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capacitance fuel probes

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JohnA

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Woodland, CA

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: capacitance fuel probes

Has anyone installed capacitance fuel probes in Kitfox tanks?  If so, how was

this executed?  Looks a tad challenging since the top of the tank makes up the

top of the wing.



John Alexander

Woodland, CA

_________________
John Alexander
Woodland, CA

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: capacitance fuel probes

I didn't install mine so I'm not sure how hard it is. But mine were 

installed through the side of the tank at the root end. They bend upward in 

about a 1" radius for 45 deg and then a 90 deg turn down do the the probe 

travels to the bottom of the tank at a 45 deg slant. They are sealed with 

Hylomar and don't leak.



Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582

do not archive

---

Mike C

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: capacitance fuel probes

We've just completed the installation of capacitance probes on a pair of

RV4 tanks. The installation should be similar for the Kitfox with the

probe mounted on the side of the tank. Because of the dihedral in the

wing of the RV4 we bent the tube down at root and up at the end of the

tube. We used o-rings under the hold down bolts with a countersink cut

in the plastic top of the probe. Red Loctite sealant was applied to the

gaskets and the hold down bolts. To test the integrity of the tank, we

sealed all of the openings and used a balloon over the fuel outlet. We

then applied enough air pressure to expand the balloon and let it sit

for 24 hours. The balloon should remain expanded otherwise there is a

leak which must be repaired. Hope this helps.



Mike Crutchlow

Kitfox II, 582   



--

_________________
Mike C
Kitfox II
582 Bluehead
Woodcomp 3 blade, wood/carbon fibre

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: Re: capacitance fuel probes

Why? 



The sight tubes are utterly reliable and you can see them with just a

slight shift of the eyeballs???? 



Jeff

JohnA

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Woodland, CA

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: capacitance fuel probes

Thanks Dave.  This seems to be the preferred method.  I went to the Skysport

website and they had an installation procedure for just this method.



On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:21:27 -0400, Dave G. wrote

[quote] 

 

 I didn't install mine so I'm not sure how hard it is. But mine were 

 installed through the side of the tank at the root end. They bend 

 upward in about a 1" radius for 45 deg and then a 90 deg turn down 

 do the the probe travels to the bottom of the tank at a 45 deg 

 slant. They are sealed with Hylomar and don't leak.

 

 Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582

 do not archive

 ---

_________________
John Alexander
Woodland, CA

flybymike(at)bendcable.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: capacitance fuel probes

John,

     I have installed a lot of the  capacitance fuel probes in other planes. Most of those probes can be cut down in  length to fit your application. You could to run it at an angle, like from  the outboard top of the tank to the inboard bottom. This angle would allow a  longer probe and be more accurate. A threaded boss could be glassed into the  tank and the probe threads into that but you would have to have a way to remove  the probe after the wing is finished, for maintanence. Although it would be cool  to do that and I thought about it myself since I installed a Dynon D-180 but I  just went with the sight guages. It is not hard to do if you have some  fiberglass experience.

  

 Mike Custard

 Bend, Or

 Super Sport 91%

   [quote][b]

JohnA

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Woodland, CA

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: capacitance fuel probes

I've never done any fiberglass work, but when I built my first plane, I'd never done any fabric work.  It'll just be a learning curve.  I plan to go whole hog on this one.  A Dynon D-100 EFIS, EMS-120, fuel flow sensor, and so on.  I'll likely install a sight gauge as well as a capacitance gauge.  Why???  Well... why not??  John Alexander  On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:50:37 -0800, flybymike wrote > John,  >     I have installed a lot of  the   capacitance fuel probes in other planes. Most of those probes can be cut down in   length to fit your application. You could to run it at an angle, like from   the outboard top of the tank to the inboard bottom. This angle would allow a   longer probe and be more accurate. A threaded boss could be glassed into the   tank and the probe threads into that but you would have to have a way to remove   the probe after the wing is finished, for maintanence. Although it would be cool   to do that and I thought about it myself since I installed a Dynon D-180 but I   just went with the sight guages. It is not hard to do if you have some   fiberglass  experience.  >    > Mike  Custard  > Bend,  Or  > Super Sport  91%   	  Quote: 	
		  



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John Alexander
Woodland, CA

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: Re: capacitance fuel probes

Why not? Well you can certainly install anything you want. But you won't

gain anything really. The factory sight tubes work fine, and I find seeing

the fuel more reassuring than any gauge I've ever used.



You will spend more time and money by putting them in. Which is a

negative.



