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Master Switch

 
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hammer408(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

Bob:

I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my
master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do have a
question:

I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly:

#2 - to battery contactor
#5 - to 5 Amp CB
#1 - to ground
#4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator

Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"...

Thanks

Henry
---


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

At 05:20 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote:
Quote:

<hammer408(at)comcast.net>

Bob:

I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my
master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do have a
question:

I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly:

#2 - to battery contactor
#5 - to 5 Amp CB
#1 - to ground
#4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator

Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"...

That's what the diagrams show. It should work.
Bob . . .

----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------


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hammer408(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

Bob:

I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears
to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be
with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY
ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR.

If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to
#6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip
the switch to keyway down?

Sorry for my confusion ?

Henry

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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:55 pm    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played
with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the
toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes
through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of
the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except
possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch.

(Slide switches are different animals, obviously.)

Charlie

Henry Trzeciakowski wrote:
[quote] Bob:

I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears
to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be
with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY
ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR.

If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to
#6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip
the switch to keyway down?

Sorry for my confusion ?

Henry

---


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jaybannist(at)cs.com
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up. When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward. I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down. All worked correctly after that.

Jay in Dallas





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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

What is the “keyway” of a switch?

Carlos



From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com
Sent: terça-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:07
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch


I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up. When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward. I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down. All worked correctly after that.

Jay in Dallas





-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 3:54 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Master Switch
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)> 

I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch.

(Slide switches are different animals, obviously.)

Charlie

Henry Trzeciakowski wrote:
> Bob:
>
> I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears
> to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be
> with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY
> ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR.
>
> If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to
> #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip
> the switch to keyway down?
>
> Sorry for my confusion ?
>
> Henry
>
> ---


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jaybannist(at)cs.com
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

There is a groove in the threaded barrel of the switch. That groove is the keyway.

Jay in Dallas





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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

Thanks Jay
Non-native English speaker problem solved!

Carlos in Portugal

P.S. – I normally install all my DT toggle switches with the keyway facing down


From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com
Sent: terça-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:34
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch


There is a groove in the threaded barrel of the switch. That groove is the keyway.

Jay in Dallas





-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 4:23 pm
Subject: RE: Re: Master Switch
What is the “keyway” of a switch?



Carlos






From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com ([email]owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com?[/email])] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com (jaybannist(at)cs.com)
Sent: terça-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:07
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch




I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up. When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward. I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down. All worked correctly after that.

Jay in Dallas








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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:42 am    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

At 04:06 PM 12/16/2008, you wrote:
Quote:
I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up. When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward. I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down. All worked correctly after that.

Jay in Dallas

I'm not aware of any industry-wide conventions for keyway
orientation on switches. The only time it makes a difference
is when you have special features in a switch that are
orientation dependent. For example, and on-off-(on) switch
is spring-loaded from one end of travel to center. If you
want the spring loaded-position to be lower-most in the
installation, then that drives how the switch is installed
irrespective of keyway orientation.

Similarly, if you have a switch with terminal numbers molded
into the rear housing, then wiring in accordance with a diagram
that cites terminal numbers will work correctly only if
keyway orientation for that particular switch is observed.

I have switches in my junkbox with no keyway.

And of course, this would include rocker switches. These
can generally be mounted either orientation but the
switch may not function as anticipated if there are
non-symmetrical features . . . typically terminal
numbering or special tabs like . . .

http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Split_Rocker_Rear.jpg


The keyway is added to many switches to facilitate robust
mounting.

http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Miniature_Toggle_w-Full_Size_Handle.jpg

The keyway is engaged by the often supplied tab-washer
to prevent the switch body from rotating on the mounting
due to torque applied by wires to the back or operator
from the front.



Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net) >

I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down.

Yes. Here's a couple of shots that illustrate Charlie's
explanation.

http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Carling_Cutaway.jpg

http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Toggle_Switch_with_Mold-Captured_Terminals.jpg

Quote:
Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch.

http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/On-Off_Plate.jpg


Henry Trzeciakowski wrote:
> Bob:
>
> I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears
> to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be
> with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY
> ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR.
>
> If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to
> #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip
> the switch to keyway down?
>
> Sorry for my confusion ?

You originally cited a 2TL series switch which
I presume is a Honeywell-Microswitch product. I've
illustrated the Miocroswitch convention for terminal
numbering at . . .

http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Progressive-Xfr_Split-Rocker_Switches.pdf

Now, as it turns out, the folks at Carling seem to
have adopted the Honeywell-Microswitch convention
for terminal numbers a couple of years ago. Bottom
line is that you MIGHT need to deduce how YOUR
particular switch functions. Quite often, you can
glean operational information from the manufacturer's
catalogs. I have a sampling of such documents on
the website at . . .

http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data.html

So for individual who read this posting now or in
the future, be aware that not all switches with
interchangeable functionality are labeled or keyed
the same way. So if the thing doesn't work the way
you want it to, the simplest solution is to get out
the ohmmeter and figure it out.

Bob . . .



[quote][b]


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cjensen(at)dts9000.com
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

The reason for the keyway being up is environmental. When the keyway is up, the pins are above the key channel, so when dirt, grime and moisture gets into the key slot, it lays in the channel instead of contaminating the pin which have close clearances. If the pins were on the bottom, all the crud getting into the key slot would fall into the pins and cause fouling and poorly working pins.

Chuck Jensen

[quote] --


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:20 am    Post subject: Master Switch Reply with quote

At 08:16 AM 12/17/2008, you wrote:
Quote:
The reason for the keyway being up is environmental. When the keyway is up, the pins are above the key channel, so when dirt, grime and moisture gets into the key slot, it lays in the channel instead of contaminating the pin which have close clearances. If the pins were on the bottom, all the crud getting into the key slot would fall into the pins and cause fouling and poorly working pins.

Chuck Jensen

I think you're referring to the cylinders in locks. We're
discussing the keyway on the mounting bushing of a toggle
switch . . .

http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Miniature_Toggle_w-Full_Size_Handle.jpg


Bob . . .

----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------) [quote][b]


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Eric M. Jones



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Master Switch Reply with quote

I have always been a proponent of the keyway-down school of thought. The reason being, that a small splash of water or rain would stay in the keyway, or drain inward perhaps, if the keyway were facing up. (I also presume toggle up is ON and down is OFF.) There must be a patent on the keyway in the late 1800's or some mil-spec but I can't find it.

NKK sells little ON/OFF switch plates for use with keyed bushings and they seem to agree with my described system. I have seen many of these little plates and they mostly seem to agree. But I am sure you can get the opposite kind, too.

On a related subject. The little "face" on US 120 VAC outlets: By NEC code, the little "face" is oriented so that U-ground connection is the last to exit the socket when a power cord is pulled out of it. This is judged by height usually (but not always). The high sockets have the U-ground "nose" down whilst low mounted sockets have the U-ground "nose" up.


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