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peteohms
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX
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 Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: TCP |
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I read that Marvel Mystery oil is a substitute for TCP. Any experience out there?
Pete Christensen
Kitfox III N73BH
http://www.pipercubforum.com/marvel.htm
[quote][b]
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Leander, TX
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wingsdown(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: TCP |
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I actually used both but they do totally different things. Marvel is a lubricant and the TCP works to keep lead deposits soft and blown out. At leasts that's how I understand it. I now prefer the Lucas fuel treatment to the marvel and I have no need of the TCP. There is also another product that's does the same thing as TCP. I do not recall the name though. If you are using auto fuel you do not need the TCP.
Rick
[quote]
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: TCP |
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Considering MMO is mostly Stoddard solvent It may work as well on the upper cylinder... I doubt it will do the square root of sweet nothing to protect your main bearings from lead plating if you use 100LL.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 8:04 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: TCP
I read that Marvel Mystery oil is a substitute for TCP. Any experience out there?
Pete Christensen
Kitfox III N73BH
http://www.pipercubforum.com/marvel.htm
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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Mnflyer
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: TCP |
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: TCP
Considering MMO is mostly Stoddard solvent It may work as well on the upper cylinder... I doubt it will do the square root of sweet nothing to protect your main bearings from lead plating if you use 100LL.
Noel So what proof can you offer that MMO is mostly Stoddard solvent?
I,m curious have never seen it listed as part of the formula.
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MNFlyer
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ronlee
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: TCP |
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I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay?
The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent.
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Ron Lee
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: TCP |
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Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1
if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #)
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1
| Quote: | Subject: Re: TCP
From: rlee468(at)comcast.net
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net>
I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay?
The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719
&g==========
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: TCP |
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Those long links are hard to get right. If it doesn't work, google Marvel mystery oil FAA and it will be on the first page, 9th item down titled NYCO2LA I'll try the link again, left out a 2 last time
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1
| Quote: | From: thesupe(at)hotmail.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: TCP
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 04:21:33 +0000
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1
if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #)
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1
| Quote: | Subject: Re: TCP
From: rlee468(at)comcast.net
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net>
I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay?
The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719
&g==========
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arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: TCP |
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I have seen the formula somewhere... Mineral oil, Stoddard Solvent and lard
were in it...I'm not sure about additional ingredients. I think Dave Fisher
may have the formula somewhere. It has been posted here before.
Discussion on MMO is something akin to discussing the different colours of
Scotch Brite.
Noel
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: TCP |
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Try this one:
http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/msds/docs/wcd00043/wcd04377.htm
They don't give the percentages but they do give
1,2 Di-chloro-benzene
Mineral spirits ( Stoddard Solvent)
NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS
I have seen reference to lard mentioned many times.. Being organic it may not have to be listed.
Noel
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: TCP |
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MMO -- 1 % lard LOL
MMO == snake oil or close to it .
It is not the same as TCP. IT just a worthless additive.
Some will argue that it a "gotta have " but the rest of us get thousands of hours >WITHOUT MMO <
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Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
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Mnflyer
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: TCP |
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Well we are really getting somewhere now, we went from mostly Stoddard solvent to less than 25% (at least thats the thinking) then we get the claim of last resort "Its Snake Oil" that pretty much covers it when when ones an authority on things, I put it in the same context as 2 stroke engines are a grenade with the pin about 80% out.
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MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: TCP |
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How much Stoddard Solvent?
Noel
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: TCP |
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Who said mostly Stoddard Solvent?.... Come to mention it who asked if Stoddard solvent was actually an ingredient?
I think we got a little off the topic here. My contention is this: While I have no doubt TCP will help keep the top end of a four stroke engine clean, in a two stroke engine the only thing up there is the spark plug and rings.
In their own instructions as to how it works they (TCP Manufacturers) say it has to be burned to work. In the base of the two stroke engine there is no burning in the base so there is no protection from plating lead onto your main roller bearings. Those roller bearings are what I would be most interested in protecting. One way of doing that is to dilute the 100 LL with MOGAS or avoid the 100LL as much as possible.
