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Additional L angles in fuselage.

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Harvey Richards

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Nova Scotia

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

I have seen where people have done the additional diagonal L bracing to cut down on oil canning. I am at that stage and have been wondering what to do. Some have gone with diagonals and some with complete X's between the Ls shown on the plans. Would not going straight across,parallel to the Ls, shown on the plans  do the job. One could then tie them together with .025 gussets as already shown on the plans. This would take less L angles, be lighter and cut the unsupported distance in half also. Any thoughts? Thanks

_________________
CH 701

ch701builder(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

That should work!! I put diagonals on my sides and plan on doing the parallel method on my top and bottom, (sections right behind the baggage compartment)



Keith

CH701 -- scratch

N 38.9940

W 105.1305

Alt. 9,100'

From: Harvey Richards <lisa.richards(at)ns.sympatico.ca>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 1:30:54 PM

Subject:  Additional L angles in fuselage.



 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Harvey Richards" <lisa.richards(at)ns.sympatico.ca (lisa.richards(at)ns.sympatico.ca)>



I have seen where people have done the diagonal additional L bracing to cut down on oil canning. I am at that stage and have been wondering what to do. Some have gone with diagonals and some with complete X's between the Ls shown on the plans. Would not going straight across,parallel to the Ls, shown on the plans  do the job. One could then tie them together with .025 gussets as already shown on the plans. This would take less L angles, be lighter and cut the unsupported distance in half also. Any thoughts? Thanks



--------

CH 701





Read this topic online here:

Harvey Richards

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Nova Scotia

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Thanks Keith. Slight crimps with the fluting pliers to tighten the top edge of the L are also supposed to cut down on noise.

_________________
CH 701

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Keith and Harvey,

Diagonals are strongly recommended and I've also seen strips of duct 

tape used as an effective means of knocking down the noise as well.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

do not archive



Keith Ashcraft wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   That should work!! I put diagonals on my sides and plan on doing the 

 parallel method on my top and bottom, (sections right behind the 

 baggage compartment)



 Keith

 CH701 -- scratch

 N 38.9940

 W 105.1305

 Alt. 9,100'



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 *From:* Harvey Richards <lisa.richards(at)ns.sympatico.ca>

 *To:* zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 *Sent:* Saturday, January 3, 2009 1:30:54 PM

 *Subject:* Additional L angles in fuselage.



 

 <lisa.richards(at)ns.sympatico.ca <mailto:lisa.richards(at)ns.sympatico.ca>>



 I have seen where people have done the diagonal additional L bracing 

 to cut down on oil canning. I am at that stage and have been wondering 

 what to do. Some have gone with diagonals and some with complete X's 

 between the Ls shown on the plans. Would not going straight 

 across,parallel to the Ls, shown on the plans  do the job. One could 

 then tie them together with .025 gussets as already shown on the 

 plans. This would take less L angles, be lighter and cut the 

 unsupported distance in half also. Any thoughts? Thanks



 --------

 CH 701





 Read this topic online here:



 *======



 *

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Maybe I'm blind, as others have told me this, but I can not find any oil canning bracing in the plans. So I was planning on x bracing. What page is this one?

Thanks 



Kevin 

do not archive

 	  Harvey Richards wrote: 	
		  I have seen where people have done the additional diagonal L bracing to cut down on oil canning. I am at that stage and have been wondering what to do. Some have gone with diagonals and some with complete X's between the Ls shown on the plans. Would not going straight across,parallel to the Ls, shown on the plans  do the job. One could then tie them together with .025 gussets as already shown on the plans. This would take less L angles, be lighter and cut the unsupported distance in half also. Any thoughts? Thanks

_________________
â€œAlways do what you are afraid to do.â€
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

Harvey Richards

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Nova Scotia

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Thanks also Larry. I can see the advantage of diagonal L angles for bracing strength but believed,maybe mistakenly, that the L angles were only to provide stiffness to the unsupported sheet metal. I was looking for a reason why the diagonal was better as there may be something I'm missing.

_________________
CH 701

Harvey Richards

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Nova Scotia

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.

There is none shown on the plans Kevin thats why I'm unsure

_________________
CH 701

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

I put X's in them, though maybe a single diagonal would be enough.  Even 

slipping as much as possible I've had no oil canning at all, except the 

bottom hatch which was cured by putting in an X brace.

I'm not sure how everyone else does it, though when I looked for photos on 

the internet most that I saw seemed to have X braces.

---

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Harvey,

The angles provide a best way to reduce the large unsupported area and 

help add to the structural integrity of the fuselage. Beyond that, the 

addition of

duct tape strips broadly spaced will dampen the sound a lot. The first 

three bays behind the seats are the worst and the rearmost is probably a 

hard one to

get angle into, but worth it.



Larry

do not archive



Harvey Richards wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks also Larry. I can see the advantage of diagonal L angles for bracing strength but believed,maybe mistakenly, that the L angles were only to provide stiffness to the unsupported sheet metal. I was looking for a reason why the diagonal was better as there may be something I'm missing.



 --------

 CH 701

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

I don't recall seeing any discussion of the possibility of putting X creases 

in the panels to increase stiffness.  Am I missing something?



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive

---

Harvey Richards

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Nova Scotia

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Have decided to follow the norm and go with the X bracing . I can see the advantage to tying the top and bottom longerons together on the diagonal and the  four smaller triangles  between the Ls should be stronger.

_________________
CH 701

Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:15 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

I'm going against the norm and do mine with single diagonal braces of a

square truss like is shown in the following link:

http://www.supplierlist.com/photo_images/32654/Truss.jpg



I'm going to use .016" AL with about 50mm rivet spacing.  I will try to tie

them into the corners.



