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2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

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Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

Perhaps those folks currently flying 2 stroke Rotax engines already 

know this, but I didn't .

 As I have read many times before, "Pennzoil 2 Cycle Oil for Air Cooled 

Engines" has been the most reccomended oil for the (water cooled) 582 

Rotax. I attended a seminar by Phillip Lockwood of Lockwood Aviation on 

the basics of maintaining the Rotax 582 while at AirVenture. As many of 

you may know Shell Oil purchased Pennzoil and has stopped making this 

preferred 2 cycle oil. Mr. Lockwood said they purchased the entire stock 

of this oil from Pennzoil and can supply that oil through the end of the 

year. Lockwood Aviation has worked with AeroShell engineers to test 

replacement formulations by test bed running several new 582 engines for 

300 hours then inspecting each engine. He said they found a oil 

formulation that equals the Pennzoil peformance and that will be 

available from AeroShell by early next year.



-- 

Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: Re: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

Rex, Good update on oils.    I will tell you that I use Bombardier oil XPS mineral oil that you can buy in bulk or containers from any Ski Doo and Sea Doo shop.   IT is API -TC rated and works excellent. I just changed to a new 582 as my last one had 500 hours on it and never was apart yet. I took a few pics of the piston and it looks great if you want to see let me know . 



I am planning on changing over to Shell Advance oil which is API-TC rated as well as most of my local guys already have.   I have used this in other planes for over 25 years now along with Castrol Super 2 stroke oil which again is API-TC rated.   Pennzoil is hard to get in Canada.  My Rotaxes have worked flawless and I contribute alot of that to the use of these oils.  



Stay away from oils not rated API-TC   -- eg - TCW3  ( outboard oil)

and stay away from synthetic oils.blends unless you are running them 3 or more times per week. - EVERY WEEK !!    I do sell cranks but I rather see the right oil used and your crank last longer.



Dave

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Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

Dave,

 Thanks. It's good to have choices and your empirical information is 

always appreciated, at least by me. This oil subjct is so confused at 

times it's difficult to get useful input.  Lockwood appears to be a 

reliable source and I would say people won't go wrong by following their 

advice, but they are a business and want to grow. I haven't asked, but 

they might only reccomend oils that they sell because of their 

experience and testing that proves the performance. Would they also 

reccomend Bombardier labled products? Probably since Bombardier is the 

parent company of Rotax, right? There seems to be more choices for a 

great lubricant for each application one could ask about and I would 

like to ferret out the unbiased truth. I'm just a novice at this oil game.



-- 

Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs



dave wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Rex, Good update on oils.    I will tell you that I use Bombardier oil XPS mineral oil that you can buy in bulk or containers from any Ski Doo and Sea Doo shop.   IT is API -TC rated and works excellent. I just changed to a new 582 as my last one had 500 hours on it and never was apart yet. I took a few pics of the piston and it looks great if you want to see let me know . 



I am planning on changing over to Shell Advance oil which is API-TC rated as well as most of my local guys already have.   I have used this in other planes for over 25 years now along with Castrol Super 2 stroke oil which again is API-TC rated.   Pennzoil is hard to get in Canada.  My Rotaxes have worked flawless and I contribute alot of that to the use of these oils.  



Stay away from oils not rated API-TC   -- eg - TCW3  ( outboard oil)

and stay away from synthetic oils.blends unless you are running them 3 or more times per week. - EVERY WEEK !!    I do sell cranks but I rather see the right oil used and your crank last longer.



Dave



--------

Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

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_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

At 02:48 AM 8/15/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I am planning on changing over to Shell Advance oil which is API-TC 

rated as well as most of my local guys already have.


	


Dave,

         Is this the new Shell oil Rex was talking about?

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

Funny thing about oil... I think some people have more loyalty to the oil

the use in their 582 than they do to their wives ... some are even more

willing to change wives than oil.



