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choke or primer
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beauford



Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 127
Location: Brandon, FL

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: choke or primer Reply with quote

Sister Cristal:

I initially discovered what was going on from the Lockwood mechanics... I
have never seen a discussion of this problem
in written form anyplace... The mechanics I talked to were certainly
familiar with it...

Per your question... Reference the 2009 CPS catalog, page 143, pertaining to
the Bung...er...Bing 36 mm...

I assume from your reference to the cables that you are using the
cable configuration to work your enrichment/choke... In that case the part
is Bing "starting piston" # 963-740.
If you were using the lever type choke, it is called Bing "choke piston"
part # 268-847.

Hope this helps...

worth what ye paid fer it...

beauford of Brandon
FF -076
Brandon, FL
---


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:32 am    Post subject: choke or primer Reply with quote

Cristal, Get yourself a free copy of the Rotax Illustrated Parts Catalog at:

http://www.rotax-owner.com/
Click on support, find engine manuals. While it won't necessarily give you a procedure, the break down drawing should give you a good idea about how it all goes together. You'll certainly get all the current part numbers, at least.


Rick

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:16 AM, cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)>


> [quote="beauford"]On the Bing enrichment circuit:
>
> The small enrichment piston which is raised by either a lever on the carb, or by a cable to a remote
> "choke" lever has a small nitrile rubber insert set in a cavity in the base. The rubber insert will gradually
> deteriorate and deform with age, thereby allowing additional (excessive) fuel to leak through the enrichment circuit and dump into the engine.
>
> This occurs gradually over many hours and may not be detected until excessive carbon shows up in the top end
> of the engine, possibly causing stuck rings and potentially serious problems.
>
> Some of you Listers may recall Beauford's fun with this problem in the Nazi 447 a few years back... In my ignorance about what was happening, I ended up chasing back and forth with metering rod adjustments, jetting changes,
> fouled plugs, etc.... I had repeatedly checked the enrichment piston's function, verifying that it was bottoming into the seat properly...the problem was that the rubber insert had receded up into the base of the thing and I did not notice it. because it looked fine...the rubber was not obviously cracked or split.
>
> Long story, short... The guys over at Lockwood took one look and immediately diagnosed the problem...said that they had seen a number of Rotax 2-strokes trashed with this... and that the Bing enrichment piston ought to be replacd every 2 years or so as a matter of routine maintenance....especially with PREMIXED fuel which attacked the nitrile faster than straight gas... One can only wonder what the ethanol is doing to these things. As I recall, the part cost under $10.... which was certainly substantially less than the two new pistons I had to buy after the carbon had seized the rings...
>
> I now keep an extra enrichment piston on hand...
>
> ...worth what ye paid fer it...
>
> beauford
> FF-076
> Brandon, FL
>
>
>
>
> ---


Beauford,
Is there a website or article in the CPS catalogue that talks about replacing the parts you are talking about (or did you just get the information by word of mouth from Lockwood)? I would like to read more about it. Can you look at your old receipts and tell me what part(s) I would need to order?

All,
We got my choke cables working correctly now. The choke wasn't stuck on...it was never opened. There was a washer (that prevented the cable housing from sliding into the metal tube) that hadn't been replaced when we put everything back together. (But this doesn't help me solve the mystery of the excessive smoking when we first started it up...but that could be another thread on the forum.)

Thanks for everyone's input and advice.

--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI




Read this topic online here:

[url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 19590#219590]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 19590#219590[/url]










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Thom Riddle



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: choke or primer Reply with quote

Why Choke (enricher) OR Primer? Why not both, each performing a separate function?

When I bought my FS1 w/447, it was very hard starting. It had only the enricher circuit, which for reasons I'm still not sure of, was not much help in getting it started when cold. It would take 6-8 pulls before it would get rich enough to fire. Yes, it has an electric fuel pump used to make sure there is fuel in the float chambers before attempting a start.

My hard starting fix was to install a squeeze bulb primer teed off the main fuel supply line and plumbed to the nipple (designed for this purpose) just downstream of the butterfly valve. To start I give the bulb one squeeze to give the carb throat a little raw fuel, shut off the valve to this branch of the line and start it with a single pull of the rope. The squeeze bulb primer is used only for a starting squirt and then isolated from the rest of the fuel system during running. The shut-off valve is important because this branch is located on the suction side of the mechanical pump. Without the shut-off valve, the mechanical pump could draw air thru this branch from the carburetor if the check valve in the squeeze bulb failed.

Once started, the enricher can be shut down as the engine warms up. It is simpler than it sounds when I read this description and works perfectly.


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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)



Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:05 am    Post subject: choke or primer Reply with quote

> Why Choke (enricher) OR Primer? Why not both, each performing a separate
function?
>
Quote:
--------
Thom Riddle


Thom:

I've had excellent results with enrichers on two and four stroke Rotax
engines.

If the engine and carb is set up correctly, and the enricher circuit is in
good shape, it'll fire right up in many different climatic conditions. If
not, then there is something wrong with enricher system and/or engine.

johnh
mkIII


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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
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Titus, Alabama
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Thom Riddle



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: choke or primer Reply with quote

I'm sure you are right, John. I didn't take the carb apart to check out the enricher. Instead I did what I said, which is something I had intended to do anyway.

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)



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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: choke or primer Reply with quote

> I'm sure you are right, John. I didn't take the carb apart to check out
the enricher. Instead I did what I said, which is something I had intended
to do anyway.
Quote:

--------
Thom Riddle


Thom:

I'm sorry. I misunderstood your msg. Thought you put the primer on because
you couldn't get your 447 to start with the enricher.

"When I bought my FS1 w/447, it was very hard starting. It had only the
enricher circuit, which for reasons I'm still not sure of, was not much help
in getting it started when cold. It would take 6-8 pulls before it would get
rich enough to fire. Yes, it has an electric fuel pump used to make sure
there is fuel in the float chambers before attempting a start."

I was trying to emphasize enrichers work if set up and operated correctly.

john h
mkIII


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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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