seat, folding 

wing, hitch towable, 150+ mph Avid (?) Dean designed and built?



Paul Seehafer



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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Paul and all , great talk in history of the Kitfox and Avid a and designers and marketers etc.



BIG THANKS TO ALL INVOLVED !! 

My you tube videos a few are just about to go over 10,000 views now

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=kitfoxflyer



I can safely say that I have helped sell some Kitfoxes , new or used. 

I think if everyone on  this list that seems to think they know lots about Kitfoxes would put up a video or a few to show the world what a great airplane we have then  John would likely sell more kits and the market for these pathetically low priced Used Kitfoxes would soon dry up and you would see your Kitfox not only continue to be a riot to fly but your investment would grow alot more.   Right now buying a new kit will depreciate  very quickly but a used one should appreciate and in time the new kits might even give a return on investment. 



So Dean and Dan ,  I hope you think my vidoes have helped what you guys have created over the years.

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Interesting, I noticed that Bill Finikies address was Cameron park,   Lowell

did you know this guy?



John Oakley



I'm glad to know someone is enjoying all this Avid / Kitfox history banter. 

(smile)

jtayloraaf(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

to: paul s, michael g, & all of u who are posting on this "history of avid-kitfox" thread, thank u exceedingly. i for one down here in "sout louseyana" am enjoying the hell out of all this.  each new post seems to throw in another "fact" or 2, unknown at least to me & i've been following these 2 designs & some of the clones since i saw the bright red avid on the amphib floats at sun n fun in '91 i believe. so i say "carry on"!  the spirit so far has been friendly & respectful, a great tribute to all of u. & paul, i'd love to see the material u've gathered over the years on the various planes. as a former professional historian myself i find everyone's contributions most helpful.... a typical research project, only this time we listers just sit here & the  good stuff comes to our door, as it were. so dont stop now.... i cant wait for the next input. maybe if we all prasie the principals enough,  they could be brought together for a big "friendly", "warm n fuzzy", "well, we did good !!!" kind of reunion up in the place of origin (idaho) where all the avids n foxes gathered to express our gratitude to both guys & all the others who've kept the designs flying one way or the other.... larson, winder, bean, come to mind quickly. in fact, i believe paul shared some old video/movies of avid & foxes gathering at fly ins in the early days?? i'd certainly love to attend such a "gathering of dean/dan progeny". anyway, keep diggin folks & sharing.... i love it!!! john bowman, covering an avid + from airdale here in prairieville, la......& merry christmas to u all..... 



 ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Seems  to  me that Avids and Kitfoxes were always having the rivalry take off contests  are flyins.



Who won them for the most  part ?

TAke a look at a highlander ..  Looks  like  a great copy ......  errrrr plane as well of th avid

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Hey Gang,



I Spent an hour on the telephone last night with Dean Wilson.  Now I am 

totally confident the information I have is correct.  And I can tell you now 

after hearing the specific details, all Dan Denney did is ask Dean if he'd 

be interested in building an ultralight they could sell.  His input was 

limited to the idea of building an ultralight.  No design paramaters, and no 

new or novel concepts.  Dean was opposed to the idea of an ultralight and 

told Dan so, because in the area they lived unless you had an N-number on 

your airplane, the airports wouldn't let you operate there. But the idea of 

building a lightweight airplane between an ultralight and a regular airplane 

appealed to Dean.  And being that Dean likes nothing more than designing and 

building airplanes, he started drawing.



And just like the previous Kitplanes article said, this all happened while 

Dean was in a hospital bed.  So while he layed there, he thought about all 

the ultralighters that used to come out to his place to fly because the 

airports wouldn't let them fly there.  And how many times he helped them 

assemble their airplanes, taking two of them hours to get every pin and bolt 

in the right place, and still many times forgetting a piece or two.  And 

even worse, how many times they were just getting the airplane all together 

when the wind would come up, and then they'd have to disassemble the whole 

thing again because their airplanes couldn't fly in any kind of a wind.



Having those experiences in the back of his mind helped Dean with creating 

his design goals for the Avid Flyer;  He needed a very light and 

inexpensive, but strong and safe airplane (but not an ultralight).  And it 

would have two seats rather than one.  And it would have a wing loading of 

at least 5lbs per foot so it could handle wind.  And it had to have a simple 

and quick, no controls to disconnect wing folding mechanism that was pretty 

much fool proof so as to alleviate safety concerns from leaving pins or 

bolts out.  And easily towable.  Dean said the airplane design itself went 

quick and easy, but he struggled for quite some time with the wing folding 

mechanism.  In fact, at one point he threw all the drawings in the garbage 

thinking it just wasn't going to happen.  But then it came to him, he needed 

to use small universal joints in the wing fold mechanism located behind the 

seat.  That being the final hurdle, he had his Avid Flyer design.  Having it 

all on paper he showed what he had to Dan.  Dan's response was just a 

simple, "looks good".  So I guess the rest is now history..



Hearing all this completes the story, and furthers my initial thoughts. 

Dan's involvement at best was just being the catalyst that got Dean 

thinking.



