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Bing carbs

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: Bing carbs

Has anybody found the need to change the diaphragm in their Bing  

carbs? I just started to have a mid-range fuel problem, and I'm  

wondering if it could be the problem. The history is that I changed  

the needle jet from 2.76 to 2.78, and the rpm's around 1500-2000  

became sluggish and it would die. This is during a ground run-up.  

Going back to the 2.76 jet didn't help, and it probably shouldn't  

have. If I pull the "choke" on, it helps to get through this "mid- 

range crisis" and will rev up to 2750, the normal static WOT for me  

in these atmospheric conditions.

So it seems like it is lean, and in want of more fuel as shown by the  

better performance by applying choke, but nothing else has changed to  

cause it to become lean, or am I overlooking something?



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Bing carbs

Make sure the jets do not have any blockage.  if you go up or down on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a blockage in the circuit.  A fine piece of wire may do it for you.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: Bing carbs

Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or dirt  

in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with,  

I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty  

blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The  

perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I wanted to  

get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size  

needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went back  

to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed  

something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this  

thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could have  

gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow  

so I can get some suggestions.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual



On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Make sure the jets do not have any blockage.  if you go up or down  

 on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a  

 blockage in the circuit.  A fine piece of wire may do it for you.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 95% complete





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

samscycles(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

Make sure you don't have a vacume leak near the carb fittings.  You can spray some carb cleaner around the fittings and listen for a change in engine if the fittings are leaking. 



_____________________________________________________________

Save thousands on a Veterinary Program - Click here.

   [quote][b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb top back on. I don't know, maybe?

 do not archive

 Pat Reilly 

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs

 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or dirt 

 in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with, 

 I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty 

 blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The 

 perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I wanted to 

 get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size 

 needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went back 

 to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed 

 something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this 

 thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could have 

 gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow 

 so I can get some suggestions.

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 >

 > Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up or down 

 > on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a 

 > blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you.

 >

 > --------

 > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > Leonard Perry

 > Soldotna AK

 > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > 582 IVO IFA

 > Full Lotus 1260

 > 95% complete

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 ><=============

kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

 	  Quote: 	
		   To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com; jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com

 From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Bing carbs

 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:26:43 -0400

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Has anybody found the need to change the diaphragm in their Bing 

 carbs? I just started to have a mid-range fuel problem, and I'm 

 wondering if it could be the problem. The history is that I changed 

 the needle jet from 2.76 to 2.78, and the rpm's around 1500-2000 

 became sluggish and it would die. This is during a ground run-up. 

 Going back to the 2.76 jet didn't help, and it probably shouldn't 

 have. If I pull the "choke" on, it helps to get through this "mid- 

 range crisis" and will rev up to 2750, the normal static WOT for me 

 in these atmospheric conditions.

 So it seems like it is lean, and in want of more fuel as shown by the 

 better performance by applying choke, but nothing else has changed to 

 cause it to become lean, or am I overlooking something?

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying===============

Hi Lynn, Ray Gignac here and I just had both of my carbs cleaned and overhauled at Lockwood, and the diaphram was not replaced!  if it is not cracked torn or dryrot it's ok.  I did have a few bad O-rings!!

 Ray

In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this  

problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the  

area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my  

carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I  

will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to the  

techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort  

could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,  

letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air  

without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds  

the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems  

to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be  

made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read  

somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.



I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV  

carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and  

parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into  

the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow gets  

lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And  

it was mostly geared toward ultralight  carbs...very little on the CV  

carbs.



I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain  

parts, so this must be a common problem.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't  

 leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned  

 "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I  

 fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor  

 gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs  

 that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb  

 top back on. I don't know, maybe?



 do not archive



 Pat Reilly



 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

 > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or dirt

 > in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with,

 > I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty

 > blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The

 > perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I  

 wanted to

 > get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size

 > needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went  

 back

 > to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed

 > something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this

 > thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could have

 > gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow

 > so I can get some suggestions.

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 >

 >

 >

 > On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:

 >

 > > 

 <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 > >

 > > Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up or down

 > > on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a

 > > blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you.

 > >

 > > --------

 > > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > > Leonard Perry

 > > Soldotna AK

 > > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > > 582 IVO IFA

 > > Full Lotus 1260

 > > 95% complete

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > Read this topic online here:

 > >

 > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > ><=============

 >

 >

 >



 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just change the main jet from the bowl?



