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Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

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Martin Pohl

Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: CH-8645 Jona SG, Switzerland

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of the mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which is the "official" maneuvering speed for the CH601XL.



Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 kts... What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations?



Thank you for any information!



Cheers Martin

_________________
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/Main.html

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

maauvering speeds and V speeds are posted on the cover of your PLans.  Manauvering speed is 103 mph.



Juan



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notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

I guess I messed something..  I dont recall ever seeing a placarded 

manuvering speed....

How is it marked on your glass ??  Mine is green to 130 and then goes yellow 

to 150 then RED line.....

SW

---

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

Maneuvering speed is not marked on the ASI.  I suspect that European regs may require a placard - FAA does not.



Tim



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Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
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Martin Pohl

Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: CH-8645 Jona SG, Switzerland

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

Thank you for the link to the plan's first page. The 103 mph correspond to the 90kts indicated on my plans.



There is not only a european requirement, but also a FAA-requirement for a placard on the instrument panel showing the maneuvering speed: see FAR23.1563.



http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=4e6cf388cbe492dba14c52d456ca0fe7&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:1.0.1.3.10.7.105.25&idno=14



You will find the placard on every certified airplane (and as far as I know it is part of the plane's airworthiness...).



Cheers Martin

_________________
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/Main.html

Martin Pohl

Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: CH-8645 Jona SG, Switzerland

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

Sabrina, thank you for the info. I didn't know that...



Nevertheless here in Europe (or at least in Switzerland), we have to install this VA-placard before showing it to the aviation authority.



Cheers Martin

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Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/Main.html

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

The information I received from ZAC was 110 mph (96 kts) but mine is an 

early kit, that information may be for the original gross weight of 1400 

lbs. The maneuvering speed goes down with decreasing weight.



In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just 

must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of the mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which is the "official" maneuvering speed for the CH601XL.

 

 Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 kts... What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations?

 

 Thank you for any information!

 

 Cheers Martin

 

 


	


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Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

Strange... Looking at the front page of my planes there is no maneuvering speed called out. Just Top, Cruise, Stall and Vne.



1st Edition 04/02.

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601XL Under Construction
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Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

Either a operating manual or placards may be used to provide data such a maneuvering speed. The manner of compliance is specified by the type certificate.  For example, the Cessna 172 only calls for displaying maneuvering speed starting with 1971 models, stating:  This airplane must be operated in compliance with the operating limitations stated

in the form of placards, markings, and manuals.

MAXIMUMS

Normal Category 

Maneuvering speed (CAS) 122 mph (106 knots)

Gross weight 2300 lbs.



I don't know if it was on a placard or in the manual after 1971.  My 1968 172 had it only in the manual. 



The attached info is from the XL plans dated 3/06.



Tim

V_Speeds.jpg

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jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just 

 must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.


	


Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the

top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC                   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com      http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (FRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

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AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

Not a dumb question, Jay.

I often forget what the white arc is for. Fortunately, the 1st page in the 

plans gives the definition--the white arc covers the speed range between 

the stall speed with flaps extended and the max flap extend speed. My 601 

dwg, 6-X-1, gives Vs0 and Vfe as 44 and 80 mph from while Va, the 

maneuvering speed is 103 mph.

Terry

At 11:15 PM 4/21/2008 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   > In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just

 > must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.

Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the

top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?

--

Jay Maynard, K5ZC

Terry Phillips

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons 

are done; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

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Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

Nope.

---

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

Maneuvering speed is not depicted on the ASI.  It varies with weight, actually decreasing as the weight of the aircraft decreases.  In my 1968 C172, maneuvering speed at gross was 122 mph.  Funny thing is, the airplane's cruise speed was less.  Such was not the case with my 182 which had a maneuvering speed of 126 mph but cruised at 155. 



In the case of the XL, you'll want to slow down when it gets bumpy 



Tim



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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

At 09:15 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the

top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?


	


I thought the top of the white arc was the flap extended speed, Vfe.



I think I've seen a yellow line crossing the green that reflects Va, 

but Va varies a great deal with changes in actual aircraft weight.



Paul

XL fuselage

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bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

The top of the white arc is the maximum operating speed with full flaps

(Vfe). Maneuvering speed is not a standard marking on the ASI. It is

usually found in the POH for gross weight and decreases with decreasing

weight of the airplane.

Jay Maynard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote:

> In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just 

> must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.

 Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the

 top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?

-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

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bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed

The top of the white arc is the maximum operating speed with full flaps 

(Vfe). Maneuvering speed is not a standard marking on the ASI. It is 

usually found in the POH for gross weight and decreases with decreasing 

weight of the airplane.

Jay Maynard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote:

> In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just 

> must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.

 Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the

 top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?

-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
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