Dean also confirmed the 1st Kitfox was built from an Avid kit, or at least 

the jigging was.  And fwiw, a man by the name of Roger Frank was the guy 

that Dan hired to design and build the Thunder Mustang, as he was a carbon 

fiber sailplane guru/engineer and not only had experience with composite 

structures, but also had the ability to scale down the drawings of the real 

P-51, re-engineering the design where needed, make the plugs and molds, and 

eventually producing the actual airplane.



I don't mean to totally discredit Dan Denney here.  I just feel it is 

important the history be explained correctly.  Other than that, I agee 100% 

with DHolly's previous post comments " I am simply forever grateful these 

two stars collided".



But it was just that, a collision...



Paul

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Paul, 



Excellent due diligence on your part to verify what you had thought originally.  Nothing like getting the info direct from the horse mouth.

This should now set the record straight for everyone. 

Great work !!

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Is anyone talking to Dan Denney to get his side of the story? Not to imply that Mr. Wilson is not being completely truthful. For all I know, Mr. Denney would just concur. But, given that the two parties are not on good terms, if you're really interested in historical accuracy then you have to interview both sides.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I Spent an hour on the telephone last night with Dean Wilson. Now I am totally confident the information I have is correct.

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy?

This history lesson has been great reading!  Someone mentioned above that Dan Denny's strength was in marketing the Kitfox.  I have to agree because he hooked me with a Kitfox information package in 1985.



I started taking flying lessons in 1984.  My instructor showed me a picture he had of the Kitfox prototype 84DD.  It really interested me so I ordered an information package from Denny Aerocraft Co.  Denny also started a Kitfox news letter named "Kitfox Pack News".  He sent me a copy of Vol. 1 Issue 1 in November 1985.  In it he wrote an article about his trip to the Reno Air races in the Kitfox.



They only had one trailer and wanted  to take both 84DD and their new partially finished Kit  for a static display, so the only way to get 84DD there was to fly it.  It was raining and socked in in Bosie so they trailered the Kitfox out of town and up out of the fog.  They unloaded and he took off from a highway department gravel pit.  He goes on to tell about the trip including landing at a truck stop for fuel.



For the next 10 years I couldn't quit thinking how much fun that would be to have an airplane I could haul on a trailer, unload and take off.  In 1994 I ordered my a Classic 4 kit from the then new Skystar aircraft company.



This past April, 23 years since I saw that first Kitfox photo, I made my first tail wheel solo flight in my own Kitfox that I built,  haul on a trailer, unload, and take off!

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:08 am Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Well, if we have more doubt in the air again, maybe John McBean could speak up.  



I am sure John knows how the plane he manufactures now evolved and what is was copied from in the first place.  ?

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Tom,



That's a really cool story!



I had similar ideas as you when I first decided on an Avid Flyer (Kitfox 

wasn't around yet). I didn't have it so hard as you did, as I bought my 1st 

Avid ready to fly.  And even though I didn't build my 1st Avid, I had a 

really good time utilizing it's easy portability features.  I kept in my 

one-stall garage here at home with the trailer hitch on the tail. When I 

wanted to fly, I would just pull it out of the garage, attach it to the back 

of my truck, fill it up with gas, give it a good preflight and engine warmup 

right in the driveway, and then tug it down the road a few miles to an old 

inactive airstrip (aka open field).  I'd pull the wings ahead, put the pins 

in the leading edge attachments, screw on the turtle deck, drop the hitch 

from the tail, do a quick once over, give a tug on the recoil starter, and 

next thing I knew I was off flying for the day burning all of 3 gph car gas. 

Whole thing from opening the garge door to ready to fly was no more than 15 

minutes. The first year I owned it I flew 210 hours.



Later I put the plane on floats (I live on a lake) and kept it out my front 

door.  Had even more fun that way.



Avids or Kitfoxes, I'm convinced they are the most versatile, and fun 

airplane a person can own!!



If I can find some pictures of my early days dragging N99AF around behind my 

truck I'll post a couple. I also have some video of it I can post to U-tube 

if anyone is interested.  In the meantime, here's a pic of old N99AF when I 

was flying it yet...



Paul

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shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Great picture Paul..and thanks 4 sharing it with all of us..Steve 

Shinabery N554KF  KF2 582



Paul Seehafer wrote:

[quote] Tom,



 That's a really cool story!



 I had similar ideas as you when I first decided on an Avid Flyer 

 (Kitfox wasn't around yet). I didn't have it so hard as you did, as I 

 bought my 1st Avid ready to fly.  And even though I didn't build my 

 1st Avid, I had a really good time utilizing it's easy portability 

 features.  I kept in my one-stall garage here at home with the trailer 

 hitch on the tail. When I wanted to fly, I would just pull it out of 

 the garage, attach it to the back of my truck, fill it up with gas, 

 give it a good preflight and engine warmup right in the driveway, and 

 then tug it down the road a few miles to an old inactive airstrip (aka 

 open field).  I'd pull the wings ahead, put the pins in the leading 

 edge attachments, screw on the turtle deck, drop the hitch from the 

 tail, do a quick once over, give a tug on the recoil starter, and next 

 thing I knew I was off flying for the day burning all of 3 gph car 

 gas. Whole thing from opening the garge door to ready to fly was no 

 more than 15 minutes. The first year I owned it I flew 210 hours.



