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Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

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jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

All,



I'm working with the seats now too.  I have found that there really are

three parts to the seats.  These are the cushions, the seat backs, and the

upholstery.  



My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material.  The fiberglass

(reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site appears to

be a better solution.  I guess I'll just have to learn to use fiberglass.



For the cushions, several types of foam are available from common soft foam

to Confor Foam.  Both Hi-Tech Seats and Oregon Aero have patterns for the

601 using Confor foam.  Oregon Aero is more than twice the price of Hi-Tech,

but includes a multi-piece seat with professionally contoured shapes.  Does

anyone have either installed? 



I checked with a local auto upholstery shop, and getting the cover done

should be the easiest part.  



I have a couple questions: 



How far above the baggage shelf should the headrest portion of the seatback

extend to protect our heads?  Most of the pictures I see just have a large

arc or simple straight edge as the top of the seat back.  Is there a reason

that there is no head rest?  Should the seats be more like the bucket seats

in a car with integral head rests?  Is it just personal preference? I just

measured my plane and came up with 300 mm above the shelf for the top of the

headrest assuming a 3 inch foam seat over the seat pan.  How do the

Flightcrafters or Zenith seats compare?  



Thanks ....



Jeff D.

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

Hi Jeff,

The seats are easily done with plywood backs or fiberglass.  Automotive 

foams are cheaper and perhaps

easier to get hold of at many sewing and fabric outlets.  Density is 

something you want to pay attention to.

Confor foam is expensive beyond practical concerns, but for flammability 

perhaps. I've a page on

seat construction that may explain the process.  See link below.

Seat backs need only go an inch or more above the shelf or to shoulder 

support height.  Easier to get

belts over your shoulders if you don't go too high. Head rests are for 

the flying public and passengers

but I wouldn't recommend them because of a need for access to the rear 

shelf during flight.

http://www.macsmachine.com/html/seatupholstery.htm

Good luck,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Jeff wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 All,



 I'm working with the seats now too.  I have found that there really are

 three parts to the seats.  These are the cushions, the seat backs, and the

 upholstery.  



 My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material.  The fiberglass

 (reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site appears to

 be a better solution.  I guess I'll just have to learn to use fiberglass.



 For the cushions, several types of foam are available from common soft foam

 to Confor Foam.  Both Hi-Tech Seats and Oregon Aero have patterns for the

 601 using Confor foam.  Oregon Aero is more than twice the price of Hi-Tech,

 but includes a multi-piece seat with professionally contoured shapes.  Does

 anyone have either installed? 



 I checked with a local auto upholstery shop, and getting the cover done

 should be the easiest part.  



 I have a couple questions: 



 How far above the baggage shelf should the headrest portion of the seatback

 extend to protect our heads?  Most of the pictures I see just have a large

 arc or simple straight edge as the top of the seat back.  Is there a reason

 that there is no head rest?  Should the seats be more like the bucket seats

 in a car with integral head rests?  Is it just personal preference? I just

 measured my plane and came up with 300 mm above the shelf for the top of the

 headrest assuming a 3 inch foam seat over the seat pan.  How do the

 Flightcrafters or Zenith seats compare?  



 Thanks ....



 Jeff D.

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

Larry, I have a question about the seats and maybe you can answer it for me.  I was wondering if there's such a thing as replacing the permanently mounted seats with a moveable seat like that in a Cessna?  I'm a pretty short legged pilot and if I mount the seats too close to the pedals, any of my friends that are much taller than I will have a dickens of a time with the seat being too close for them.  I've only started my XL but I've been wondering how others have handled it.  When AMD builds the Alarus (mother to the XL), how do they handle the seating in those??  I'm sure there are a lot of them out here being used for General Aviation.  Any help you could offer here will put my mind at ease some.

   

  Regards

  Larry H



LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland 



Hi Jeff,

The seats are easily done with plywood backs or fiberglass. Automotive 

foams are cheaper and perhaps

easier to get hold of at many sewing and fabric outlets. Density is 

something you want to pay attention to.

Confor foam is expensive beyond practical concerns, but for flammability 

perhaps. I've a page on

seat construction that may explain the process. See link below.

