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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Holes in the sky |
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[quote="lcottrell"]Gang,
It took me less than 100 feet to complete my 360. Larry C
do not archive
That is incredible. Is anyone else getting glides like this out of their Kolbs ?
I had been practicing forced landings, and minimum descents rates by pulling my power back to Idle.. I figured the Kolb might glide a bit better without the prop windmilling, so a couple weeks ago I got over an airport with two 6000 foot runways and shut the engine down. I was not ready for how much WORSE the glide was without the engine idling. It appears the 912 puts out a lot of thrust even at a 1900 RPM idle. Anyways, my altitude at best glide to do a 180 was 500 feet, at a 25 degree bank with my wife and I on board. I have tried this a bunch of times, from high altitudes, with same results. About 500 feet for a 180, and about 1000 feet for a complete 360 at a little less than 30 degree bank and 50 MPH.
I have to agree with John Hauck, everyone should learn to approach and land with the engine shut off. If you are afraid of having an accident like Wayne did, go to an airport with runways big enough that you cannot possibly miss it. Bottom line, engines do quit, if you can not learn to do a landing on a large airport with the engine shut down, you dont have a prayer of being able to accomplish a real forced landing. The real life practice will probably make the difference between a forced landing and a crash.
John,
What kind of glide do you get with your MK III ? How long to make a 180 and at what speed and bank angle ?
Mike
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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S |
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: Holes in the sky |
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Richard, disappointed your fellow kolbers are a little slow on the draw?
could the magic device be???...... (drum roll) ......
VGs?
nawwww
BB, first REAL day of winter here by the arctic circle. warmed up to 9F
and going out for breakfast.
On 19, Jan 2008, at 10:17 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: |
I was thinking more along the lines of a simple device to reduce
both airspeed and flying speed at the lower end of the gliding
airspeed spectrum.
Too bad that such a thing apparently does not exist...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
John Hauck wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I don't know. When airspeed is less than flying speed, one would
> need something spiritual to keep them flying.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: Holes in the sky |
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John, Could you tell whether your prop was stopped or still turning? If it was turning you were working against a 6' diameter drogue chute.
Rick
On Jan 20, 2008 12:56 AM, JetPilot < orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" < orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)>
[quote="lcottrell"]Gang,
It took me less than 100 feet to complete my 360. Larry C
do not archive
That is incredible. Is anyone else getting glides like this out of their Kolbs ?
I had been practicing forced landings, and minimum descents rates by pulling my power back to Idle.. I figured the Kolb might glide a bit better without the prop windmilling, so a couple weeks ago I got over an airport with two 6000 foot runways and shut the engine down. I was not ready for how much WORSE the glide was without the engine idling. It appears the 912 puts out a lot of thrust even at a 1900 RPM idle. Anyways, my altitude at best glide to do a 180 was 500 feet, at a 25 degree bank with my wife and I on board. I have tried this a bunch of times, from high altitudes, with same results. About 500 feet for a 180, and about 1000 feet for a complete 360 at a little less than 30 degree bank and 50 MPH.
I have to agree with John Hauck, everyone should learn to approach and land with the engine shut off. If you are afraid of having an accident like Wayne did, go to an airport with runways big enough that you cannot possibly miss it. Bottom line, engines do quit, if you can not learn to do a landing on a large airport with the engine shut down, you dont have a prayer of being able to accomplish a real forced landing. The real life practice will probably make the difference between a forced landing and a crash.
John,
What kind of glide do you get with your MK III ? How long to make a 180 and at what speed and bank angle ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159335#159335
[quote][b]
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: Holes in the sky |
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> What kind of glide do you get with your MK III ? How long to make a 180
and at what speed and bank angle ?
Mike:
I guess my mkIII glides about like the rest of them. Well..........maybe
not as good because she is on the heavy side.
Never timed a 180 or a 360. She'll turn on a dime though, or turn on a wing
tip with power. I never paid any attention to quick turns without power.
Next time I fly, I will see what kind of results I get.
Was 20F this morning with a high expected around 40F. Yesterday was snow.
Bet Gantt International Airport is a little soggy this morning, if not
frozen, not to mention the cow crap.
I got caught up in the gear swap SB on my Rotax 912ULS. Will fly down to
Lucedale, MS, the end of this month to let Ronnie Smith swap them out. Eric
Tucker is teaching the Rotax engine classes at the same time. He can take a
look at the gear box too.
Take care,
john h - Putting another log on the fire and pouring another cup of coffee.
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Holes in the sky |
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| jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote: | Lucien, I flew with the rice king for almost a year and absolutely hated what it did to the glide of the Kolb. They should be used for what they were made, pushing an airboat through a rice paddy. MHO
Rick
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Again I can't agree (that the clutch should be used only on airboats). I do of course grant that the glide is affected by the windmilling prop but I can't agree otherwise.
Does it make the FS II less of a glider than it already is? Sure. Does it present a safety hazard? Absolutely not.
As I said, whatever the glide ratio of your plane you have to learn to glide it to a safe landing engine-off anyway if you really want to be a safe pilot for that plane. An engine-out should never result in death in our light aircraft, that's just irresponsible and stupid regardless of the plane's glide ratio.
It is my opinion that if you die or are severaly injured merely because the engine quit, you should not have been solo. There should have been an instructor on board teaching you emergency procedures including keeping landing spots within gliding distance and simulated deadsticks until you know (knew) how to survive an engine-out event. End of story.
As for the clutch, it solves many more problems than it introduces and is well worth the 500 bucks it costs. Among the advantages:
- vastly easier starting
- eliminates the possibility of high-rpm/low-throttle opening situations in a rapid descent, a significant hazard for a 2-stroke motor.
- the aforementioned ability to truly simulate engine-off flight
- eliminates low-rpm stress on the gearbox and engine botttom-end at low rpms.
- makes the already long-lasting rotax 2-stroke last even longer
and on and on....
If anyone wants to get rid of their clutches, send them to me. If I get a 2-stroke powered plane again, I'll definitely put it to use.....
LS
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LS
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