If from the top is is critical that the diaphra be oriented properly with the index nub properly seated in the appropriate indentation. 



Applying the enrichener for improvement does speak to being lean for some reason.



Sorry not to be more helpful



John Kerr

912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing 



 -------------- Original message ----------------------

From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this  

 problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the  

 area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my  

 carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I  

 will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to the  

 techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort  

 could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,  

 letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air  

 without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds  

 the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems  

 to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be  

 made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read  

 somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.

 

 I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV  

 carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and  

 parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into  

 the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow gets  

 lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And  

 it was mostly geared toward ultralight  carbs...very little on the CV  

 carbs.

 

 I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain  

 parts, so this must be a common problem.

 

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 

 

 On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 

 > Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't  

 > leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned  

 > "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I  

 > fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor  

 > gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs  

 > that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb  

 > top back on. I don't know, maybe?

 >

 > do not archive

 >

 > Pat Reilly

 >

 > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

 > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400

 > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > >

 > > 

 > >

 > > Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or dirt

 > > in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with,

 > > I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty

 > > blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The

 > > perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I  

 > wanted to

 > > get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size

 > > needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went  

 > back

 > > to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed

 > > something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this

 > > thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could have

 > > gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow

 > > so I can get some suggestions.

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson

 > > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:

 > >

 > > > 

 > <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 > > >

 > > > Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up or down

 > > > on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a

 > > > blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you.

 > > >

 > > > --------

 > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > > > Leonard Perry

 > > > Soldotna AK

 > > > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > > > 582 IVO IFA

 > > > Full Lotus 1260

 > > > 95% complete

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > > Read this topic online here:

 > > >

 > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > ><=============

 > >

 > >

 > >

 >

 > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 > ============================================================ _- 

 > forums.matronics.com_- 

 > ============================================================ _- 

 > contribution_- 

 > ============================================================

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

Hi Ray-

Jeez, you must have bucks to burn, getting Lockwood to do the work. : )

I'm probably not going to find any fault with my diaphragm, but in  

the "Bing Carburetors Aircraft Tuning and Parts Manual", on the page  

where they talk about "recommendations and tips on CV carbs" the  

first thing they say is "You should replace the diaphragm in your CV  

carb every two years regardless of hours." This may be to sell some  

parts, but it may be good advice. My diaphragm looks perfect, but if  

there were invisible pinholes, now would be  good time to change it,  

even at $60 a pop! At this point, I'm willing to throw good money  

after a cure for my carb woes. It just takes too much effort to get  

at my carb to remove it, and I'd like to know it's right when it goes  

back in.

The timing couldn't have been worse for this problem to come up,  

wanting to leave later this week for Sun 'n' Fun. : (

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

On Mar 30, 2008, at 8:33 PM, RAY Gignac wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   > 

 >

 > Has anybody found the need to change the diaphragm in their Bing

 > carbs?

 > Lynn Matteson

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Lynn, Ray Gignac here and I just had both of my carbs cleaned  

 and overhauled at Lockwood, and the diaphram was not replaced!  if  

 it is not cracked torn or dryrot it's ok.  I did have a few bad O- 

 rings!!

 Ray

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

Hi John-

After this problem came up, I pulled the carb off the engine and went  

into the top to see what shape the diaphragm was in...it looks great.  

It wasn't the main jet that I changed, but the needle jet. This is  

the "cruise jet" more or less. It's the one that sits just above the  

main jet on what they call the Mixing Tube (a/k/a Jet Stock), and  

it's the one that the needle slides in and out of, changing the mid- 

range mixture. I had read earlier that there was a tab that must be  

oriented correctly into the indentation, and of course it was. If  

this were to be assembled out of line, I'd think that a vacuum leak  

would exist, and running the engine might not happen...not well anyway.

I've also heard of gluing this diaphragm in place, but this wasn't  

done on my carb that I could detect anyway. I'll get Bing's take on  

this practice, unless somebody can tell me otherwise.

Right now I've got the carb sitting in front of a picture of Dale  

Earnhardt, hoping that the Intimidator's glare will whip the carb  

into shape. : )



  What have you got the Rotec in, John? A Kitfox? I met Joe Meyeres  

from Olathe, KS at last year's Oshkosh, and he has a 7 cyl Rotec in a  

'fox. I just googled his site:



www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/joemeyeres.htm

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just change the  

 main jet from the bowl?



