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canopy top smoothing/priming

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pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

From: pascal (pascalreid(at)msn.com) 

 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:57 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

 Looking for a good way to smooth (aka fill pin holes) on the  canopy top as well as prime. I know there is Smooth Prime but that is a  "smoother" than requires another coat of actual primer. Many reasons I am trying  to avoid doing the multiple layers.

 Also any suggestions for how I should go about doing the  canopy top. I gather based on my review of the top that laying a filler primer  wont get it all, is the idea to do a coat of .5/.5 acetone/epoxy with some  balloons before spraying filler needed? anything else I should be  considering?

 Thanks!

 Pascal

   [quote][b]

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: Re: canopy top smoothing/priming

Pascal,



On the recommendation of a buddy who does composite work full-time, I used PPG acrylic urethane primer K36 with K201 catalyst. Applied with a 3" Shur-line roller( about $1.50 ea from Home Depot; get several). Apply the first coat with moderate pressure to work the primer into the pin holes. By the time you finish the first coat you can go back to your starting point and apply another coat. You want 3-4 coats total. The roller will start to disintegrate and leave little pieces of foam in the primer, which is no problem as you will be sanding almost all of the primer off. Let the primer cure for 2-3 days, depending on your shop temperature. Block sand to remove orange peel, bits of roller foam, etc. Spray a final coat of primer, and you are done. I think I wound up with 6 pin holes that had to be filled individually. I also used this method on all other composite pieces.



Jim Berry

40482

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

Pascal  

   

There is a product that is designed for just that I will try and look it up and send it to you .  It is not a filler primer but a filler then you pay the primer on top of that.  

     

John G. Cumins  

President  

   

JC'S Interactive Systems  

2499 B1 Martin Rd  

Fairfield Ca 94533  

707-425-7100  

707-425-7576 Fax  

   

Your Total Technology Solution Provider  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal

 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:58 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: canopy top smoothing/priming  

  

     

   

      

   

      

From: pascal (pascalreid(at)msn.com)   

    

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:57 AM  

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Subject: canopy top smoothing/priming  

  

  

    

   

    

Looking for a good way to smooth (aka fill pin holes) on the canopy top as well as prime. I know there is Smooth Prime but that is a "smoother" than requires another coat of actual primer. Many reasons I am trying to avoid doing the multiple layers.  

    

Also any suggestions for how I should go about doing the canopy top. I gather based on my review of the top that laying a filler primer wont get it all, is the idea to do a coat of .5/.5 acetone/epoxy with some balloons before spraying filler needed? anything else I should be considering?  

    

Thanks!  

    

   

    

Pascal  

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       [quote][b]

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

Pascal,  

   

  You left out a critical part of the name below.  It’s actually called UV Smooth Prime and also acts as a UV blocker for composite parts which is critical.  UV WILL breakdown our composites eventually making them brittle.  Whatever you use make sure it has a UV inhibitor in it or you put it on thick enough to have enough solids to do the job.  

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal

 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:58 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: canopy top smoothing/priming  

  

  

     

   

      

   

      

From: pascal (pascalreid(at)msn.com)   

    

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:57 AM  

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Subject: canopy top smoothing/priming  

  

  

    

   

    

Looking for a good way to smooth (aka fill pin holes) on the canopy top as well as prime. I know there is Smooth Prime but that is a "smoother" than requires another coat of actual primer. Many reasons I am trying to avoid doing the multiple layers.  

    

Also any suggestions for how I should go about doing the canopy top. I gather based on my review of the top that laying a filler primer wont get it all, is the idea to do a coat of .5/.5 acetone/epoxy with some balloons before spraying filler needed? anything else I should be considering?  

    

Thanks!  

    

   

    

Pascal  

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      [quote][b]

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

Having filled way too many glass parts now and before I find one of the biggest time saving steps is to clean the part with soap and water, wipe clean with acetone, sand any gloss off the surface, clean with acetone again then apply epoxy resin to the entire surface using a playing card, they are abundunt here in Vegas  or old credit cards (they last longer) to press the epoxy into all the pinholes, scrape the entire surface with the cards. Once it is cured sand the rmove the gloss and fuzz. Apply any of the high fill epoxy primers, use the same brand as the top coat you are planning to use, sprayed then sanded almost all the way off will start the process. I don't recommend rolling/brushing because the first coats should be almost sanded away, rolling applies more than you need and the epoxy process seals and fills the pinholes so minimal primer is usually needed. Once the pinholes have disappeared fill any exposed weave and imperfections with micro/epoxy prime and sand until you acheive the smoothness you desire or just say that's good enough, I quit. It sounds like more work than it is but that's the process that has worked well for me. There is no looks great with minimal work method I have found, sanding-priming-sanding-priming always made for the best prep. This works well on the pants, cowl, doors, top, all the parts. 



