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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

I'm not sure what you're suggesting, Noel. It seems like a drilled  

head would only retain the bolt if the nut decided to leave. Unless  

you're suggesting to wrap safety wire through the drilled head,  

around the spring leafs, and through the drilled bolt body and nut...?

Maybe you'd better clarify, Noel, I'm gettin' nowhere with it. : )



It is simply a case for a cross-drilled bolt...2 holes at 90 degrees  

to one another.... (through the threaded end) and a castle nut. This  

gives 1/12th turn resolution for tightening...twice the options for  

getting the nut to a preload that is preferred, over that of a single- 

drilled hole through the threads.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying



On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:17 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 How about a spot for a drilled he4ad and a bit of lockwire?



 Noel



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

At 09:54 AM 1/18/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Look at Gary's picture three. That is definitely extremely in the 

wrong direction.

Reference the photo on page 17 of that Maule tailwheel writeup.


	


         I'm going to kick the nest, just to see if I can get some 

good data. I looked at the pdf, thinking it was a Maule document, but 

found it wasn't, so I'm not overly inclined to believe it, (or 

otherwise.) My configuration is as Lynn's, with the pivot "forward", 

meaning a line projected through the pivot to the ground intersects 

the ground forward of vertical. I use a Grove (gasp!) spring so 

there's no question of it flexing even under the load of my 

incredibly powerful physique. And yes, my plane taxis just fine at 

all speeds. Why?

         My conjecture during assembly was that the "forward" 

configuration minimized shimmy. Did I do any math? No. But here's my 

educated opinion: Shimmy is a resonance condition requiring mass for 

inertia, plus a restoring force for amplification. To amplify shimmy 

that restoring force wants to act at a time and in such a way to 

"amplify" the response. We have two cases to investigate:



1. Pivot "forward": (As above.) At rest, if the tailwheel turns the 

tail drops and the tailwheel wants to continue to turn up until it 

has turned 180 degrees. In motion, if the tailwheel turns, the moment 

offset between the contact patch and the pivot causes the wheel to 

want to return to centerline. The "tail drop" caused by the "forward" 

pivot tends to reduce this restorative force.



2. Pivot "aft" per 

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/Maule_Tailwheel.pdf, page 17: At 

rest, if the tailwheel turns the tail lifts and the tailwheel wants 

to return to centerline. In motion the response is the same as in 1, 

above. The "tail lift" caused by the "aft" pivot tends to add to the 

restorative force.



         I won't address the case of the pivot being vertical, 

because that's nearly impossible to achieve. Now in case 2 there is 

more restorative force than case 1. I therefore speculated that 

because the shimmy was driven by the restorative force I'd have less 

likelihood of shimmy if I had a "forward" pivot.

         That was my logic and it left me, for whatever reason, with 

no shimmy. Now as you have probably guessed, I are an engineer, 

(though I don't play one on TV,) and I did due diligence via the 

Internet. What I found was that, not surprisingly, caster wheel 

shimmy, being a resonance phenomenon, does not lend itself to 

cookbook answers; there are simply too many variables involved.

         Oh, and I also found this: http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php.



Regards,

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Cameras have been around a long time.  Romans knew the Camera Obscura...

literally "Dark Room".  Like Freddy Fintstone the artist went in the camera

and traced the picture inverted.  George Eastman Patented paper roll film in

1880 and the Kodak Camera (roll film) in 1888.  We have had home computers

less than 35 Yr...  Acrobat, around 25 yr.  Inserting pictures into the file

is no more difficult than inserting the drawings.  Yes he could have used

photographs if he wanted to.  



He probably thought the drawings were cleaner.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Tail wheel

 	  Guy Buchanan wrote: 	
		  At 09:54 AM 1/18/2009, you wrote:



        I are an engineer, 

(though I don't play one on TV,) and I did due diligence via the 

Internet. What I found was that, not surprisingly, caster wheel 

shimmy, being a resonance phenomenon, does not lend itself to 

cookbook answers; there are simply too many variables involved.

         Oh, and I also found this: http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php.



Regards,

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. 	