 If from the top is is critical that the diaphra be oriented  

 properly with the index nub properly seated in the appropriate  

 indentation.



 Applying the enrichener for improvement does speak to being lean  

 for some reason.



 Sorry not to be more helpful



 John Kerr

 912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing



  -------------- Original message ----------------------

 From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

> 

>

> Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this

> problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the

> area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my

> carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I

> will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to the

> techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort

> could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,

> letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air

> without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds

> the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems

> to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be

> made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read

> somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.

>

> I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV

> carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and

> parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into

> the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow gets

> lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And

> it was mostly geared toward ultralight  carbs...very little on the CV

> carbs.

>

> I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain

> parts, so this must be a common problem.

> Lynn Matteson

> Grass Lake, Michigan

> Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

> On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

>

>> Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't

>> leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned

>> "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I

>> fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor

>> gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs

>> that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb

>> top back on. I don't know, maybe?

>>

>> do not archive

>>

>> Pat Reilly

>>

>>> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

>>> Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400

>>> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

>>>

>>> 

>>>

>>> Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or  

>>> dirt

>>> in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with,

>>> I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty

>>> blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The

>>> perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I

>> wanted to

>>> get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size

>>> needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went

>> back

>>> to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed

>>> something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this

>>> thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could  

>>> have

>>> gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow

>>> so I can get some suggestions.

>>>

>>> Lynn Matteson

>>> Grass Lake, Michigan

>>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

>>> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:

>>>

>>>> 

>> <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

>>>>

>>>> Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up or down

>>>> on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a

>>>> blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you.

>>>>

>>>> --------

>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE

>>>> Leonard Perry

>>>> Soldotna AK

>>>> Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

>>>> 582 IVO IFA

>>>> Full Lotus 1260

>>>> 95% complete

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Read this topic online here:

>>>>

>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> <=============

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-

>> ============================================================ _-

>> forums.matronics.com_-

>> ============================================================ _-

>> contribution_-

>> ============================================================

>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Catz631(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: Bing carbs

Lynn,

   I attended the Lockwood school in Jan. We tore a carb completely apart and reassembled it as part of the school. The diaphragm is normally replaced do to time on the rubber part.(unless damaged of course) I replaced my diaphragms when I returned home from the school. The old ones appeared fine so I really doubt they needed it. I remember from the class that it is really easy to get the cast rubber protrusion on the diaphragm out of alignment with the corresponding slot in the carb casting. You have to hold it in the slot with your thumb while you assemble the two halves. The diaphragm is NOT glued down in any fashion.

   I don't know if this relates to your problem but you might check, if you have to disassemble them. I know I replaced the needles (again do the time on the rubber tips) and ended up going back to the originals because of fuel spitting out of the intakes.(springs too strong on the new needles I think)

   Please let us know what the problem was when you find it!

                                                    Thanks,Dick Maddux

                                                                Fox4-1200

                                                                Rotax 912UL

                                                                Pensacola,Fl 



Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: Bing carbs

Bad news, I called Bing about our Bing 64's, they said they will not work on the carbs used in aircraft, but will sell the parts to do your self.

  

 Ray



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:07:26 -0400

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this 

 problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the 

 area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my 

 carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I 

 will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to the 

 techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort 

 could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place, 

 letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air 

 without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds 

 the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems 

 to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be 

 made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read 

 somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.

 

 I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV 

 carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and 

 parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into 

 the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow gets 

 lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And 

 it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on the CV 

 carbs.

 

 I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain 

 parts, so this must be a common problem.

 

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 

 

 On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 

 > Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't 

 > leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned 

 > "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I 

 > fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor 

 > gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs 

 > that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb 

 > top back on. I don't know, maybe?

 >

 > do not archive

 >

 > Pat Reilly

 >

 > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

 > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400

 > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > >

 > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > >

 > > Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or dirt

 > > in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with,

 > > I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty

 > > blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The

 > > perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I 

 > wanted to

 > > get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size

 > > needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went 

 > back

 > > to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed

 > > something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this

 > > thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could have

 > > gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow

 > > so I can get some suggestions.

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson

 > > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:

 > >

 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" 

 > <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 > > >

 > > > Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up or down

 > > > on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a

 > > > blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you.