Rick Sked

40185

---

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

spread and spray by Sherman Williams is the primer/filler  used by Piper and their fiberglass starts pretty rough (about like  Vans).

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  pascal

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:58 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: canopy top  smoothing/priming

  From: pascal (pascalreid(at)msn.com) 

 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:57 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

 Looking for a good way to smooth (aka fill pin holes) on the  canopy top as well as prime. I know there is Smooth Prime but that is a  "smoother" than requires another coat of actual primer. Many reasons I am trying  to avoid doing the multiple layers.

 Also any suggestions for how I should go about doing the  canopy top. I gather based on my review of the top that laying a filler primer  wont get it all, is the idea to do a coat of .5/.5 acetone/epoxy with some  balloons before spraying filler needed? anything else I should be  considering?

 Thanks!

 Pascal

[quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]

pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

Good point, I'll be using a paint that has the UV protection  in it, Same one used for corvettes and such.

 Thanks for pointing that out.

 Pascal

  



  From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net) 

 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:59 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Re: canopy top  smoothing/priming

 



  

Pascal, 

  

   You left out a critical part of the name below.  It’s actually called UV  Smooth Prime and also acts as a UV blocker for composite parts which is  critical.  UV WILL breakdown our composites eventually making them  brittle.  Whatever you use make sure it has a UV inhibitor in it or you put  it on thick enough to have enough solids to do the job. 

  

Michael 

    

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  pascal

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:58 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: canopy top  smoothing/priming



 

   

 

   

 

   

From: pascal (pascalreid(at)msn.com) 

  

Sent: Thursday, December  18, 2008 8:57 AM

  

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)  

  

Subject: canopy top  smoothing/priming

  

 

  

Looking for a good way to  smooth (aka fill pin holes) on the canopy top as well as prime. I know there is  Smooth Prime but that is a "smoother" than requires another coat of actual  primer. Many reasons I am trying to avoid doing the multiple  layers.

  

Also any suggestions for how I  should go about doing the canopy top. I gather based on my review of the top  that laying a filler primer wont get it all, is the idea to do a coat of .5/.5  acetone/epoxy with some balloons before spraying filler needed? anything else I  should be considering?

  

Thanks!

  

 

  

Pascal

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pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

Rick and all that responded, thank you for the guidance with this. I had an 

idea and your feedback has allowed me to use my brain cells to think about 

something else now.

Thanks all!

Pascal



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Rick Sked" <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:12 AM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Re: canopy top smoothing/priming



[quote] 

 Having filled way too many glass parts now and before I find one of the 

 biggest time saving steps is to clean the part with soap and water, wipe 

 clean with acetone, sand any gloss off the surface, clean with acetone 

 again then apply epoxy resin to the entire surface using a playing card, 

 they are abundunt here in Vegas  or old credit cards (they last longer) 

 to press the epoxy into all the pinholes, scrape the entire surface with 

 the cards. Once it is cured sand the rmove the gloss and fuzz. Apply any 

 of the high fill epoxy primers, use the same brand as the top coat you are 

 planning to use, sprayed then sanded almost all the way off will start the 

 process. I don't recommend rolling/brushing because the first coats should 

 be almost sanded away, rolling applies more than you need and the epoxy 

 process seals and fills the pinholes so minimal primer is usually needed. 

 Once the pinholes have disappeared fill any exposed weave and 

 imperfections with micro/epoxy prime and sand u!

 ntil you acheive the smoothness you desire or just say that's good enough, 

 I quit. It sounds like more work than it is but that's the process that 

 has worked well for me. There is no looks great with minimal work method I 

 have found, sanding-priming-sanding-priming always made for the best prep. 

 This works well on the pants, cowl, doors, top, all the parts.



 Rick Sked

 40185

 ---

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

pascal wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    



 *From:* pascal <mailto:pascalreid(at)msn.com>

 *Sent:* Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:57 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 *Subject:* canopy top smoothing/priming



 Looking for a good way to smooth (aka fill pin holes) on the canopy 

 top as well as prime. I know there is Smooth Prime but that is a 

 "smoother" than requires another coat of actual primer. Many reasons I 

 am trying to avoid doing the multiple layers.

If you really want it to come out nice, you need the multiple layers 
	


.... you'll be sanding most all of it off, but it really needs to be done.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Also any suggestions for how I should go about doing the canopy top. I 

 gather based on my review of the top that laying a filler primer wont 

 get it all, is the idea to do a coat of .5/.5 acetone/epoxy with some 

 balloons before spraying filler needed? anything else I should be 

 considering?