I am still adamant about not using ethanol anywhere near a plane....Either in the gas tank or the pilot before/while flying. It may be OK for cleaning a few parts. Is it really worth taking a chance on? Not for me it isn’t! I’m not flying tonight so it’s getting close to time for a Rum and coke...
Now, let’s talk a bit about two stroke engines( you mentioned them)... Do they have a bad rep? YES. Do they deserve it? Not in the past ten to fifteen years. They have such a high power to weight ratio one has to be careful how you handle them. An EGT should be considered a basic don’t leave home without it, engine instrument.
There are all sorts of legends going around about four stroke engines flying all over the place with one or two jugs blown... Some of them may even be true. The thing to remember because it is so much higher stressed than the four stroke engine if you blow a jug ( why would you, there’s no valve train.) you will experience a much greater loss of power. Over the past twenty years the two stroke engine has been de-rated and refined to the point where it is as reliable as the four stroke... or at least close enough for government work.
My personal experience is; My two stroke 582 has always gotten me home. A couple of times with partial power that had little or nothing to do with being a two stroke engine. I’ve also seen more than one Lyc. that has come apart on take off ... Pin 80 % out...Really?? But they do give excellent BANG for the buck.
[img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01C89761.38F06680[/img]
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: TCP |
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I couldn’t get the link to work but the percentages look familiar.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:52 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: TCP
Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1
if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #)
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1
> Subject: Re: TCP
> From: rlee468(at)comcast.net
> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net>
>
> I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay?
> The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent.
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719
>
&g==========
>
>
>
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: TCP |
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Hi Noel, I posted another message right after that one that had the right link on it. I'll try it again, otherwise google Marvel mystery oil FAA and look at the topic NYCO2LA it was the ninth item down on the first page when I checked. Here is the link again, hope it works
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1
Jim Chuk Avids Mhn
| Quote: | From: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: TCP
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 22:09:23 -0230
.ExternalClass .EC_shape {;} .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';} .ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';} .ExternalClass pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} .ExternalClass span.EC_HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;} .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle20 {font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} .ExternalClass .EC_MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} (at)page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;}
I couldn’t get the link to work but the percentages look familiar.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:52 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP
Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1
if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #)
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1
| Quote: | Subject: Re: TCP
From: rlee468(at)comcast.net
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net>
I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay?
The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719
&g==========
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Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0123456789
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Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! [quote][b]
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: TCP |
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Thanks Jim
I saved the URL for the next time someone asks for the ingredients.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 11:35 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: TCP
Hi Noel, I posted another message right after that one that had the right link on it. I'll try it again, otherwise google Marvel mystery oil FAA and look at the topic NYCO2LA it was the ninth item down on the first page when I checked. Here is the link again, hope it works
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1
Jim Chuk Avids Mhn
From: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: TCP
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 22:09:23 -0230
I couldn’t get the link to work but the percentages look familiar.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:52 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: TCP
Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1
if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #)
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1
> Subject: Re: TCP
> From: rlee468(at)comcast.net
> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net>
>
> I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay?
> The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent.
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719
>
&g==========
>
>
>
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Noel Loveys
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: TCP |
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A few of things of interest to note from the NTSB crash report.
<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>The MMO seems to be mixed at close to double the recommended strength.
<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>It didn’t work... The whole top end was packed with soot. And the CR were all below spec.
<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>It was probably the poor condition of the engine that caused the loss of power.
<![if !supportLists]>4. <![endif]>An investigation into the practices of the FBO should be conducted.
I’d love to know who passed the inspection on an engine with a 5/80 CR. That didn’t happen overnight.
The pilot was darn unlucky the plane even left the ground. Sounds like the only thing working properly was the fuel selector valve.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:28 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: TCP
Those long links are hard to get right. If it doesn't work, google Marvel mystery oil FAA and it will be on the first page, 9th item down titled NYCO2LA I'll try the link again, left out a 2 last time
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1
From: thesupe(at)hotmail.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: TCP
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 04:21:33 +0000
Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1
if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #)
http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1
> Subject: Re: TCP
> From: rlee468(at)comcast.net
> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net>
>
> I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay?
> The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent.
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719
>
&g==========
>
>
>
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