I put $10K in IFR avionics in mine, not to mention what I spent on

flight instruments and frankly were I to do it again I would have just

put in a Comm, and every couple years simply upgraded to the

latest handheld GPS and spend the money saved on things like

guitars. 



I built a Series 5, and it came out well and I think comparing it to other

Kitfoxes it is one of the nicer ones out there. I spent 2.5 years on it. In

hindsight, were I to do it again, I would have not wasted as much time

as I did on some of the things I did. I have found as a end user of the

finished plane, that they (Kitfoxes) are really a pretty utilitarian plane,

and they aren't ever going to provide the ride comfort of say a 

Bonanza, so I think just putting them together carefully, and just put in

what the plane really needs to be flyable is the most important thing. 



On the other had I have a friend who's on probably year twelve of his

Kitfox, and while it will be a work of art, I think he's wasting his time.

Especially the first time he lands on a muddy runway and get mud

splattered all over it inside an out.    



I'm sure a lot of the guys out there who are flying them know what I

mean. I say build it simply, and quickly and then use the plane for

what its good for which is flying whenever you have time to get out

in the air.



Regards,

Jeff

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: capacitance fuel probes

I agree Jeff, especially about the sight gauges.  They never lie to you. 

Every couple years it's a simple matter of spending 20 minutes each side 

replacing the Tygon tubing that gets discolored.  The rest of the stuff is 

good advice for the most part, but this is all about experimentation and 

coming up with a better product.  However, some feel it's about coming up 

with a more expensive product, something we can't all share in.  If I build 

another Kitfox--and I'm thinking about it--I gaurantee it'll be much simpler 

and lighter, but the way prices have gone up, not cheaper.

For now, I pretty much like the one I have and so long as I have it I'll 

keep thinking of ways to improve on it with minor tweakings each year during 

the annual (in progress).

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Why not? Well you can certainly install anything you want. But you won't

 gain anything really. The factory sight tubes work fine, and I find seeing

 the fuel more reassuring than any gauge I've ever used.



 You will spend more time and money by putting them in. Which is a

 negative.



 I put $10K in IFR avionics in mine, not to mention what I spent on

 flight instruments and frankly were I to do it again I would have just

 put in a Comm, and every couple years simply upgraded to the

 latest handheld GPS and spend the money saved on things like

 guitars. 



 I built a Series 5, and it came out well and I think comparing it to other

 Kitfoxes it is one of the nicer ones out there. I spent 2.5 years on it. 

 In

 hindsight, were I to do it again, I would have not wasted as much time

 as I did on some of the things I did. I have found as a end user of the

 finished plane, that they (Kitfoxes) are really a pretty utilitarian 

 plane,

 and they aren't ever going to provide the ride comfort of say a

 Bonanza, so I think just putting them together carefully, and just put in

 what the plane really needs to be flyable is the most important thing.



 On the other had I have a friend who's on probably year twelve of his

 Kitfox, and while it will be a work of art, I think he's wasting his time.

 Especially the first time he lands on a muddy runway and get mud

 splattered all over it inside an out. 



 I'm sure a lot of the guys out there who are flying them know what I

 mean. I say build it simply, and quickly and then use the plane for

 what its good for which is flying whenever you have time to get out

 in the air.



 Regards,

 Jeff





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n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: capacitance fuel probes

Deke -



For me during the building part I had a lot of grand ideas, but once I started

flying the plane I started feeling differently about a lot of them.



For example IFR, well I'm instrument rated, and I trust my plane. BUT I will

not fly it IFR, because it's simply not a stable flying plane like a 172, When

I built it though, it was certainly my intention to fly IFR in it. You could fly

IFR in it, and mine has gone through some layers. But I sure don't want

to spend 2 hours hand flying that thing in the clouds.



Paint, I would have painted it Polytone if I built it today just because it is

a simpler paint system. And now I kind of like the semi-gloss finish. My

Aerothane looks really nice, and I'm happy with it. But I would be happy

with Polytone as well, so ...  I think I'd go the simpler route.



Other things like aluminum fuel lines, and aeroquip in place of the factory 

rubber lines cost more, but make me feel better so I'm happy with those.



Well, anyway you are correct it is up to each to build what his heart

desires. On the CH801 I'm building now, it has seen a lot of upgrades

but those are things like using solid rivets in some high stress areas, 

and upgrading some structural parts from like .025 to .032 just because

it makes me feel better.  



Actually after losing the engine once, and ground looping it another time

now I'm into anything that keep the prop turning, OR keeps the occupants

safe if it doesn't ... 



Jeff

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