I wouldn't do the epoxy route because it won't be smoother than the top 
	


is now, and you do not want to trap air in the pinholes .... the chances 

of them creating bubbles down the road is high.  Sanding out the Smooth 

Prime is much easier than sanding the epoxy.



It's a lot of work and it's messy (dusty) but the Smooth Prime is my 

choice, followed by a urethane primer for the paint to adhere to.

Linn



 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks!

  

 Pascal

 *



 *

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

Van's and Loehle aviation were raving about the Loehle product called 

Wonderfil to take care of the pinholes, there was an article in the latest 

RVator. I plan to try it.

-Chris Lucas

 #40072



---

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

I agree with almost all Rick says here ..... but instead of the epoxy, 

use the card to apply the first one (or maybe two) coat of _UV_ Smooth 

Prime (thanks Michael for the reminder) and roll the subsequent layers.  

That epoxy gets hard and I'm a little on the lazy side!!!  You can also 

lightly (really lightly, like a mist) spray black paint on top of the UV 

Smooth Prime which will really highlight the highs and lows when you 

start to sand.  Alternate with another dark color (such as blue) between 

successive coats.

Linn_



_Rick Sked wrote:

[quote] 

 Having filled way too many glass parts now and before I find one of the biggest time saving steps is to clean the part with soap and water, wipe clean with acetone, sand any gloss off the surface, clean with acetone again then apply epoxy resin to the entire surface using a playing card, they are abundunt here in Vegas  or old credit cards (they last longer) to press the epoxy into all the pinholes, scrape the entire surface with the cards. Once it is cured sand the rmove the gloss and fuzz. Apply any of the high fill epoxy primers, use the same brand as the top coat you are planning to use, sprayed then sanded almost all the way off will start the process. I don't recommend rolling/brushing because the first coats should be almost sanded away, rolling applies more than you need and the epoxy process seals and fills the pinholes so minimal primer is usually needed. Once the pinholes have disappeared fill any exposed weave and imperfections with micro/epoxy prime and sand u!

  ntil you acheive the smoothness you desire or just say that's good enough, I quit. It sounds like more work than it is but that's the process that has worked well for me. There is no looks great with minimal work method I have found, sanding-priming-sanding-priming always made for the best prep. This works well on the pants, cowl, doors, top, all the parts. 



 Rick Sked

 40185

 ---

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

Linn hit the nail on the head. You need atleast two different colors so that you can see the highs and lows when profiling the top.

  

 John



[quote] Date: Thu C 18 Dec 2008 14:05:34 -0500

 From: pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: canopy top smoothing/priming

 

 --> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>

 

 I agree with almost all Rick says here ..... but instead of the epoxy C 

 use the card to apply the first one (or maybe two) coat of _UV_ Smooth 

 Prime (thanks Michael for the reminder) and roll the subsequent layers. 

 That epoxy gets hard and I'm a little on the lazy side!!! You can also 

 lightly (really lightly C like a mist) spray black paint on top of the UV 

 Smooth Prime which will really highlight the highs and lows when you 

 start to sand. Alternate with another dark color (such as blue) between 

 successive coats.

 Linn_

 

 _Rick Sked wrote:

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>

 >

 >

 > Having filled way too many glass parts now and before I find one of the biggest time saving steps is to clean the part with soap and water C wipe clean with acetone C sand any gloss off the surface C clean with acetone again then apply epoxy resin to the entire surface using a playing card C they are abundunt here in Vegas  or old credit cards (they last longer) to press the epoxy into all the pinholes C scrape the entire surface with the cards. Once it is cured sand the rmove the gloss and fuzz. Apply any of the high fill epoxy primers C use the same brand as the top coat you are planning to use C sprayed then sanded almost all the way off will start the process. I don't recommend rolling/brushing because the first coats should be almost sanded away C rolling applies more than you need and the epoxy process seals and fills the pinholes so minimal primer is usually needed. Once the pinholes have disappeared fill any exposed weave and imperfections with micro/epoxy prime and sand!

 u!

 > ntil you acheive the smoothness you desire or just say that's good enough C I quit. It sounds like more work than it is but that's the process that has worked well for me. There is no looks great with minimal work method I have found C sanding-priming-sanding-priming always made for the best prep. This works well on the pants C cowl C doors C top C all the parts. 

 >

 > Rick Sked

 > 40185

 > ---

gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: canopy top smoothing/priming

That was my RV 10 in the picture, and I can personally attest to the  

superb qualities of Mike Loehle's products!



Grumpy N184JM



On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:02 PM, Chris wrote:



[quote] 



 Van's and Loehle aviation were raving about the Loehle product  

 called Wonderfil to take care of the pinholes, there was an article  

 in the latest RVator. I plan to try it.

 -Chris Lucas

 #40072



 ---

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