Curt

Plans building CH701



--

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Kinda like what I have done?



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mhDbWUJRTOE/RxW3sp5NmnI/AAAAAAAAC_g/F6K9oqBnoAQ/s1600-h/IMG_3413.jpg

 

Here you can see one of the spots where I installed some sound deadening material: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mhDbWUJRTOE/RxsWJJ5NmrI/AAAAAAAADAU/rXSuCYd_TtY/s1600-h/IMG_3425.jpg

 



John Marzulli



http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/

http://marzulli.smugmug.com/

http://701Builder.blogspot.com/

 http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/

 



On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net (Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Curt Thompson" <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net (Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net)>

 

 I'm going against the norm and do mine with single diagonal braces of a

 square truss like is shown in the following link:

 http://www.supplierlist.com/photo_images/32654/Truss.jpg

 

 I'm going to use .016" AL with about 50mm rivet spacing.  I will try to tie

 them into the corners.

 

 Curt

 Plans building CH701

 

 --

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Curt, this is basically what I have done but am a little concerned about the oil cannieness just aft of the baggage area that this has left me with.



The rest of the bays aft of the largest one seem nice and tight with only the one diagnal stiffener in each.



Take this all with a grain of salt though as I am not finished building yet.



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada



Do Not Archive



--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net>

 Subject: RE: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 4:14 PM

 

 Thompson" <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net>

 

 I'm going against the norm and do mine with single

 diagonal braces of a

 square truss like is shown in the following link:

 http://www.supplierlist.com/photo_images/32654/Truss.jpg

 

 I'm going to use .016" AL with about 50mm rivet

 spacing.  I will try to tie

 them into the corners.

 

 Curt

 Plans building CH701

ch701builder(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

All,

I seem to remember that Les Goldner used wood molding, glued to the inside running horizontal. He does monitor the list (when he isn't out flying) maybe he can join in and tell about his experience!!



Are you there Les?



Keith

CH701-scratch

*****************************************************

From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, January  6, 2009 5:18:37 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.



 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com (dougsnash(at)yahoo.com)>



Curt, this is basically what I have done but am a little concerned about the oil cannieness just aft of the baggage area that this has left me with.



The rest of the bays aft of the largest one seem nice and tight with only the one diagnal stiffener in each.



Take this all with a grain of salt though as I am not finished building yet.



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada



Do Not Archive



--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net (Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net)> wrote:



[quote] From: Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net (Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net)>

 Subject: RE:  Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)

 Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 4:14 PM

 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Curt

 Thompson" <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net (Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net)>

 

 I'm going against the norm and do mine with single

 diagonal braces of a

 square truss like is shown in the following link:

 http://www.supplierlist.com/photo_images/32654/Truss.jpg

 

 I'm going to use .016" AL with about 50mm rivet

 spacing.  I will try to tie

 them into the corners.

 

 Curt

 Plans building CH701

         [quote][b]

Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:24 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

John,  

   

I’m going to do the top and bottom too.  I’m going to arrange them like the square truss picture I linked to earlier.  

   

Curt  

         

  

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Marzulli

 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:46 PM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.  

  

   

Kinda like what I have done?    

   

    

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mhDbWUJRTOE/RxW3sp5NmnI/AAAAAAAAC_g/F6K9oqBnoAQ/s1600-h/IMG_3413.jpg  

    

   

    

Here you can see one of the spots where I installed some sound deadening material: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mhDbWUJRTOE/RxsWJJ5NmrI/AAAAAAAADAU/rXSuCYd_TtY/s1600-h/IMG_3425.jpg  

    

   

    

 John Marzulli

 

   

  [quote] [b]

JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Hi Curt;

             I  made diagonal braces from standard "L" as they are on the factory 701. The  rearmost diagonal was my starting point, it goes from bottom skin at the rear to  upper skin toward the front. The next brace started at the top skin and so on. I  tied them into the corners near the vertical "L", I used A4 rivets at the  standard rivet spacing of 40 mm. If you look on the Zenith web site they are  visible. I have flown the factory 701 and did not hear any oil canning.

  

 John  Read

CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300



Phone: 303-648-3261

Fax:  303-648-3262

Cell: 719-494-4567   

  





Stay up-to-da news - from fashion trends to celebrity break-ups and everything in between.

  [quote][b]

Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:32 am Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Thanks for the feedback John.  

   

The diagonals are going in different directions on the factory CH701 than they are in the CH750.  At least that is what I observed at Oshkosh.  I didn’t ask why.  

   

Curt  

         

  

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnDRead(at)aol.com

 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 8:35 PM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Additional L angles in fuselage.  

  

     

Hi Curt;  

    

            I made diagonal braces from standard "L" as they are on the factory 701. The rearmost diagonal was my starting point, it goes from bottom skin at the rear to upper skin toward the front. The next brace started at the top skin and so on. I tied them into the corners near the vertical "L", I used A4 rivets at the standard rivet spacing of 40 mm. If you look on the Zenith web site they are visible. I have flown the factory 701 and did not hear any oil canning.  

    

   

    

John Read

 CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300

 

 Phone: 303-648-3261

 Fax: 303-648-3262

 Cell: 719-494-4567     

   

    

   

  

  [quote] [b]

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Harvey,

My 7-01 has been flying for over a year. Rather than put in additional "L"s,

I glued in some cheap light 1" wood "L" moldings and painted over them in

places in the fus where I wanted to stop the oil canning. This method seems

to be working very well. The oil canning has been reduced and this is a

lighter and a much simpler approach than having to rivet in metal "L"s. 

Les 



--

dlorrzen701(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: Additional L angles in fuselage.

Les, what brand of glue did you use?

Thanks

David L. Orr

--

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