Did you at least stay at a holiday in express last night :dunno:  If not we are gonna have to lump your opinion in with the other chumps LOL.  Sorry, I let the humor outa the bag again, I need to tie a tighter knot in the top of it.



My tail wheel is the Matco Pneumatic and with the 2 leaf spring (gasp, I hope is does not fall off) as luck would have it it is pretty much straight up and down on the pivot point, maybe leaning slightly aft.  No issues with shimmy, but I take off full stick forward and get the tail up in just a few feet so I don't have anything digging into the turf.  Landings are normally 3 pointers but I have not had any shimmy issues yet.  I run the compression springs pretty darn tight and that may have alot to do with it too.

Leni Avid tailwheel.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

312.42 KB

Viewed:

489 Time(s)

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

At 09:30 PM 1/18/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Yes it certainly sits higher but the angle is really the problem I think. If mine is sitting stationery and I give the tail a push to unlatch the tail wheel it will swing completely 180 deg so that the tail wheel assy faces backwards. It's then a doozy trying to get it turned around. 	


 Gary,

         Though I think you've got the right direction, it sounds like you've got too much of a good thing. My angle "forward", (pivot centerline forward of vertical at the ground,) is only about two or three degrees. (And no, I don't flex "aft". I have the Grove spring. It ain't goin' nowhere.) I'll try to measure it when I get a chance.



 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.    [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

On Mon, January 19, 2009 8:29 am, fox5flyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   It amazes me that we have so few choices for a decent tailwheel out there.


	


Maule and Scott have been mentioned. Mine is a Matco and seems to be pretty well built.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Nope, NOT a Maule document, and not overly accurate in at least one  

statement, that of the break-away occurring only on left turns. This  

document seems to have grown a life of its own being, perhaps, one of  

the few available. I printed it out early on in my Kitfox-building  

life and hung onto it like a life preserver. It got me where I needed  

to get to, and now I can see some faults with it, but it's better  

than nothing...I think. As a primer for taking your assembly apart  

and fixing it, it suffices, but it is not an end-all. It is not a  

textbook about tailwheel geometry.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive

On Jan 19, 2009, at 5:32 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 09:54 AM 1/18/2009, you wrote:

> Look at Gary's picture three. That is definitely extremely in the  

> wrong direction.

> Reference the photo on page 17 of that Maule tailwheel writeup.

         I'm going to kick the nest, just to see if I can get some  

 good data. I looked at the pdf, thinking it was a Maule document,  

 but found it wasn't, so I'm not overly inclined to believe it, (or  

 otherwise.) My configuration is as Lynn's, with the pivot  

 "forward", meaning a line projected through the pivot to the ground  

 intersects the ground forward of vertical. I use a Grove (gasp!)  

 spring so there's no question of it flexing even under the load of  

 my incredibly powerful physique. And yes, my plane taxis just fine  

 at all speeds. Why?

         My conjecture during assembly was that the "forward"  

 configuration minimized shimmy. Did I do any math? No. But here's  

 my educated opinion: Shimmy is a resonance condition requiring mass  

 for inertia, plus a restoring force for amplification. To amplify  

 shimmy that restoring force wants to act at a time and in such a  

 way to "amplify" the response. We have two cases to investigate:

 1. Pivot "forward": (As above.) At rest, if the tailwheel turns the  

 tail drops and the tailwheel wants to continue to turn up until it  

 has turned 180 degrees. In motion, if the tailwheel turns, the  

 moment offset between the contact patch and the pivot causes the  

 wheel to want to return to centerline. The "tail drop" caused by  

 the "forward" pivot tends to reduce this restorative force.

 2. Pivot "aft" per http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/ 

 Maule_Tailwheel.pdf, page 17: At rest, if the tailwheel turns the  

 tail lifts and the tailwheel wants to return to centerline. In  

 motion the response is the same as in 1, above. The "tail lift"  

 caused by the "aft" pivot tends to add to the restorative force.

