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Flying in the rain
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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: JetPilot [orcabonita(at)hotmail.com]

 The rain wont hurt the window at all, or even the airframe. 


	


Thanks Mike and Guy. Of course, I don't intend to fly IMC in the rain. I just wanted to know what was your fly / no-fly decision based on the WX forecast. I know it's better to be down here, wishing we were up there, than the opposite but ... lately it has been too many doubtful forecast that turned out to be gorgious flying weather ... as seen from the ground.

I don't know about you but bright sunshine is not what I like best to fly in. Give me a high overcast ceiling and I am happy! 



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Miichel:



With the amount you are flying I'd say if you were going to have trouble

you'd have it by now.  My preference would be to torque the bolts when the

temperature is around 20C.  I don't know how your seasons are in Northern

Europe but here winter humidity can be very low followed with almost 100% in

the spring for a couple of months...  Then it dries a bit to around 50% for

the summer  (good days) and in the fall it gets wet again...  The running

joke is that we have three months of winter an nine months of "hard

sledding" 



The idea of loosening bolts to check the torque is the recommended

procedure.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

The Ivo I bought for the 582 required the bolts be checked I believe it was

every 50 hr.  While on the phone to the factory I asked why there was no

lockwire holes in the heads of the blots.  I was told that people didn't

like to cut lockwire, so, to make sure the torques were checked they decided

not to use lock wire.  I went along with them only because I was possible

for me to sell the plane with lockwire intact.



Metal props are another quintal of fish!  Torque and lockwire!



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Flying in the rain

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]

 My preference would be to torque the bolts when the

 temperature is around 20C.

Thanks, Noel. 20C is what we have right now, in the middle of the summer. In the winter it goes down to -10C on an average day.
	


I am fortunate to have a hangar with a second floor on the top. This is where the sky divers are living when they are ... not jumping from perfectly flyable aircraft!  So it is pretty well isolated from the heat and the cold. Air temperature and humidity is very little varying. Of course, when I fly somewhere else and the plane is left outside for the night, it is another matter.



 	  Quote: 	
		   The idea of loosening bolts to check the torque is the recommended

 procedure.


	


Okay, I have learnt something today. But, you see, I am then afraid that the following happens: I torque when the weather is cold and dry. Then I torque when the weather is hot and humid, then I torque again when the weather is again cold and dry and, in the process of repeating that, I slowly dig more and more in the wood. Does it make sense to you or am I missing something? You see, the Jabiru propeller is not bolted in the body of the flange itself but in some nuts that are penetrating inside the propeller as hollowed tubes. That is the reason we can't use lockwire because it wouldn't prevent those nuts to spin. We use belleville washers that are supposed to take the slack when it happens.



Another question, when flying somewhere where the plane is left outside for the night, would it make sense to make watertight 'gloves' for the propeller so that they don't get wet from the humidity of the night or an eventual rain fall?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: Flying in the rain

With a wood propeller I'd take what precautions I could to keep the prop as

dry as possible.  Blade covers or "gloves" sound good to me.



Is there a time expiry on that prop?  Say 500 hr or five years like on the

GSC props?  If so yo9u will only check your torque a maximum of around ten

times in your climate ( early summer/early winter ) before the prop is

expired.  One thing about wood is if it gets wet it will soak up some

water...  the less the better.  Wood has the ability to also soak up

vibrations but its life is finite and the clock starts running when the prop

comes off the shaper.



Just imagine... jumping out of perfectly good operating airplanes... not my

cup of tea!



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

I once owned a Cougar (Tailwind replica) that had a Hegy wooden prop with no leading edge protection. I was flying home to Florida from Texas on the maiden flight after the purchase. On a planned stop I had to fly thru rain in order to land at the airport. I noticed it was taking an awful lot of power in the pattern to hold altitude (in fact almost full power). When I parked the aircraft I looked at the prop and found that there was no leading edge at all! It was a flat board about 3/8 inch wide

  The next morning, after thinking about the problem at night, I purchased some 5 minute epoxy, sandpaper and razor blade at the local hardware store. I applied the epoxy to the prop and built a new leading edge, trimming it with the razor and sanding when dry. I then ran the engine to full power, shut down, checked the leading edge to see if it was holding and then I flew home.

   I called Ray Hegy on the phone to see what I should do to solve the problem. He told me to apply a strip of electrical tape over the leading edge of both blades and that should solve the problem. I did this for the two years that I owned the aircraft and it worked fine. I would think that helo blade tape would work even better. (by the way that epoxy repair held up thru the entire time I owned the aircraft)

   I only share this story to show what rain can do to an unprotected wooden propellor.