 > > >

 > > > --------

 > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > > > Leonard Perry

 > > > Soldotna AK

 > > > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > > > 582 IVO IFA

 > > > Full Lotus 1260

 > > > 95% complete

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > > Read this topic online here:

 > > >

 > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > ><=============

 > >

 > >

 > >

 >

 > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 > =================================== _- 

 > forums.matronics.com_- 

 > ========== _- 

 > contribution_- 

 > ================================

&g==
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


How well do you know your celebrity gossip? Talk celebrity smackdowns here.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: Bing carbs

I'll let you know, Dick. Right now I'm replacing fuel lines firewall  

forward, and checking fuel flow before and after.

Yes, I see how that diaphragm could get out of the slot. I've had the  

carb home here while I watched the race yesterday, just tinkering  

with it and reading the Big manual. I'm gonna gt real well acquainted  

with it before this problem is over. I'm also gonna try one of my old  

float needles, just to try something else.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual



On Mar 31, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Catz631(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn,

   I attended the Lockwood school in Jan. We tore a carb completely  

 apart and reassembled it as part of the school. The diaphragm is  

 normally replaced do to time on the rubber part.(unless damaged of  

 course) I replaced my diaphragms when I returned home from the  

 school. The old ones appeared fine so I really doubt they needed  

 it. I remember from the class that it is really easy to get the  

 cast rubber protrusion on the diaphragm out of alignment with the  

 corresponding slot in the carb casting. You have to hold it in the  

 slot with your thumb while you assemble the two halves. The  

 diaphragm is NOT glued down in any fashion.

   I don't know if this relates to your problem but you might check,  

 if you have to disassemble them. I know I replaced the needles  

 (again do the time on the rubber tips) and ended up going back to  

 the originals because of fuel spitting out of the intakes.(springs  

 too strong on the new needles I think)

   Please let us know what the problem was when you find it!

                                                    Thanks,Dick Maddux

                                                                 

 Fox4-1200

                                                                 

 Rotax 912UL

                                                                 

 Pensacola,Fl



 Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: Bing carbs

The Jabiru uses a CV carb, a 40mm, and sells the manual for aircraft  

carbs, so they must know that they are being used. Or is it just the  

64's that should not be used? No matter, they are sold to Jabiru as  

an aircraft carb, and Rotax uses them as well...maybe not the 40mm,  

but a CV carb just the same. Of course, the lawyers will deny that  

they approve any part for aircraft use.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual



On Mar 31, 2008, at 9:37 AM, RAY Gignac wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Bad news, I called Bing about our Bing 64's, they said they will  

 not work on the carbs used in aircraft, but will sell the parts to  

 do your self.



 Ray



 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

 > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:07:26 -0400

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this

 > problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the

 > area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my

 > carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I

 > will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to  

 the

 > techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort

 > could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,

 > letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air

 > without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds

 > the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It  

 seems

 > to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be

 > made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read

 > somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.

 >

 > I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV

 > carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and

 > parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into

 > the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow  

 gets

 > lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And

 > it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on the CV

 > carbs.

 >

 > I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain

 > parts, so this must be a common problem.

 >

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 >

 >

 > On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 >

 > > Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't

 > > leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned

 > > "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I

 > > fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor

 > > gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the  

 carbs

 > > that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb

 > > top back on. I don't know, maybe?

 > >

 > > do not archive

 > >

 > > Pat Reilly

 > >

 > > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > > Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

 > > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400

 > > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > > >

 > > > 

 <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > > >

 > > > Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage  

 or dirt

 > > > in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt  

 with,

 > > > I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but  

 pretty

 > > > blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The

 > > > perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I

 > > wanted to

 > > > get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size

 > > > needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went

 > > back

 > > > to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed

 > > > something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb,  

 but this

 > > > thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what  

 could have

 > > > gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines  

 tomorrow

 > > > so I can get some suggestions.

 > > >

 > > > Lynn Matteson

 > > > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > > > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > > On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:

 > > >

 > > > > 

 > > <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 > > > >

 > > > > Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up  

 or down

 > > > > on the jetting and it does not change, that would point  

 towards a

 > > > > blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for  

 you.