Seat backs need only go an inch or more above the shelf or to shoulder 

support height. Easier to get

belts over your shoulders if you don't go too high. Head rests are for 

the flying public and passengers

but I wouldn't recommend them because of a need for access to the rear 

shelf during flight.

http://www.macsmachine.com/html/seatupholstery.htm

Good luck,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Jeff wrote:

[quote] --> Zenith-List  message posted by: "Jeff " 



 All,



 I'm working with the seats now too. I have found that there really are

 three parts to the seats. These are the cushions, the seat backs, and the

 upholstery. 



 My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material. The fiberglass

 (reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site appears to

 be a better solution. I guess I'll just have to learn to use fiberglass.



 For the cushions, several types of foam are available from common soft foam

 to Confor Foam. Both Hi-Tech Seats and Oregon Aero have patterns for the

 601 using Confor foam. Oregon Aero is more than twice the price of Hi-Tech,

 but includes a multi-piece seat with professionally contoured shapes. Does

 anyone have either installed? 



 I checked with a local auto upholstery shop, and getting the cover       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

Hi Larry,

I'd recommend you build the seats to fit the 6'-2" person and after 

getting the proportions right for comfort disregarding the length of 

your legs, make the seat back adjustable

both top and bottom to allow it to be positioned forward a distance that 

you feel best with at the pedals.  There are several spacer types or 

adapters that would position your seat forward an inch or two so you get 

a good fit.  I don't see any benefit in trying a track on the bottom of 

the seat when it's basically making the seat-back do the work.

The seat bottom is one plane of reference that can be fixed and the seat 

back may more easily be made adjustable. This would be my approach.

Take note of the bottom channel that holds the bottom of my seat-back 

and imagine two rows of channel and bolt in spacers at the top.  I use 

bungees for the top of my seats going back inside to hold them in place.



Larry McFarland



Larry H wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Larry, I have a question about the seats and maybe you can answer it 

 for me.  I was wondering if there's such a thing as replacing the 

 permanently mounted seats with a moveable seat like that in a Cessna?  

 I'm a pretty short legged pilot and if I mount the seats too close to 

 the pedals, any of my friends that are much taller than I will have a 

 dickens of a time with the seat being too close for them.  I've only 

 started my XL but I've been wondering how others have handled it.  

 When AMD builds the Alarus (mother to the XL), how do they handle the 

 seating in those??  I'm sure there are a lot of them out here being 

 used for General Aviation.  Any help you could offer here will put my 

 mind at ease some.

  

 Regards

 Larry H



 */LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>/* wrote:



     



     Hi Jeff,

     The seats are easily done with plywood backs or fiberglass.

     Automotive

     foams are cheaper and perhaps

     easier to get hold of at many sewing and fabric outlets. Density is

     something you want to pay attention to.

     Confor foam is expensive beyond practical concerns, but for

     flammability

     perhaps. I've a page on

     seat construction that may explain the process. See link below.

     Seat backs need only go an inch or more above the shelf or to

     shoulder

     support height. Easier to get

     belts over your shoulders if you don't go too high. Head rests are

     for

     the flying public and passengers

     but I wouldn't recommend them because of a need for access to the

     rear

     shelf during flight.

     http://www.macsmachine.com/html/seatupholstery.htm

     Good luck,



     Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

     Jeff wrote:

     > 

     >

     > All,

     >

     > I'm working with the seats now too. I have found that there

     really are

     > three parts to the seats. These are the cushions, the seat

     backs, and the

     > upholstery.

     >

     > My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material. The fiberglass

     > (reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site

     appears to

     > be a better solution. I guess I'll just have to learn to use

     fiberglass.

     >

     > For the cushions, several types of foam are available from

     common soft foam

     > to Confor Foam. Both Hi-Tech Seats and Oregon Aero have patterns

     for the

     > 601 using Confor foam. Oregon Aero is more than twice the price

     of Hi-Tech,

     > but includes a multi-piece seat with professionally contoured

     shapes. Does

     > anyone have either installed?