All that aside I tend to go by the Bombardier operators manual...  stick

with API-TC spec.  I assume that the Bombardier XPS mineral oil meets their

own specifications....  and bought in bulk it is affordable.  As Dave has

said finding Penz two-stroke air cooled north of 49,40' is next to

impossible.

Noel Loveys

AME Intern, RPP

Kitfox III-A, 

Still waiting on parts for 912 install

Aerocet 1100 floats

--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

Sadly when I aquired my Model 2 I got a case and a half of the Pennzoil 

which was already 4 years old. Lockwood said it has a shelf life of 

about 3 years and if unopened plastic bottles show sucked in sides the 

oil has degraded and should not be used. He said it should be recycled. 

Hopefully this information may save someone damage to their engine or worse.



-- 

Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs



Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Funny thing about oil... I think some people have more loyalty to the oil

the use in their 582 than they do to their wives ... some are even more

willing to change wives than oil.



All that aside I tend to go by the Bombardier operators manual...  stick

with API-TC spec.  I assume that the Bombardier XPS mineral oil meets their

own specifications....  and bought in bulk it is affordable.  As Dave has

said finding Penz two-stroke air cooled north of 49,40' is next to

impossible.

Noel Loveys

AME Intern, RPP

Kitfox III-A, 

Still waiting on parts for 912 install

Aerocet 1100 floats

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

Guy,

 I don't think so. Lockwood said it will be a new oil labeled as 

Aeroshell and would not be available before January 2009. My impressions 

are there are minimum specs for API-TC ratings and the new Aeroshell 

product will exceed those specs. and perform as well as the discontinued 

Pennzoil for Air Cooled Engines. Does that mean you should only use the 

best? To use one of my ground school instructors favorite answers: "It 

depends."  Probably the any API-TC rated oil will provide the minimum 

protection needed for your 582 if you follow the manufacturers service 

schedule. If you exceed the recommended hours as many do, it might be in 

your interest to use the best performance lubricants.

-- 

Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs

Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 02:48 AM 8/15/2008, you wrote:

> I am planning on changing over to Shell Advance oil which is API-TC 

> rated as well as most of my local guys already have.

 Dave,

         Is this the new Shell oil Rex was talking about?

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

mscotter

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

Forgive the basic question here, but I am just not that 

Familiar with aircraft 2-strokes. What exactly is it that happens to crankshafts?  Is it just corrosion?

-Mark Scott

---

_________________
Mark Scott
Winston-Salem, NC

Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

I'll try.

 The ball bearings and needle bearings used can rust pretty fast if not 

always coated with enough protective lubricant. Since the these bearings 

are lubed with a oil mixed within the gas mist in the crankcase it is 

critical that the oil to gas mixture be correct when the engine is 

running. Inadequate lubricant is never a good thing in an engine and the 

needles and balls in these bearings are not plated against corrosion 

(plating is not reliable). A tiny amount of rust will destroy the 

bearings in a short time if for instance the engine has been stored over 

the winter improperly. These are the types of warnings I've read and 

been told about, but I've had old 2 stroke motorcycles that had been 

sitting outside for years and and got them running again with nothing 

more than cleaning the fuel system and they never destroyed their crank 

brearings so who knows. Of course My flight time and altitude on a bike 

is very limited.  

 

 Premixed fuel with synthetic oils may not stay dispersed in fuel if the 

fuel mix sits for several days. You then risk the possible problem of 

inadequate lubricant in the fuel mist if you don't shake the fuel mix 

adequately before flight.



 Any corrections?



-- 

Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs



mscotter(at)comcast.net wrote:



[quote]



Forgive the basic question here, but I am just not that 

Familiar with aircraft 2-strokes. What exactly is it that happens to crankshafts?  Is it just corrosion?

-Mark Scott

---

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update

The main bearings are roller bearings and the tiniest bit of rust or

corrosion on them can cause the full effect of Murphy's law to descend on

you.  Mineral oil will protect the bearings while you are on the ground.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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