 > > > >

 > > > > --------

 > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > > > > Leonard Perry

 > > > > Soldotna AK

 > > > > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > > > > 582 IVO IFA

 > > > > Full Lotus 1260

 > > > > 95% complete

 > > > >

 > > > >

 > > > >

 > > > >

 > > > > Read this topic online here:

 > > > >

 > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

 > > > >

 > > > >

 > > > >

 > > > >

 > > > >

 > > > >

 > > > ><=============

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > >

 > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-

 > > =================================== _-

 > > forums.matronics.com_-

 > > ========== _-

 > > contribution_-

 > > ================================

 &g==

 >

 >

 >

 How well do you know your celebrity gossip? Talk celebrity  

 smackdowns here._- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

avidfox

Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Bing carbs

Lynn,

  Question:  Is the carb you use the same as on a 64 used on the Rotax 912UL? I have not researched this.

If so, you could install one, or both, of mine for trouble shooting purposes. I don't anticipate flying much for a while....got some jobs to do.

About  80 hrs TT and working fine.

It would require a drive to Howell (OZW) airport, but you're a travlin' man.



Steve

84KF (at) OZW

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: Bing carbs

mid range has been the most challenging part of tuning the bings for me.  have you tried raising the needle/lowering the circlip?

  

 installing the R3600 in a Hatz Classic.  almost done with the rough plumbing and wiring so I can drop the engine and cover the fuselage.  I figure it will take about a year to finish up.

  

 John

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> 



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson 

 

 Hi John- 

 After this problem came up, I pulled the carb off the engine and went 

 into the top to see what shape the diaphragm was in...it looks great. 

 It wasn't the main jet that I changed, but the needle jet. This is 

 the "cruise jet" more or less. It's the one that sits just above the 

 main jet on what they call the Mixing Tube (a/k/a Jet Stock), and 

 it's the one that the needle slides in and out of, changing the mid- 

 range mixture. I had read earlier that there was a tab that must be 

 oriented correctly into the indentation, and of course it was. If 

 this were to be assembled out of line, I'd think that a vacuum leak [b]>  would exist, and running the engine might not happen...not well anyway. 

 I've also heard of gluing this diaphragm in place, but this wasn't 

 done on my carb that I could detect anyway. I'll get Bing's take on 

 this practice, unless somebody can tell me otherwise. 

 Right now I've got the carb sitting in front of a picture of Dale 

 Earnhardt, hoping that the Intimidator's glare will whip the carb 

 into shape. : ) 

 

 What have you got the Rotec in, John? A Kitfox? I met Joe Meyeres 

 from Olathe, KS at last year's Oshkosh, and he has a 7 cyl Rotec in a 

 'fox. I just googled his site: 

 

 www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/joemeyeres.htm 

 

 

 Lynn Matteson 

 Grass Lake, Michigan 

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 

 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual 

 

 

 On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote: 

 <  BR>&gt ; > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net 

 > 

 > Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just change the 

 > main jet from the bowl? 

 > 

 > If from the top is is critical that the diaphra be oriented 

 > properly with the index nub properly seated in the appropriate 

 > indentation. 

 > 

 > Applying the enrichener for improvement does speak to being lean 

 > for some reason. 

 > 

 > Sorry not to be more helpful 

 > 

 > John Kerr 

 > 912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing 

 > 

 > -------------- Original message ---------------------- 

 > From: Lynn Matteson 

 >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson 

 >> 

 >> Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this 

 &  gt;&gt ; problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the 

 >> area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my 

 >> carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I 

 >> will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to the 

 >> techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort 

 >> could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place, 

 >> letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air 

 >> without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds 

 >> the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems 

 >> to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be 

 >> made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read 

 >> somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in  , but  not sure. 

 >> 

 >> I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV 

 >> carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and 

 >> parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into 

 >> the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow gets 

 >> lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And 

 >> it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on the CV 

 >> carbs. 

 >> 

 >> I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain 

 >> parts, so this must be a common problem. 

 >> 

 >> 

 >> Lynn Matteson 

 >> Grass Lake, Michigan 

 >> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 

 >> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual 

 >> 

 >> 

 >&  gt; On  Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote: 

 >> 

 >>> Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't 

 >>> leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned 

 >>> "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I 

 >>> fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor 

 >>> gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs 

 >>> that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb 

 >>> top back on. I don't know, maybe? 

 >>> 

 >>> do not archive 

 >>> 

 >>> Pat Reilly 

 >>> 

 >>>> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net 

 >>>> Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs 

 >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400 

 >>>> To: kit  fox-li st(at)matronics.com 

 >>>> 

 >>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson 

 >>>> 

 >>>> Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or 

 >>>> dirt 

 >>>> in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with, 

 >>>> I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty 

 >>>> blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The 

 >>>> perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I 

 >>> wanted to 

 >>>> get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size 

 >>>> needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went 

 >>> back 

 >>>> to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed 

 >>  >&g t; something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this 

 >>>> thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could 

 >>>> have 

 >>>> gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow 

 >>>> so I can get some suggestions. 