         I won't address the case of the pivot being vertical,  

 because that's nearly impossible to achieve. Now in case 2 there is  

 more restorative force than case 1. I therefore speculated that  

 because the shimmy was driven by the restorative force I'd have  

 less likelihood of shimmy if I had a "forward" pivot.

         That was my logic and it left me, for whatever reason, with  

 no shimmy. Now as you have probably guessed, I are an engineer,  

 (though I don't play one on TV,) and I did due diligence via the  

 Internet. What I found was that, not surprisingly, caster wheel  

 shimmy, being a resonance phenomenon, does not lend itself to  

 cookbook answers; there are simply too many variables involved.

         Oh, and I also found this: http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php.

 Regards,

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

I don't know why, but I was under the impression the bolt was threaded into

one of the leaves as a vibration damper...  



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:04 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Excellent article, Guy....http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php.    Not  

being an engineer (bad enough being a Michigander), I found it very  

useful and informative. Notice all the theories therein....high tire  

pressure, low tire pressure, forward tilt, backward tilt, etc...ya  

gotta love it.

One thing I did object to though, was his spelling of the word  

"caster" ...he likes "castor" as does Drew Fidoe, author of the oft- 

mentioned "Maule article"  The dictionary likes the use of caster (in  

respect to the current subject), but gives  a nod to castor being a  

"variant" of caster. I prefer caster because that's the word I  

learned way back when. I think of castor as being something too close  

to being a cathartic, and also a close dictionary neighbor of  

"castrate", which I also like to avoid.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive

On Jan 19, 2009, at 5:32 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 09:54 AM 1/18/2009, you wrote:

> Look at Gary's picture three. That is definitely extremely in the  

> wrong direction.

> Reference the photo on page 17 of that Maule tailwheel writeup.

         I'm going to kick the nest, just to see if I can get some  

 good data. I looked at the pdf, thinking it was a Maule document,  

 but found it wasn't, so I'm not overly inclined to believe it, (or  

 otherwise.) My configuration is as Lynn's, with the pivot  

 "forward", meaning a line projected through the pivot to the ground  

 intersects the ground forward of vertical. I use a Grove (gasp!)  

 spring so there's no question of it flexing even under the load of  

 my incredibly powerful physique. And yes, my plane taxis just fine  

 at all speeds. Why?

         My conjecture during assembly was that the "forward"  

 configuration minimized shimmy. Did I do any math? No. But here's  

 my educated opinion: Shimmy is a resonance condition requiring mass  

 for inertia, plus a restoring force for amplification. To amplify  

 shimmy that restoring force wants to act at a time and in such a  

 way to "amplify" the response. We have two cases to investigate:

 1. Pivot "forward": (As above.) At rest, if the tailwheel turns the  

 tail drops and the tailwheel wants to continue to turn up until it  

 has turned 180 degrees. In motion, if the tailwheel turns, the  

 moment offset between the contact patch and the pivot causes the  

 wheel to want to return to centerline. The "tail drop" caused by  

 the "forward" pivot tends to reduce this restorative force.

 2. Pivot "aft" per http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/ 

 Maule_Tailwheel.pdf, page 17: At rest, if the tailwheel turns the  

 tail lifts and the tailwheel wants to return to centerline. In  

 motion the response is the same as in 1, above. The "tail lift"  

 caused by the "aft" pivot tends to add to the restorative force.

         I won't address the case of the pivot being vertical,  

 because that's nearly impossible to achieve. Now in case 2 there is  

 more restorative force than case 1. I therefore speculated that  

 because the shimmy was driven by the restorative force I'd have  

 less likelihood of shimmy if I had a "forward" pivot.

         That was my logic and it left me, for whatever reason, with  

 no shimmy. Now as you have probably guessed, I are an engineer,  

 (though I don't play one on TV,) and I did due diligence via the  

 Internet. What I found was that, not surprisingly, caster wheel  

 shimmy, being a resonance phenomenon, does not lend itself to  

 cookbook answers; there are simply too many variables involved.

         Oh, and I also found this: http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php.

 Regards,

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

On Mon, January 19, 2009 2:32 pm, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


clip clip



 	  Quote: 	
		   What I found was that, not surprisingly, caster wheel

 shimmy, being a resonance phenomenon, does not lend itself to

 cookbook answers; there are simply too many variables involved.