 Later I put the plane on floats (I live on a lake) and kept it out my 

 front door.  Had even more fun that way.



 Avids or Kitfoxes, I'm convinced they are the most versatile, and fun 

 airplane a person can own!!



 If I can find some pictures of my early days dragging N99AF around 

 behind my truck I'll post a couple. I also have some video of it I can 

 post to U-tube if anyone is interested.  In the meantime, here's a pic 

 of old N99AF when I was flying it yet...



 Paul

 ---

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Lynn,

That is the speedster that the factory used for a while. Franklin flew this

one at Oshkosh for a 4 minute aerobatic run. Dan was so excited that he sent

many us a copy of the tape. I am not sure where the plane is now.

The signature you see is actually Charlie Denny's (I think), he was the

photo guy for Dan.



John Oakley



--

dgolden(at)golden-consult
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   All this talk of early Kitfox's made me recall a picture I saw when I

 stopped in Laramie, WY, earlier this year. The picture was on the wall

 of the FBO there. You'll notice that it appears to be an "official"

 Skystar Aircraft picture...see logo at lower right of picture. Anybody

 know the history of this plane?


	


Yup, that's the prototype Model IV Speedster. I had a demo flight in

that plane in 1992, before I ordered mine. That picture must be really

faded because it was the brightest flourescent green and maroon that I

have ever seen. In fact, one of the other exhibitors at the Grand Parie

aport said they could see it on the ground from 7 miles out!



Regards,



Dennis M IV Speedster still building.

-- 

Dennis Golden

Golden Consulting Services, Inc.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Thanks John...it'd be nice to know the story behind this photo...like  

who are the signers thanking? Somebody at Laramie? Did they have  

airplane trouble? Why three signatures, when a Kitfox (normally)  

holds only two...was this a special plane that seated more? Where is  

N91KS today? DAMN, I love a good mystery!

I guess the least I could do is to look up the N-number and see what  

is revealed.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs



On Dec 15, 2007, at 5:13 PM, john oakley wrote:



[quote] 



 Lynn,

 That is the speedster that the factory used for a while. Franklin  

 flew this

 one at Oshkosh for a 4 minute aerobatic run. Dan was so excited  

 that he sent

 many us a copy of the tape. I am not sure where the plane is now.

 The signature you see is actually Charlie Denny's (I think), he was  

 the

 photo guy for Dan.



 John Oakley



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

I just did a search for N91KS, and here's the edited results:  (I  

deleted the current number-holder's info)



FAA Registry

N-Number Inquiry Results



N91KS has multiple records



Other Owner Names



Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 1

Aircraft Description

Serial Number

1515

Type Registration

Corporation

Manufacturer Name

DENNEY L DAN

Certificate Issue Date

09/10/1992

Model

KITFOX IV



Mode S Code



53112504

Year Manufacturer



None



Cancel Date



08/30/1995

Reason for Cancellation



Exported



Exported To



JAPAN

***************************************************



So it looks like the plane is across the big pond. : )



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs

do not archive

On Dec 15, 2007, at 5:13 PM, john oakley wrote:



[quote] 



 Lynn,

 That is the speedster that the factory used for a while. Franklin  

 flew this

 one at Oshkosh for a 4 minute aerobatic run. Dan was so excited  

 that he sent

 many us a copy of the tape. I am not sure where the plane is now.

 The signature you see is actually Charlie Denny's (I think), he was  

 the

 photo guy for Dan.



 John Oakley



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

Yes, the picture was located right next to a south-facing bay window  

and that's terrible for preserving photographs. In addition, the room  

is lit with fluorescent lights which is another good way to sap all  

the cyan out of a photo...but I digress....thanks for the  

recollection, Dennis.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs

do not archive

On Dec 15, 2007, at 6:47 PM, Dennis Golden wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 consulting.com>

 Lynn Matteson wrote:

> All this talk of early Kitfox's made me recall a picture I saw when I

> stopped in Laramie, WY, earlier this year. The picture was on the  

> wall

> of the FBO there. You'll notice that it appears to be an "official"

> Skystar Aircraft picture...see logo at lower right of picture.  

> Anybody

> know the history of this plane?

 Yup, that's the prototype Model IV Speedster. I had a demo flight in

 that plane in 1992, before I ordered mine. That picture must be really

 faded because it was the brightest flourescent green and maroon that I

 have ever seen. In fact, one of the other exhibitors at the Grand  

 Parie

 aport said they could see it on the ground from 7 miles out!

 Regards,

 Dennis M IV Speedster still building.

 -- 

 Dennis Golden

 Golden Consulting Services, Inc.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Kitfox an Avid copy?

The second name on the signature list is Skip, he was the factory test and

ferry pilot at that time, I think he went from there to fly in the AT6 Red

Baron flying team. I can't read the third name.



John Oakley



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