 >>>> 

 >>>> Lynn Matteson 

 >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan 

 >>>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 

 >>>> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual 

 >>>> 

 >>>> 

 >>>> 

 >>>> On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote: 

 >>>> 

 >>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" 

 >>> 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go u  p or d own 

 >>>>> on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a 

 >>>>> blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you. 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> -------- 

 >>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE 

 >>>>> Leonard Perry 

 >>>>> Soldotna AK 

 >>>>> Avid "C" / Mk IV 

 >>>>> 582 IVO IFA 

 >>>>> Full Lotus 1260 

 >>>>> 95% complete 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> Read this topic online here: 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>> 

 >>>>>   

&g  y List   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Bing carbs

For some  reason the Jabiru mods to the carb include using a  

"proprietary" needle, using just one groove. Later Service Bulletins  

have you installing a 2-groove needle which is fatter at the top (low  

range and idle) and a larger needle jet, to control EGT's a little  

better.

I'm thinkin' positive that I will reinstall carb, light it up and  

it'll be ready to fly! Perhaps God has different ideas though,  

because it's foggier than hell here today. : )



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

do not archive

On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:20 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   mid range has been the most challenging part of tuning the bings  

 for me.  have you tried raising the needle/lowering the circlip?



 installing the R3600 in a Hatz Classic.  almost done with the rough  

 plumbing and wiring so I can drop the engine and cover the  

 fuselage.  I figure it will take about a year to finish up.



 John



 -------------- Original message --------------

 From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>



 > 

 >

 > Hi John-

 > After this problem came up, I pulled the carb off the engine and  

 went

 > into the top to see what shape the diaphragm was in...it looks  

 great.

 > It wasn't the main jet that I changed, but the needle jet. This is

 > the "cruise jet" more or less. It's the one that sits just above the

 > main jet on what they call the Mixing Tube (a/k/a Jet Stock), and

 > it's the one that the needle slides in and out of, changing the mid-

 > range mixture. I had read earlier that there was a tab that must be

 > oriented correctly into the indentation, and of course it was. If

 > this were to be assembled out of line, I'd think that a vacuum  

 leak > would exist, and running the engine might not happen...not  

 well anyway.

 > I've also heard of gluing this diaphragm in place, but this wasn't

 > done on my carb that I could detect anyway. I'll get Bing's take on

 > this practice, unless somebody can tell me otherwise.

 > Right now I've got the carb sitting in front of a picture of Dale

 > Earnhardt, hoping that the Intimidator's glare will whip the carb

 > into shape. : )

 >

 > What have you got the Rotec in, John? A Kitfox? I met Joe Meyeres

 > from Olathe, KS at last year's Oshkosh, and he has a 7 cyl Rotec  

 in a

 > 'fox. I just googled his site:

 >

 > www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/joemeyeres.htm

 >

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 >

 >

 > On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:

 > < BR>> ; > 

 > >

 > > Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just change the

 > > main jet from the bowl?

 > >

 > > If from the top is is critical that the diaphra be oriented

 > > properly with the index nub properly seated in the appropriate

 > > indentation.

 > >

 > > Applying the enrichener for improvement does speak to being lean

 > > for some reason.

 > >

 > > Sorry not to be more helpful

 > >

 > > John Kerr

 > > 912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing

 > >

 > > -------------- Original message ----------------------

 > > From: Lynn Matteson

 > >> 

 > >>

 > >> Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this

 > & gt;> ; problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think  

 that's the

 > >> area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my

 > >> carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this  

 far. I

 > >> will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk  

 to the

 > >> techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some  

 sort

 > >> could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,

 > >> letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold  

 air

 > >> without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that  

 holds

 > >> the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position.  

 It seems

 > >> to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test  

 could be

 > >> made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read

 > >> somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in , but not sure.

 > >>

 > >> I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV

 > >> carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and

 > >> parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point  

 into

 > >> the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the  

 arrow gets

 > >> lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's  

 pointing. And

 > >> it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on  

 the CV

 > >> carbs.

 > >>

 > >> I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in  

 certain

 > >> parts, so this must be a common problem.

