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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: Brake lines

John H.,

 

  The brake lines furnished to me for free from Bonaco, Inc were their

offering, not my choice.  He asked for dimensions and these were what I got.  

I agree these would be more appropriate to put on my GlaStar (when I get back

to working on it someday).

 

  The truth is I intended to use plastic tubing, like you have, until this offer came about.

 

  I have looked for the 1/4" plastic tubing, but I'm not sure what I have found is 

appropriate for brake lines.  Icemaker water line just doesn't sound right!!!!

 

  Does anyone know where to get the CORRECT 1/4" plastic tubing, that would work well

for brake lines on Matco calipers?  (Yes, I need 1/4", that's the size of my fittings).

 

Mike Welch

MkIII

 

Still, it was a hellava nice present for free.

 

 

  

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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Brake lines

At 03:34 PM 12/16/2008, Mike Welch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

   I have looked for the 1/4" plastic tubing, but I'm not sure what I have 

 found is

appropriate for brake lines.  Icemaker water line just doesn't sound right!!!!



   Does anyone know where to get the CORRECT 1/4" plastic tubing, that 

 would work well

for brake lines on Matco calipers?  (Yes, I need 1/4", that's the size of 

my fittings).


	


No, icemaker tubing is usually polyethylene.  You want the hard nylon 

tubing, which is rated for much higher pressure... I got mine from 

McMaster-Carr.  You need to know the inside diameter too; they have it in 

several different ID's.



-Dana

--

  "The difference between death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every

time Congress meets." -- Will Rogers

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Brake lines

 	  Quote: 	
		   No, icemaker tubing is usually polyethylene. You want the hard nylon 

 tubing, which is rated for much higher pressure... I got mine from 

 McMaster-Carr. You need to know the inside diameter too; they have it in 

 several different ID's.

 

 -Dana


	


  

 

Dana,

 

  Yeah, I know icemaker tubing wouldn't do.  Polyethylene and polyurethane tubing

are not strong enough for the job.  I was being facetious.  

  I have found a few sources that do sell the high pressure nylon tubing.  Thanks

for the McMaster-Carr tip.  I'll check with them.

 

Mike Welch

MkIII

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ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: Brake lines

Aircraft Spruce sells the stuff you need, line & connectors.  You are 

aware that most aircraft brake assembles use red transmission fluid 

not the very corrosive clear hydraulic fluid like used in 

automobiles.  They package cans labeled for aircraft use.

jerb

At 06:31 PM 12/16/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

At 03:34 PM 12/16/2008, Mike Welch wrote:

>

>   I have looked for the 1/4" plastic tubing, but I'm not sure what 

> I have found is

>appropriate for brake lines.  Icemaker water line just doesn't 

>sound right!!!!

>

>   Does anyone know where to get the CORRECT 1/4" plastic tubing, 

> that would work well

>for brake lines on Matco calipers?  (Yes, I need 1/4", that's the 

>size of my fittings).

No, icemaker tubing is usually polyethylene.  You want the hard 

nylon tubing, which is rated for much higher pressure... I got mine 

from McMaster-Carr.  You need to know the inside diameter too; they 

have it in several different ID's.

-Dana

--

  "The difference between death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every

time Congress meets." -- Will Rogers

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Brake lines

 	  Quote: 	
		   Aircraft Spruce sells the stuff you need, line & connectors. You are 

 aware that most aircraft brake assembles use red transmission fluid 

 not the very corrosive clear hydraulic fluid like used in 

 automobiles. They package cans labeled for aircraft use.

 jerb


	


Thanks Jerb for the Aircraft Spruce reference.  I looked and looked for it there, 

but could never seem to come up with it. I found it, thanks. 

  Yes, I'm very much aware of the differences in brake fluid between an airplane

and a car.  I still have some of my red brake fluid left over from topping off my 

Cessna's brakes.