     >

     > I checked with a local auto upholstery shop, and getting the cover

     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Be a better friend, newshound, and



     *

     *

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

On my plane, I used 5.2 mm plywood for the seat backs. This is the  

stuff used for providing a smooth surface under vinyl flooring. I had  

some scrap pieces of it left over from a home project. It has worked  

out well for me. I made the seat cushions out of the foam from Hi-Tech  

foams. It is expensive but also extremely comfortable. I flew the  

plane from Midland, Michigan to Lakeland Florida for Sun'N'Fun in  

2005. The trip down involved about twelve hours of flight time and the  

only complaint I had was that I wasn't able to streach my legs out  

much in flight. I had no discomfort from the seat cushions at all. The  

thirteen hour return trip I completed in one day and after sitting in  

the seat pretty much all day, my butt and back didn't hurt at all.  

I've suffered more discomfort from two hour trips in Cessna 150s.



On Feb 23, 2008, at 4:18 PM, Jeff wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 All,



 I'm working with the seats now too.  I have found that there really  

 are

 three parts to the seats.  These are the cushions, the seat backs,  

 and the

 upholstery.



 My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material.  The fiberglass

 (reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site  

 appears to

 be a better solution.  I guess I'll just have to learn to use  

 fiberglass.



 For the cushions, several types of foam are available from common  

 soft foam

 to Confor Foam.  Both Hi-Tech Seats and Oregon Aero have patterns  

 for the

 601 using Confor foam.  Oregon Aero is more than twice the price of  

 Hi-Tech,

 but includes a multi-piece seat with professionally contoured  

 shapes.  Does

 anyone have either installed?




	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:08 am Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

The biggest reason for headrests is that after a rapid deceleration against a restraint like a seat belt or even a shoulder harness your head will snap back. If there is no cushion/stop to limit the travel hyperextension of the neck and even fracture associated with only the snap back can occur.



Jeff  <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " 



All,



I'm working with the seats now too.  I have found that there really are

three parts to the seats.  These are the cushions, the seat backs, and the

upholstery.  



My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material.  The fiberglass

(reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site appears to

be a better solution.  I guess I'll just have to learn to use  fiberglass.



For the cushions, several types of foam are available from common soft foam

to Confor Foam.  Both Hi-Tech Seats and Oregon Aero have patterns for the

601 using Confor foam.  Oregon Aero is more than twice the price of Hi-Tech,

but includes a multi-piece seat with professionally contoured shapes.  Does

anyone have either installed? 



I checked with a local auto upholstery shop, and getting the cover done

should be the easiest part.  



I have a couple questions: 



How far above the baggage shelf should the headrest portion of the seatback

extend to protect our heads?  Most of the pictures I see just have a large

arc or simple straight edge as the top of the seat back.  Is there a reason

that there is no head rest?  Should the seats be more like the bucket seats

in a car with integral head rests?  Is it just personal preference? I just

measured my plane and came up with 300 mm above the shelf for the top of      [quote][b]

klaus(at)utdallas.edu
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

Hi,



Another possible choice are the seatbacks used in the RV6. We used that 

in my

plane. They are lightweight and strong.



Happy building and flying,



Klaus



klaus(at)utdallas.edu

www.utdallas.edu/~klaus

ding(at)tbscc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

Seat Builders,

                            I used 1/4 " birch plywood from Lowes for seat 

backs, and it worked out well. I punched several large holes in them to keep 

them light, something I'm rather anal about (so I'm told!). They can be 

purchased in 2' x 2' pieces.                               A few miles up 

the road fron me is an upholstery supply place. I bought three grades of 

foam in 1" thicknesses.  An electric kitchen knife, spray glue, and a few 

hours later I had nicely shaped, stylish, light and comfy cushions ready for 

my sister-in-law to upholster. About $70 invested.

                                                                             

                                                    Lynn          Corry, PA 

601 XL / Corvair



 	  Quote:

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

So those would be anal holes?



DO NOT ARCHIVE

 	  ding(at)tbscc.com wrote: 	
		  

 I punched several large holes in them to keep 

them light, something I'm rather anal about (so I'm told!).

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery

And Gig, I would suspect those a a lot different than "lightning holes", correct?  I would certainly HATE to get those two mixed up - or worse yet, mixed together...... 

  



Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" 



So those would be anal holes?



DO NOT ARCHIVE



ding(at)tbscc.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I punched several large holes in them to keep 

 them light, something I'm rather anal about (so I'm told!). 


	




--------

W.R. "Gig" Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR





Read this topic online    [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

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