 > >>

 > >>

 > >> Lynn Matteson

 > >> Grass Lake, Michigan

 > >> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > >> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 > >>

 > >>

 > >& gt; On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 > >>

 > >>> Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't

 > >>> leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned

 > >>> "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not  

 since I

 > >>> fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor

 > >>> gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the  

 carbs

 > >>> that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the  

 carb

 > >>> top back on. I don't know, maybe?

 > >>>

 > >>> do not archive

 > >>>

 > >>> Pat Reilly

 > >>>

 > >>>> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > >>>> Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

 > >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400

 > >>>> To: kit fox-li st(at)matronics.com

 > >>>>

 > >>>> 

 > >>>>

 > >>>> Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or

 > >>>> dirt

 > >>>> in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt  

 with,

 > >>>> I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but  

 pretty

 > >>>> blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The

 > >>>> perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I

 > >>> wanted to

 > >>>> get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size

 > >>>> needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I  

 went

 > >>> back

 > >>>> to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed

 > >> >&g t; something up in the mid-range transition area of the  

 carb, but this

 > >>>> thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could

 > >>>> have

 > >>>> gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines  

 tomorrow

 > >>>> so I can get some suggestions.

 > >>>>

 > >>>> Lynn Matteson

 > >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan

 > >>>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > >>>> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 > >>>>

 > >>>>

 > >>>>

 > >>>> On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:

 > >>>>

 > >>>>> 

 > >>>

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>> Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go u p  

 or d own

 > >>>>> on the jetting and it does not change, that would point  

 towards a

 > >>>>> blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for  

 you.

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>> --------

 > >>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > >>>>> Leonard Perry

 > >>>>> Soldotna AK

 > >>>>> Avid "C" / Mk IV

 > >>>>> 582 IVO IFA

 > >>>>> Full Lotus 1260

 > >>>>> 95% complete

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>> Read this topic online here:

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>>

 > >>>>>

 &g y List _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: Bing carbs

Thanks for the offer, Steve, but I think the 64 is a different breed.  

My carb ( a 94 CV) is the constant depression (does this describe the  

way people feel who work on the damn things?) carb, also known as a  

CV...don't ask me why, and the person I talked to at Bing didn't know  

the connection. Suffice it to say that constant velocity and constant  

depression mean the same thing to Bing. I got some good feedback from  

Bing, including the diagnosis that my diaphragm is probably ok, and  

there is no test, as I had hoped, to tell whether or not it was good  

other than a visual, and that it did not "flop all over the place."  

So I'm putting it back together, changing some fuel lines, and if all  

goes well I'll report what I did.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:11 AM, avidfox wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn,

   Question:  Is the carb you use the same as on a 64 used on the  

 Rotax 912UL? I have not researched this.

 If so, you could install one, or both, of mine for trouble shooting  

 purposes. I don't anticipate flying much for a while....got some  

 jobs to do.

 About  80 hrs TT and working fine.

 It would require a drive to Howell (OZW) airport, but you're a  

 travlin' man.



 Steve

 84KF (at) OZW





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173888#173888

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

Lynn, There wasn't any glue on the Honda Interceptor carb diaphrams from the factoy either. But, I gave up took the bike to a dealer, and he said all he did was lightly rubber cement the diaphram to the carb body to avoid distorition of the diaphram when screwing the carb top back on. I don't know if that is what is happening. Maybe?

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

   



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs

 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:01:23 -0400

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Hi John-

 After this problem came up, I pulled the carb off the engine and went 

 into the top to see what shape the diaphragm was in...it looks great. 

 It wasn't the main jet that I changed, but the needle jet. This is 

 the "cruise jet" more or less. It's the one that sits just above the 

 main jet on what they call the Mixing Tube (a/k/a Jet Stock), and 

 it's the one that the needle slides in and out of, changing the mid- 

 range mixture. I had read earlier that there was a tab that must be 

 oriented correctly into the indentation, and of course it was. If 

 this were to be assembled out of line, I'd think that a vacuum leak 

 would exist, and running the engine might not happen...not well anyway.

 I've also heard of gluing this diaphragm in place, but this wasn't 

 done on my carb that I could detect anyway. I'll get Bing's take on 

 this practice, unless somebody can tell me otherwise.

