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Riveting the stab

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pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: Riveting the stab

I shot 8 AD5 rivets on one of the hinges today. Since I have no basement or garage, I'm building in my hangar.

Anyway if you drill the hinges and brackets to the drawing, you will have difficulty setting the rivets over the doublers. New builders take note, subtract a couple mm from the outboard locations. I had to cut away the nose piece of one of my riveters to shoot the A5s, and sand off some from the side of the solid rivet set to get in next to the doublers. Also had to drill out one particular rivet 3 times before I got it to set properly.

Being a novice rivet setter, I decided to let it go for tomorrow to finish the other hinge bracket.

Tip, wrap your bucking bar in leather if it has a rough cast finish or it will make you some rework on your brackets surface finish.

To learn solid riveting, I made up some simu-spars from scrap aluminum. I built a total of 6, with the last 2 matching the spar stack ups, to check how the rivet lengths worked out. Oh, foo'd up the original brackest so had to make my own in 1/8 angles.

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

stephen363(at)earthlink.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: Riveting the stab

So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to get an impact rivet gun as well? 

Thanks,

Mark



--

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: Riveting the stab

The AD5-6 rivets come with the tail kit and are for the stabilator hinge

brackets. They give you an option to use a combination of AN-3 bolts over

the doublers with the A5 rivets in the middle. I used -6 in the middle, and

-7s over the doublers.

I bought a cheapy rivet gun set from eBay for $30 something. It is of

marginal utility, but there are only 16 solid rivets in the stab, so felt

that dropping $200 on a nice set not worth the trouble. Bucking bar I think

came from Aircraft Spruce, and was about $12.

I would not recommend trying to use an air hammer as a substitute. It would

be great if you could borrow a nice one from someone for a few days,

practice up then shoot your hinge brackets. I need to review the IPL to see

where else they are used.

Heck, you can use mine when you get to that point. I can post it to you,

when you're done send it back. Might even have some extra rivets.

If you haven't done so already, download and print the IPLs off of the 640

builder site. I like to frequently review what comes next, and try to

predict what materials/tools I'll need. You will find that a good quality 90

degree drill with a 1/4x2" bit (I need to double check that bit length, I'm

not in the shop) helps with match drilling the horn brackets, it's a pretty

close quarters operation. I special ordered mine from Aircraft Tool Supply

in Michigan.

Watch eBay for some good used tool values. I got both my 90 and 45 degree

drills there for less than 1/2 of new prices. Got an assortment of drill

bits too, real cheap, but they are mostly the stubby ones, and won't reach

through the balance weight and brackets.  Big project like this, good tools

help. 

Oh, and thanks for your service, that's a tough place.

C. Smith



--

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: Riveting the stab

Mark, I went through most of the IPLs and there are solid rivets (you

usually have the bolt option) used in many places. Perhaps a good rivet gun

is not such a bad idea.

Solid rivets in stab, aileron bell crank, Fuse stage 2, rear fuse floor sub,

and possibly front torque tube, but the language there is kinda muddy. Maybe

a few more, I did not go through all of the IPLs (6 left).

C. Smith



--

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Riveting the stab

From what I can remember, solid rivets are used on the stab hinge brackets, engine mount brackets, main gear attach brackets, and on a channel reinforcing the wing rear spar attach bracket on the fuselage. I didn't build my aileron bell crank and don't remember what is there. So there aren't many, but they are in critical areas. In addition, while strength wise substituting a bolt would be fine, in some of these areas a bolt is not practical or will just not fit. If you are like me (no riveting experience), you will pound a lot more rivets practicing and getting proficient than you will pound on the airplane. Because they are generally in critical areas, I would recommend either buying a rivet gun and bucking bar (kind of a waste for so few rivets), or finding a set someone will let you borrow. You want those rivets to be as close to perfect as you can get, and not having the right tool will make it that much more difficult.



Steve

super58d

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Riveting the stab

Sorry I've been away from this post for a bit, but we just got home from Iraq. So many things to do!!!! Anyway, thanks for all the tips and info. Which size rivet gun did you guys use, 4x, 3x or 2x? My rudder kit should be here tomorrow and I'll be ordering the horizontal stab kit as soon as it arrives. Would you guys suggest bolts, or driven rivets in those spots? Obviously, I'd be much better at installing bolts, but you think there's a requirement to check the bolts for tightness over time? If so, the rivets might be more pain in the beginning, but less hassle in the long run. 

Mark

_________________
Mark
s/n 094

My Build Site:
http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363/

super58d

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Riveting the stab

Just thought of this, but I didn't just jump into the post uninvited. I was stephen363, then realized I was only a guest. So I'm now super58d and a member of the forum. Hope everyone is moving along on their projects.

Mark

_________________
Mark
s/n 094

My Build Site:
http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363/

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Riveting the stab

Mark, you will want a 3x gun. I bought a "budget" gun off e-bay, and wouldn't recommend it. ATS has a nicely priced economy gun, No 2602A (at)$106, and that is what I'll probably buy later on for the next solid rivet phase.

As far as suggestions, it's what you are comfortable doing. I couldn't comment on structural issues, as I'm not an engineer. CH has given you the option to go either way, so I'm sure he has done the math.

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

super58d

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Riveting the stab

Thanks Craig,

 I have never driven rivets, so I guess I'll just have to practice. I am planning on heading up to the plant this week or next to pick up the rest of the tail kit. I am going to see if I can watch them drive some on an aircraft being worked on, maybe they'll even give me a short block of instruction on how to do it. Thanks for the insight and help.

 Mark

_________________
Mark
s/n 094

My Build Site:
http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363/

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:35 am Post subject: Re: Riveting the stab

If you are an EAA member you can access some very good articles on riveting in the members section. There are also some builders videos in the multimedia section that demonstrate solid riveting. You also might google riveting demonstration or instruction, probably find some more stuff that way too.

One key point is to make sure the buck bar is in firm contact with the rivet before you press the trigger, and stays there until you let off the trigger. Get some scrap and practise, it will come to you.

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

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