          Oh, and I also found this: http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php.


	


That is a pretty good story and writeup. He also has posted his arbitrary definition

with a drawing of what he uses as positive and negative caster angle.



<http://www.pierceaero.net/techdata/tws.jpg>



I see that the amount of caster offset apparently offers greater shimmy resistance

which more than compensates for the loss by the tail lifting force produced by the

posiitive angle. This is confirmed by testing and corroborates Lynn's experience.



A small positive angle (like Lynn's) seems to be the ticket to success along with good

maintenance, lubrication, and if using a pneumatic tire, high enough pressure to keep

the tire from slipping on the rim in spin up. A positive angle also makes it easier to

induce a turn. Too much and it will spin around backwards.



It would appear to me that 15 to 20 degrees of negative king pin angle is likely to

produce shimmy.



I have mine set at very close to vertical. If I have shimmy problems, I'll give it a

wee bit of positive tilt by shimming the tail spring.



This has been great with so many people providing experience input. Lynn, Deke, Guy,

Lowell, Noel, Len and Gary have all contributed to this knowledge base.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearw
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

O.K  - I can't stand it any more. I don't know who you are Lynn Matteson

but you must not have a life. I count 14 postings since 11:30 a.m. and you

don't really have that much profound to say. Why don't you two or three

guys, as the kids use to say, get a room. 



Frank Miles

Clarkston, Washington

K - III

--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Not from what I've seen. No, the bolt passes through the 2 main  

leaves...in the case of the 3-leaf McBean spring at least, and  

through the tailwheel assembly, and has a nut on the other side. In  

the case of the original single *main* leaf spring, you can tighten  

that mounting bolt up 'til the cows come home. But with the 2 main  

leaves, one having a larger hole than the other...to allow for the  

different lengths of travel as they bend...you cannot tighten the  

mounting bolt as much. The leaves must slide against each other as  

they flex, although this movement is small and in accordance with how  

much the spring flexes....the more bounce, the more longitudinal  

movement between them. This is why I suggested a castellated nut, and  

a drilled bolt shank, and to get a more accurate "fine-tuning" of the  

amount of torque, a cross-drilled shank (2 holes at 90 degrees to  

each other) to allow 1/12th of a turn accuracy in adjusting the torque.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:21 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 I don't know why, but I was under the impression the bolt was  

 threaded into

 one of the leaves as a vibration damper...



 Noel



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Well I was going to post the fotos of my new setup plus results but certainly don't want to offend Frank Miles or  others - I'll send the details off-line! 

 

Regards 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Kitfox Classic Jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

"Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

20/01/2009 10:54 AM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>   cc

    Subject

 RE: Tail wheel 

     

 

 

 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>

 

 

 

  O.K  - I can't stand it any more. I don't know who you are Lynn Matteson

 but you must not have a life. I count 14 postings since 11:30 a.m. and you

 don't really have that much profound to say. Why don't you two or three

 guys, as the kids use to say, get a room. 

 

 Frank Miles

 Clarkston, Washington

 K - III

 

 

 --

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Ever heard of "delete"?



And I've GOT a life....I spent my time today...when I wasn't counting  

postings....working on the skis that I recently built and will fly up  

to Oshkosh this weekend. For lunch, I met with three other fliers who  

flew their ski-equipped Piper Cubs into Napoleon Airport in 13 inches  

of snow.



I fly my Kitfox plane from coast-to-coast when it suits me, and I've  

learned a lot from this group of builders, and when I can share some  

of what I've learned, I do so, and I usually don't bother with petty  

grievances such as yours, but this one caught me in just the right  

mood to strike back.



How's YOUR life if it means counting posts? Have you got a  

contribution to make to the group?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Jan 19, 2009, at 7:17 PM, Frank Miles wrote:



[quote] 

 833(at)clearwire.net>



  O.K  - I can't stand it any more. I don't know who you are Lynn  

 Matteson

 but you must not have a life. I count 14 postings since 11:30 a.m.  

 and you

 don't really have that much profound to say. Why don't you two or  

 three

 guys, as the kids use to say, get a room.