 

Mike Welch

MkIII

 

 

 

 

 

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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: Brake lines

Mike, You'll need to put a UV shield over it where it's out in the light and it's good for 20 years.



Rick



On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)>

  

 

 John H.,

 

   The brake lines furnished to me for free from Bonaco, Inc were their

 offering, not my choice.  He asked for dimensions and these were what I got.

 I agree these would be more appropriate to put on my GlaStar (when I get back

 to working on it someday).

 

   The truth is I intended to use plastic tubing, like you have, until this offer came about.

 

   I have looked for the 1/4" plastic tubing, but I'm not sure what I have found is

 appropriate for brake lines.  Icemaker water line just doesn't sound right!!!!

 

   Does anyone know where to get the CORRECT 1/4" plastic tubing, that would work well

 for brake lines on Matco calipers?  (Yes, I need 1/4", that's the size of my fittings).

 

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

 

 Still, it was a hellava nice present for free.

 

 

 

 _________________________________________________________________

 Suspicious message? There's an alert for that.

 http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad2_122008

 

 

 

 

 [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: Brake lines

Rick:

  

 If you are referring to the clear plastic brake  line like I am using, mine has no UV shield and it is pushing 18 years  service.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]   -----  

Mike, You'll need to put a UV    shield over it where it's out in the light and it's good for 20 years.   



   Rick

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: Brake lines

Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil it is  MIL-H-5606 A not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color,  some brake systems have seals that cannot take to oil  like ATF it will  swell the seals up and make them fail 

 Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation  with the brake system you have 

 do not archive

 Ellery

  In a message dated 12/16/2008 9:31:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ulflyer(at)verizon.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>

Aircraft    Spruce sells the stuff you need, line & connectors.  You are    

aware that most aircraft brake assembles use red transmission fluid    

not the very corrosive clear hydraulic fluid like used in    

automobiles.  They package cans labeled for aircraft    use.

jerb

At 06:31 PM 12/16/2008, you    wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague    <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>

At 03:34 PM 12/16/2008, Mike    Welch wrote:

>

>   I have looked for the 1/4"    plastic tubing, but I'm not sure what 

> I have found    is

>appropriate for brake lines.  Icemaker water line just    doesn't 

>sound right!!!!

>

>   Does    anyone know where to get the CORRECT 1/4" plastic tubing, 

> that    would work well

>for brake lines on Matco calipers?  (Yes, I    need 1/4", that's the 

>size of my fittings).

No,    icemaker tubing is usually polyethylene.  You want the hard 

nylon    tubing, which is rated for much higher pressure... I got mine 

from    McMaster-Carr.  You need to know the inside diameter too; they    

have it in several different    ID's.

-Dana

--

  "The difference between    death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every

time Congress meets."    -- Will  sp;             (And Get Some AWESOME FREE   find  you for                          -Matt Dralle,    List    es  y                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  =========================

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mai=emlcntaolcom00000025">Try it now.

  [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: Brake lines

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil it is MIL-H-5606 

do not archive
	


Ellery>>>

 

Ellery,

 

  Important point, and you are correct.  Just because it's red, doesn't mean it is

okay to use as aircraft brake fluid.  As I stated, though, I do have the correct brake fluid

for certified aircraft.  Expensive stuff...(always is!!)

  But, your best advice of all is to call the manufacturer and ask what they recommend.

I have Matco hydraulic brakes and cylinders, and will call them tomorrow.  Thanks.

 

Mike Welch

MkIII

_________________________________________________________________

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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Brake lines

At 05:42 PM 12/17/2008, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil it is MIL-H-5606 A not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color, some brake systems have seals that cannot take to oil  like ATF it will swell the seals up and make them fail 

 Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation with the brake system you have 	


 Part of the confusion may be from the fact that some non certified aircraft brakes (like the Free Bird brakes on my UltraStar) do indeed specify Dexron II or III automatic transmission fluid, which is also red.  ATF must also be compatible with the Hegar master cylinders that control the brakes on my plane, since I've had no trouble.  I can't speak for other types.