  

                                                            Dick Maddux

                                                            Fox 4

                                                            Pensacola,Fl



Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

  [quote][b]

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Flying in the rain

Dick....

Just leave it to you to fly your plane with not much more than a 2x4 for a prop!    



I don't have any real issues with flying in rain...as long as I can see through it!  My Prince Prop is wood core with Kevlar coating and leading edge protection.  This past Saturday I got sort of trapped and had to fly about 15 miles in a pouring rain...trying to beat the level 5 thunderstorm that was quickly approaching our airport.  



I carry a short roll of poly tape on the plane.  If I know I will be encountering rain, I will apply equal strips to each blade prior to take off...just for the extra protection.  The rain will pit the epoxy leading edge if flying fast or high RPM.  I usually try to throttle back when possible.  Also...should the tape decide to let go in flight...it makes one heck of a racket!   As long as you know what it is...it's not too bad!



Dick...I have also used the good ol electrical tape before.  It will work...unless it's the really cheap tape!    See Attached picture!



Travis

High Valley Resort002.JPG

Description:

Level 5 thunderstorm centered on my original flight plan.

Filesize:

981.04 KB

Viewed:

485 Time(s)

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Flying in the rain

 	  FlyboyTR wrote: 	
		    This past Saturday I got sort of trapped and had to fly about 15 miles in a pouring rain...trying to beat the level 5 thunderstorm that was quickly approaching our airport.  



	




Travis,



That looks really hairy     What kind of ride did you get flying through the rain and the outer part of that monster storm ?



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Flying in the rain

It wasn't too bad.  I could tell when I hit the outflow because the air temp dropped about 7-10 degrees.  Once that started it got a little rough.  I could still see through the rain.  I don't mind flying close to ugly weather as long as there is no active lightening.  ...and again...I need to see through the rain!  Also having the NexRad weather data "really" helps!  To the right of my position, and just off the screen, was nothing but a wall of level 5 weather that was about 40 miles long...no where to go!



Living on the Gulf Coast and next to Mobile Bay creates some interesting weather...fortunately it is very predictable...most of the time!



Travis

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

I was taught to always check in the tightening direction because  

doing it the other way is not accurate. I do this in stages. First  

at, say 120 (for an eventual goal of 140), then 130, then 140. If the  

wrench clicks (or whatever the indication on your wrench is) at the  

first number you know the torque is at a higher reading, so set the  

wrench to the second number, etc.  When you get near to the target  

number, the wrench will not click until it reaches the target number,  

in this example 140.

Now if you are using a beam-and-pointer style wrench, you can't tell  

(that I know of) if they are too tight without possibly going beyond  

the target number. In this case you have to loosen and re-tighten.  

With the "settable" torque wrench, when a number is achieved, the  

wrench clicks, or otherwise indicates that the target number has been  

reached, and tightening stops, unless you continue to pull, then  

you've gone beyond the target torque reading.

When I worked for Chrysler, we would check torque by placing a socket  

on the nut then painting a fine line on the socket and on the part to  

indicate the rotational relationship for starting the test. Then  

check in the tightening direction until the lines started to separate  

and note the torque reading...this took two persons... if the torque  

was too high, we would record the high reading, loosen and re-torque  

to specs. That was always on metal parts. With wood parts like props,  

it is best to not do this (I think) because the extra crushing that  

can occur through over-torquing is said to crush the wood fibers and  

break open the seal of varnish allowing moisture to enter.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/557+ hrs

On Jul 25, 2008, at 7:56 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> I check in the tightening direction, and if too

> tight I loosen and re-tighten to the torque specs

 This is where I don't follow, Lynn. How do you know they are too  

 tight if you don't try to loosen them first?

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Maybe the same could be said of climbing into a perfectly safe  

airplane (sitting on the ground) and taking it up into the air in the  

first place. "A man's gotta know his limitations..." (Clint Eastwood)

I gotta differ with you on the "loosening for checking torque",  

Noel...I can't recall where I read it or learned it, but it's  

something about the cam and ramp action that is not accurate when  

loosening. I might have learned it wrong, too.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/557+ hrs

do not archive

On Jul 25, 2008, at 10:34 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Just imagine... jumping out of perfectly good operating  

 airplanes... not my

 cup of tea!

 Noel

> The idea of loosening bolts to check the torque is the recommended

> procedure.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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