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Mozam
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 85
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 Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: Final answer on ethanol testing |
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This is for informational purposes only. I am lucky enough to live where ethanol free gasoline is available. If you're not sure of your supply this info may come in handy.
A while back we had a running discussion about testing auto gasoline for the presence of any ethanol. There was some confusion about the testing procedure, specifically whether a small amount of water will "pull" the ethanol out of the gasoline. The answer is YES it will.
The following is taken verbatim from an FAA Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin, dated 27 OCT 06:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/topics/saibce-07-06.pdf
If you are unsure about the presence of alcohol in your automobile gasoline, the following test can be performed:
a. Using a glass or chemical-resistant plastic (such as TPX) container, mark ten equally spaced volumes. A graduated cylinder is ideal; however, a non-tapered glass jar, such as a large (quart) olive bottle, will work.
b. Add one part water (approximately 100 ml) into the container, fill to the first mark, and then add nine parts (approximately 900 ml) of automobile gasoline, fill to the top mark. Shake thoroughly, let stand for 10 minutes or until automobile gasoline is again bright and clear. Record the apparent level of the line between the automobile gasoline and water.
3. If alcohol is present in the automobile gasoline, the water will absorb it, and the amount of water will appear to increase, indicating the automobile gasoline should not be used in the aircraft. However, if the water level remains the same, no alcohol is present in the automobile gasoline, and it can be used in the aircraft.
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brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: Final answer on ethanol testing |
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On May 4, 2008, at 2:42 PM, Mozam wrote:
| Quote: |
This is for informational purposes only. I am lucky enough to live
where ethanol free gasoline is available. If you're not sure of
your supply this info may come in handy.
A while back we had a running discussion about testing auto gasoline
for the presence of any ethanol. There was some confusion about the
testing procedure, specifically whether a small amount of water will
"pull" the ethanol out of the gasoline. The answer is YES it will.
The following is taken verbatim from an FAA Special Airworthiness
Information Bulletin, dated 27 OCT 06:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/topics/saibce-07-06.pdf
|
In your reference above it says:
There is an increasing use of ethanol in
automobile gasolines. The Energy Policy Act
of 2005 replaces the 2 percent oxygen standard
Alcohol present in automobile
gasoline is subject to phase separation,
which happens when the fuel is cooled
as a result of the aircraft’s climbing to
higher altitude. When the alcohol
separates from the gasoline, it may
carry water that has been held in
solution and that cannot be handled by
the sediment bowl.
To me this implies that the alcohol holds water in the fuel, not that
the water pulls the alcohol out of the fuel. And that is certainly how
I learned it and it is certainly what I remember from having
constructed alcohol-in-fuel testers before.
But, what the heck, I have been wrong many times and my memory isn't
what it used to be. I think I feel an experiment coming on.
| Quote: | If you are unsure about the presence of alcohol in your automobile
gasoline, the following test can be performed:
a. Using a glass or chemical-resistant plastic (such as TPX)
container, mark ten equally spaced volumes. A graduated cylinder is
ideal; however, a non-tapered glass jar, such as a large (quart)
olive bottle, will work.
b. Add one part water (approximately 100 ml) into the container,
fill to the first mark, and then add nine parts (approximately 900
ml) of automobile gasoline, fill to the top mark. Shake thoroughly,
let stand for 10 minutes or until automobile gasoline is again
bright and clear. Record the apparent level of the line between the
automobile gasoline and water.
3. If alcohol is present in the automobile gasoline, the water will
absorb it, and the amount of water will appear to increase,
indicating the automobile gasoline should not be used in the
aircraft. However, if the water level remains the same, no alcohol
is present in the automobile gasoline, and it can be used in the
aircraft.
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Now we know that no one would ever publish something that had errors
in it, especially the FAA, so it can't possibly be wrong. OTOH, did
you actually try this under controlled conditions to see what happened?
BTW, the last sentence is correct: if the water level stays the same
the fuel is safe to use. I suspect that no one ordinarily notices
whether the apparent water level goes up or down, just that it is
different.
The only path to the answer is to actually try it out. I went looking
for an olive jar to try it out for myself but can't find one in the
house. I have test-tubes and graduated cylinders at school which I can
grab tomorrow in order to perform this test. Once I do that then *I*
will have the final answer on ethanol testing regardless of what
*anyone* has to say about it.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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Mozam
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Final answer on ethanol testing |
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| Quote: | | Once I do that then *I* will have the final answer on ethanol testing regardless of what *anyone* has to say about it. |
Below is a cut and paste from an EAA article on their web site today. Is it possible BOTH the FAA and EAA got this very simple test wrong?