 -Dana 

 --

  Clothes make the man.  Naked people have little or no influence on society.    [quote][b]

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: Brake lines

 I know that, that is why i said this  

  

 In a message dated 12/17/2008 7:38:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  d-m-hague(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation with the    brake system you have 	
  

 do not archive

 Ellery



One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail,40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025">Try it now.

  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Brake lines

Part of the confusion may be from the  fact that some non certified aircraft brakes (like the Free Bird brakes on my  UltraStar) do indeed specify Dexron II or III automatic transmission fluid,  which is also red.  ATF must also be compatible with the Hegar master  cylinders that control the brakes on my plane, since I've had no trouble.   I can't speak for other types.



-Dana 

 

  

 Dana:

  

 I have always used ATF in Hegar and Matco  brakes.  However, recently I saw a spec sheet that called for aviation red  fluid for Matco.  I have never had a problem with the ATF, but that is what  both systems called for when I installed them some time ago.

  

 john h

 mkIII

   [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: Brake lines

At 09:34 PM 12/17/2008, John Hauck wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		    

 I have always used ATF in Hegar and Matco brakes.  However, recently I saw a spec sheet that called for aviation red fluid for Matco.  I have never had a problem with the ATF, but that is what both systems called for when I installed them some time ago. 	


 Both MIL-H-5606 aviation hydraulic fluid and Dexron III ATF are petroleum based fluids (the MSDS's list them as "highly refined oils" with additives).  Both are compatible with Buna-N seals (the most common generic seal material), although there may be other reasons not to use one or the other.  However, there are other types of ATF (ATF+4, Ford Type F, and others) that may have a different base, I don't know.  OTOH, DOT3 and DOT4 automotive brake fluids are a mixture of various glycols, which don't like Buna but are compatible with EPDM rubber seals (but EPDM doesn't like petroleum oils), while DOT5 brake fluid is a silicone base fluid (I once owned a surplus postal Jeep that used DOT5).  Older British cars used a mineral based brake fluid and you could screw them up by using DOT3.



 -Dana



 

 --

  The greatest threat to western civilization are people whose fear of other people's liberty exceeds the love of their own.    [quote][b]

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: Brake lines

<Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED  

 

  

< Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil … not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color,  Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation  with the brake system you have. Ellery >>  

   

Ellery, and Kolb Friends –  

   

Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) recommends automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake systems.  I know this because I called them and asked this very question.  Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, including mine.  Being able to use ATF makes it convenient.  

   

Dennis Kirby  

Cedar Crest, NM  

Do not archive  

   

      

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED   

 

  [quote][b]

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: Brake lines

the only trouble in using the "right Stuff" ; is ..that it can be and maybe, usually is,  a  generic product with "for aircraft use" written on it at 10 times the price....!! ...   frugal   Herb 



 At 01:38 PM 12/22/2008, you wrote:

 [quote]<Classification: UNCLASSIFIED 



 

 < Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil … not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color,  Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation  with the brake system you have. Ellery >>

  

 Ellery, and Kolb Friends –

  

 Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) recommends automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake systems.  I know this because I called them and asked this very question.  Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, including mine.  Being able to use ATF makes it convenient.

  

 Dennis Kirby

 Cedar Crest, NM

 Do not archive

  



 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED 

 



 

 [b]

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: Brake lines

Considering this thread, I wondered why cars use glycol-based fluid instead of a straight mineral oil.It must have to do with early seal rubber longevity.  The boiling point  difference between ATF and glycol can't be large.

Mineral would seem to be superior if only for the lack of hygroscopic quality.

BTW, I changed the seals in my matco wheel cylinders so I could use car fluid in them and my dune buggy master cylinder.