 Right now I've got the carb sitting in front of a picture of Dale 

 Earnhardt, hoping that the Intimidator's glare will whip the carb 

 into shape. : )

 

 What have you got the Rotec in, John? A Kitfox? I met Joe Meyeres 

 from Olathe, KS at last year's Oshkosh, and he has a 7 cyl Rotec in a 

 'fox. I just googled his site:

 

 www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/joemeyeres.htm

 

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 

 

 On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:

 

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net

 >

 > Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just change the 

 > main jet from the bowl?

 >

 > If from the top is is critical that the diaphra be oriented 

 > properly with the index nub properly seated in the appropriate 

 > indentation.

 >

 > Applying the enrichener for improvement does speak to being lean 

 > for some reason.

 >

 > Sorry not to be more helpful

 >

 > John Kerr

 > 912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing

 >

 > -------------- Original message ----------------------

 > From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 >>

 >> Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this

 >> problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the

 >> area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my

 >> carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I

 >> will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to the

 >> techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort

 >> could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,

 >> letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air

 >> without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds

 >> the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems

 >> to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be

 >> made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read

 >> somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.

 >>

 >> I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV

 >> carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and

 >> parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into

 >> the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow gets

 >> lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And

 >> it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on the CV

 >> carbs.

 >>

 >> I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain

 >> parts, so this must be a common problem.

 >>

 >>

 >> Lynn Matteson

 >> Grass Lake, Michigan

 >> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 >> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 >>

 >>

 >> On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 >>

 >>> Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't

 >>> leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned

 >>> "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I

 >>> fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor

 >>> gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs

 >>> that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb

 >>> top back on. I don't know, maybe?

 >>>

 >>> do not archive

 >>>

 >>> Pat Reilly

 >>>

 >>>> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 >>>> Subject: Re: Re: Bing carbs

 >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400

 >>>> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >>>>

 >>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 >>>>

 >>>> Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or 

 >>>> dirt

 >>>> in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with,

 >>>> I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty

 >>>> blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The

 >>>> perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I

 >>> wanted to

 >>>> get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size

 >>>> needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went

 >>> back

 >>>> to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed

 >>>> something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this

 >>>> thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could 

 >>>> have

 >>>> gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow

 >>>> so I can get some suggestions.

 >>>>

 >>>> Lynn Matteson

 >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan

 >>>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 >>>> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>> On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:

 >>>>

 >>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer"

 >>> <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 >>>>>

 >>>>> Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up or down

 >>>>> on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a

 >>>>> blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you.

 >>>>>

 >>>>> --------

 >>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE

 >>>>> Leonard Perry

 >>>>> Soldotna AK

 >>>>> Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 >>>>> 582 IVO IFA

 >>>>> Full Lotus 1260

 >>>>> 95% complete

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>> Read this topic online here:

 >>>>>

 >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>> <=============

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>

 >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-

 >>> ========== _-

 >>> forums.matronics.com_-

 >>> =================================== _-

 >>> contribution_-

 >>> ===================================

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 

 

&g======================
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   =================

 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: Bing carbs

Success! Or a least 99% certain of success. I haven't flown it yet,  

but it looks promising. I ran it up after the fix, and it was a  

marked improvement....I tried to force the throttle open quicker than  

normal and it hesitated a bit but took the bait. It no longer just  

quits. I was pushing it a bit quicker than normal, which was not a  

fair test, but it was taking it.

Now for the cure....it seemed to be between two things....low float  

level, maybe the wrong float needle. I had changed the float needle  

and seat back in Dec., and had told Bing to send me the correct  

needle for the 2.5 mm seat, and they sent me the light-springed  

version. They are available in light, medium and heavy springs. The  

light one worked right up until last week when I changed to the 2.78  

mm needle jet, and that's where all this nonsense began. When I  

changed back to the 2.76 mm needle jet, it still quit during mid- 

range, so something had to be wrong other than the needle jets. Then  

I started to change things. I changed float level and that didn't  

help. What finally worked was going back to the medium spring on the  

float needle, and setting the float level absolutely parallel to the  

carb base...I had it much too low, but in my defense, I was setting  

it by opening the fuel flow, and raising the float to shut off the  

flow and noting the position of the float...this was with the carb on  

the plane. Today, with the carb off the plane and inverted, I set the  

float to be parallel to the base with the medium-spring needle, and  

that's what worked. The real proof will come tomorrow, if the weather  

is good enough for a flight.



Thanks for all the input, guys and gals. Like it says in the manual,  

try one thing at a time or you won't know what cured the problem. If  

I could accept that philosophy, I might make a better mechanic, after  

being one for all these years.  : )



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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