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Cowl hinge sealant?

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hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: Cowl hinge sealant?

Before I rivet on my firewall side cowl hinges... I recall adding sealant to the lower firewall to fuse tabs. Section 41-8 says rivet it all together, but doesn't mention any sealant. Seems like a good idea, but why bother if it's not a problem?



What have others done? 



I noticed that Vans firewall high-temp sealant is marked "We are temporarily unable to ship this product. Available only for Will Call purchase until further notice". hmmm. 



Proseal would provide a good CO block, but not do much for a real thermal event with visual indication.



Thanks,

Jay

rickbarnes(at)highlandden
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: Cowl hinge sealant?

On the Van's high-temp sealant:  I talked with them several months ago and

the issue has to do with hazardous materials.  In order to handle and ship a

hazardous material the people at Van's have to be certified to handle the

material.  Van's doesn't want to pay for all of the government certification

hassle. 



Rick



--

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Cowl hinge sealant?

Jay,



I debated about this also. Fortunately I got Van's high temp sealant before they stopped shipping it. Rather than seal the firewall flange, I sealed the aft side of the firewall to fuselage skins.



Jim Berry

40482

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: Cowl hinge sealant?

There are many sources that sell (approved) sealants that are now

currently impacted by Hazmat shipping procedures and Hazmat charges.

The secret is to find the closest geographic vendor and post here. I

remember someone posted that they had found their local source. My CRS

thinks it was Rick in Las Vegas. Another would be for one builder to buy

in bulk, repackage smaller to friends and effect the transfer without

triggering Hazmat shipping procedures at a builder "Get together".



The question about bother is, "Why seal?" Some sealants are used as an

adhesive, others are used to slow flame propagation, some are to protect

an underlying component, others to reduce moisture or hydro-carbon

infiltration.  When and what to use, that is the decision of each RV-10

builder.



We have an Eco-Nazi at work that even makes sure our old material is

"Compliant Discarded".  Once it is catalyzed and cured, it is no longer

hazmat but that doesn't stop the brown shirts with cameras and pens once

they are empowered.  Oh Lord, help the poor sole who uses a product that

is out of date or not correctly mixed. If they put it in the wrong

discard barrel - they are taken out and summarily shot.  I think their

ashes are sent into space with Gene Roddenberry's.



PPG/DeSoto's Proseal line of products is diverse and complex.

Flamemaster sealants are not ProSeal but do have similar Milspec product

compliance.  This thread is a good one much like acrylic adhesive

selection because so much is based on some builders who went before us,

tribal knowledge on the web and rumors passed on in cryptic code.  Every

part and product we used is selected by US not just a world class parts

manufacturer from Oregon.  We set our standard and by the recent

pictures, the bar is moving up all the time.



Bring On OSH '09 and a Grand Champion.



John



PS - Note from the archives: PRC-DeSoto ProSeal(tm)Information Phone

number 818-240-2040

14126 NE 190th Street, Woodinville, WA USA 98072 (used and supplied

Worldwide) for our friends across the pond



do not archive



--

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: Cowl hinge sealant? - Hi -temp sealants and rant

Paul Bowmar at Plane Innovations LLC (formerly of EPM-AV) has an excellent and thoroughly tested products. 



He sells a 2000 degree silicone seal for his fire protection kits. He will sell you some at a reasonable price. This stuff should be a lot better than the red goop........I bought some myself.



Bowmar also sells the stainless steel heater valves to replace the aluminum Van's valves on the firewall. I consider this a MANDATORY Option (along with the rivethead door pins and CNC trim blocks) when you are building this kit. It would be foolish to spend a lot of time on hi-temp sealant and ignore the biggest risk area on your firewall. As I recall the Plane Innovations SS valves are $200 and Vans will give you a $100 credit on the aluminum ones deleted from the kit.

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Cowl hinge sealant?

This stuff looks compelling, but vendors want to sell it by the case (12)

http://www.fireretardantsinc.com/3m/images/3m_2000_silicone.pdf



There's also a product called Biotherm 100, a 2000 degree fireblock sealant that remains rubbery after curing similar to RTV silicone. 

 

Prices are $3.00 for the 1/2 oz, $19.50 for the 10.6 oz. (fits in caulking gun).  Paul Bowmar (435) 826-4662  http://www.planeinnovations.com/. Note that the sealant isn't listed on his website.



Regards,

Jay

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Cowl hinge sealant?

Take a look at this company, as well. I have used their FP200 expanding foam with excellent results. This caulk looks like it might fit your needs.



http://cableorganizer.com/3m-fire-protection/fire-rated-caulk-cp310.htm



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

paul(at)bwbco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: Cowl hinge sealant?

The problem I found with intumescent fire block products is that they begin 

to intumess or expand at about 250 degrees.  Close proximity to 400 degree 

cylinder heads could touch off the expansion leaving future voids.  Plane 

Innovations sells a NON intumescent 2000 degree fireblock sealant. 

www.planeinnovations.com



Paul



---

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: Cowl hinge sealant?

There's no need to get Intumescent caulk online, it can be had at any local hardware store.



Michael



--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: Cowl hinge sealant?

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There's no need to get Intumescent caulk online, it can be had at any local hardware store.



 Michael

I had to look it up ..... great scrabble word!!!  :
	


An *intumescent* is a substance which swells as a result of heat 

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat> exposure, thus increasing in volume 

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume>, and decreasing in density 

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density>. Intumescents are typically used 

in passive fire protection 

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_fire_protection> and, in America, 

require listing and approval use and compliance 

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listing_and_approval_use_and_compliance> 

in their installed configurations in order to comply with the law 

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law>.

Linn

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