BB



On 22, Dec 2008, at 3:07 PM, herb wrote:

[quote] 

 the only trouble in using the "right Stuff" ; is ..that it can be and maybe, usually is,  a  generic product with "for aircraft use" written on it at 10 times the price....!! ....   frugal   Herb 



 At 01:38 PM 12/22/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  <Classification: UNCLASSIFIED 



 

 < Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil … not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color,  Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation  with the brake system you have. Ellery >>

  

 Ellery, and Kolb Friends –

  

 Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) recommends automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake systems.  I know this because I called them and asked this very question.  Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, including mine.  Being able to use ATF makes it convenient.

  

 Dennis Kirby

 Cedar Crest, NM

 Do not archive

  



 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED 

 



 

 

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

	
[b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Brake lines

At 03:31 PM 12/22/2008, robert bean wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Considering this thread, I wondered why cars use glycol-based fluid 

instead of a straight mineral oil.

It must have to do with early seal rubber longevity.  The boiling 

point  difference between ATF and glycol can't be large.

Mineral would seem to be superior if only for the lack of hygroscopic quality.


	


I don't know for sure, but perhaps for flammability issues?  Oil could burn 

if it springs a leak on hot brake components?  Pretty sure glycol isn't 

flammable.



-Dana

--

  To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Brake lines

Dennis I know that some Brake systems  use ATF I  was just pointing out that ATF and aircraft brake fluid 5606-A are both Red in  color but not The same liquid  Make sure you all use the correct Fluid  for your system  

  

 Ellery in Maine

 do not archive

  

  

  In a message dated 12/22/2008 3:08:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  herbgh(at)nctc.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

the    only trouble in using the "right Stuff" ; is ..that it can be and maybe,    usually is,  a  generic product with "for aircraft use" written on    it at 10 times the price....!! ....   frugal   Herb    



At 01:38 PM 12/22/2008, you wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  <Classification:      UNCLASSIFIED 

< Aircraft Brake fluid is not      transmission oil â€¦ not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red      in color,  Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation       with the brake system you have. Ellery >>

 

Ellery, and      Kolb Friends â€“

 

Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah)      recommends automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake      systems.  I know this because I called them and asked this very      question.  Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, including mine.       Being able to use ATF makes it convenient.

 

Dennis      Kirby

Cedar Crest, NM

Do not archive

 



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED    







://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

	
	




One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Md=emlcntaolcom00000025">Try it now.

  [quote][b]

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: Brake lines

Interesting that they tell you that on the phone…..   and still the document that come with the master cylindars for matco say “This assembly requires  MIL-H-5606 red aircraft fluid”  

   

Maybe the post that says that the BUNA N orings tolerate either the MIL or the ATF  equally well.  

   

Boyd   

MKIIIC  

Utah  

“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””’’  

   

< Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil … not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color,  Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation  with the brake system you have. Ellery >>  

   

Ellery, and Kolb Friends –  

   

Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) recommends automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake systems.  I know this because I called them and asked this very question.  Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, including mine.  Being able to use ATF makes it convenient.  

   

Dennis Kirby  

Cedar Crest, NM  

Do not archive  

   

       [quote][b]

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: Brake lines

Sorry I hit send with only ½ a thought there….     

   

Maybe the post a week or so ago, that said that the BUNA N o rings tolerate either the MIL H 5606 or the ATF  equally well,        has a lot of merit.  

   

   

Interesting that they tell you that on the phone…..   and still the document that come with the master cylinders for Matco say “This assembly requires  MIL-H-5606 red aircraft fluid”  

   

Maybe the post that says that the BUNA N o rings tolerate either the MIL or the ATF  equally well.  

   

Boyd   

MKIIIC  

Utah  

“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””’’  

   

< Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil … not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color,  Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation  with the brake system you have. Ellery >>  

   

Ellery, and Kolb Friends –  

   

Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) recommends automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake systems.  I know this because I called them and asked this very question.  Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, including mine.  Being able to use ATF makes it convenient.  

   

Dennis Kirby  

Cedar Crest, NM  

Do not archive  

   

   

       [quote][b]

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