>> EAA’s auto fuel Alcohol Test Kit allows a pilot or aircraft maintenance technician to make preventative tests on auto fuel, even before fuel is purchased for an aircraft. Simply pour water, then auto fuel, in the included test tube and shake it to mix the contents. When the mixture has settled within five to 10 minutes, a gauge on the test tube indicates whether the water level has risen. An increase in the amount of water on the gauge indicates that alcohol is present in the fuel. The gauge will also indicate the percentage of alcohol. EAA’s kit is simpler than previous tests, as much less fuel is used to make a determination. <<
http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/2008-05-08_autofuel.asp
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steve.fox(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: Final answer on ethanol testing |
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The day I see the final answer to anything on the Yak List will be the day I know I can flap my arms and fly 
Stephen Fox
Consulting Partner/Facilitator & Trainer
thinkx Intellectual Capital
innovation drives productivity
ideas drive innovation
thinkx drives ideas
http://www.thinkxic.com
email: steve.fox(at)thinkxic.com (steve.fox(at)thinkxic.com)
Boston Office: 617-379-0865
New Hampshire: 603.924.8660
On May 16, 2008, at 9:13 AM, Mozam wrote:
[quote]
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n21740(at)embarqmail.com
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: Final answer on ethanol testing |
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Steve,
You can!
Phil 'Shortbus' Cogan
Nanchang CJ6A
N21740
<![endif]--><![if !vml]>[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C8B73C.C27B4B40[/img]<![endif]>
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Fox
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 9:52 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Final answer on ethanol testing
The day I see the final answer to anything on the Yak List will be the day I know I can flap my arms and fly
Stephen Fox
Consulting Partner/Facilitator & Trainer
thinkx Intellectual Capital
innovation drives productivity
ideas drive innovation
thinkx drives ideas
http://www.thinkxic.com
email: steve.fox(at)thinkxic.com (steve.fox(at)thinkxic.com)
Boston Office: 617-379-0865
New Hampshire: 603.924.8660
On May 16, 2008, at 9:13 AM, Mozam wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mozam" <sdalton(at)hughes.net (sdalton(at)hughes.net)>
| Quote: |
Once I do that then *I* will have the final answer on ethanol testing regardless of what *anyone* has to say about it.
|
Below is a cut and paste from an EAA article on their web site today. Is it possible BOTH the FAA and EAA got this very simple test wrong?
| Quote: | | Quote: |
EAA’s auto fuel Alcohol Test Kit allows a pilot or aircraft maintenance technician to make preventative tests on auto fuel, even before fuel is purchased for an aircraft. Simply pour water, then auto fuel, in the included test tube and shake it to mix the contents. When the mixture has settled within five to 10 minutes, a gauge on the test tube indicates whether the water level has risen. An increase in the amount of water on the gauge indicates that alcohol is present in the fuel. The gauge will also indicate the percentage of alcohol. EAA’s kit is simpler than previous tests, as much less fuel is used to make a determination.
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183423#183423
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Thank you for your generous support!
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talew(at)bellsouth.net
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: Final answer on ethanol testing |
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I have a fuel tester and it works exactly as the EAA describes.
Terry Lewis
---
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drc(at)wscare.com
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Final answer on ethanol testing |
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Does this even mean that the Mogas sold on the field (if its
available) has ethanol as a contaminant?
MTW now has Mogas on the field, last I checked it was about $3.75 per
gal and they are notoriously high for 100LL - they were selling 100LL
for about $5.35 several weeks ago. So it was $1.60 cheaper for the
mogas on the field - but if what say is true, how can they guarantee
it free of ethanol?
Herb
On May 16, 2008, at 8:13 AM, Mozam wrote:
| Quote: |
> Once I do that then *I* will have the final answer on ethanol
> testing regardless of what *anyone* has to say about it.
Below is a cut and paste from an EAA article on their web site
today. Is it possible BOTH the FAA and EAA got this very simple
test wrong?
>> EAA’s auto fuel Alcohol Test Kit allows a pilot or aircraft
>> maintenance technician to make preventative tests on auto fuel,
>> even before fuel is purchased for an aircraft. Simply pour water,
>> then auto fuel, in the included test tube and shake it to mix the
>> contents. When the mixture has settled within five to 10 minutes,
>> a gauge on the test tube indicates whether the water level has
>> risen. An increase in the amount of water on the gauge indicates
>> that alcohol is present in the fuel. The gauge will also indicate
>> the percentage of alcohol. EAA’s kit is simpler than previous
>> tests, as much less fuel is used to make a determination.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183423#183423
|
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talew(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: Final answer on ethanol testing |
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You must get a tester and use on all mogas.
Terry Lewis
---
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