 Frank Miles

 Clarkston, Washington

 K - III

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Here's one vote to say please post them to the group. At  first I was convinced that the "Maule Geometry" was correct, although with  all the traffic here did not need to add my input. (Remember, I are a  engineer<g>). But you guys have made a great case for the "Matteson  Geometry" and I think you should go ahead with that Pat Pending  Lynn<wink>. And some of the long winded diatribes I did in fact  delete...

  

 Keep up the good discussion guys, never mind the  cranks.

  

 Bob Brennan  - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA  Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa  

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  gary.algate(at)sandvik.com

Sent: 19 January 2009 7:32  pm

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Kitfox-List:  Tail wheel

 



Well I was going to post the fotos  of my new setup plus results but certainly don't want to offend Frank Miles or   others - I'll send the details off-line! 



Regards 



Gary



Gary Algate

Kitfox  Classic Jab 2200

Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.  Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons  or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have  received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or  e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept  liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

“This year, instead of  sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to  UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy  Christmas". 



            



"Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>        

Sent by:        owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

20/01/2009 10:54 AM 

Please        respond to

kitfox-list(at)matronics.com                                                       To

           <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>                                  cc

                                            Subject

           RE: Tail          wheel

                                               



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Frank Miles"  <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>



O.K  - I can't stand  it any more. I don't know who you are Lynn Matteson

but you must not have a  life. I count 14 postings since 11:30 a.m. and you

don't really have that  much profound to say. Why don't you two or three

guys, as the kids use to  say, get a room. 



Frank Miles

Clarkston, Washington

K -  III

--

f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearw
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Yes, I have heard of delete and I do it often. When you get over being

offended maybe you will think about what I said and slow down down on the

verbiage and keep your postings relevant. Those 14 or so postings was just

today!



Frank



Oh, I don't really care what you did all day!



--

djwild2(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

Gary,

 I have a Kitfox Model 1 and I just  broke my spring last week so I have been absorbing all this talk about springs.  Please continue to post pics on the group. There might be others out there  interested. If people aren't interested in this subject they don't have to read  them. 

 Dan Wild

 mdl1

 532

  



  From: gary.algate(at)sandvik.com (gary.algate(at)sandvik.com) 

 Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 6:31 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Tail wheel

 

Well I was going to post the  fotos of my new setup plus results but certainly don't want to offend Frank  Miles or  others - I'll send the details off-line! 



Regards 



Gary



Gary Algate

Kitfox  Classic Jab 2200

Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

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"Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>        

Sent by:        owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

20/01/2009 10:54 AM 

Please        respond to

kitfox-list(at)matronics.com                                                       To

           <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>                                  cc

                                            Subject

           RE: Tail            wheel

                                               



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Frank Miles"  <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>



O.K  - I can't stand  it any more. I don't know who you are Lynn Matteson

but you must not have a  life. I count 14 postings since 11:30 a.m. and you

don't really have that  much profound to say. Why don't you two or three

guys, as the kids use to  say, get a room. 



Frank Miles

Clarkston, Washington

K -  III

--

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Tail wheel

:Snack:

internet_fight.jpg

Description:

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165.98 KB

Viewed:

368 Time(s)

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

At 04:17 PM 1/19/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    O.K  - I can't stand it any more. I don't know who you are Lynn Matteson

but you must not have a life. I count 14 postings since 11:30 a.m. and you

don't really have that much profound to say. Why don't you two or three

guys, as the kids use to say, get a room.


	


Please don't respond to this. (I see I was too slow for Lynn, but 

please don't respond to his post either.) The moderators will handle 

it off-line.



Thanks,

Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: Tail wheel

On Mon, January 19, 2009 4:31 pm, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Well I was going to post the fotos of my new setup plus results but

 certainly don't want to offend Frank Miles or  others - I'll send the

 details off-line!


	


If others are like me, I have been eagerly anticipating your photos and writeup. I

don't see posting them in the forum as being intrusive at all.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

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