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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: weight question

when I did the weight and 

balance for the  plane ,the empty weight came out to 596.2 lbs.>>

  

 Hi there,

 just for interest here in the UK there is a strict limit on weight or the plane ceases to  be an ultralight. That means different pilot licences, plane licenses ,  maintenance schedules, insurance etc., as above the limit it automatically  becomes a light aircraft. We therefore do not embark on `beefing up` or a bit  extra here and there on the basis that `it isn`t much extra weight`. It would  automatically make our planes illegal. Of course if you intend to 

 My Xtra with Jabi 2200 with full oil but no fuel  came in at 548 lbs. 240lbs on the mains and 66lbs on the tailwheel.

 Today has been  really Springlike. Blue sky ,  light cumulus, 5 knots wind. I actually ran the engine for the first time since  November. Unfortunately I have been down with a bad back and have been unable to  push the plane out of the hangar so it has been a long lay up. My solar panel  which kept the battery topped up all through the summer has obviously failed to  produce the goods during winter so I had to get the battery charged. No power in  my hangar in the middle of a field. Replaced the battery, pulled the prop  through by hand to move the oil around a bit,  full   choke, and fired her up and she started with no trouble. Nice to hear  everything sounding right.

 Incredible what can go wrong. I have a carburettor  warming device with a 3 way switch. Centre for OFF and up for one warming  strength and down for extra boost. Just sitting in the cockpit warming up the  engine and generally twiddling switches I moved the carb heat switch and it  stuck, and wouldn`t return to centre. Totally solid. Unbelievable. What the hell  can go wrong with a simple device like that? Now I shall have to  disassemble the entire console to replace it. Nothing is  simple.

 Away in South Africa all of March so it will be  early Summer before I can get flying again.

 However, I understand that there is someone  offering ultralight flights over Victoria Falls so I shall give that a  go.

  

 Watch that weight. I reckon the Kolb is designed to  take more punishment than you are and adding extra struts etc., is a waste  of time and just produces more for the engine to drag about. Unless, of course  if you intend to fly in the John the Hawk style with enough fuel to go around  the world, tents and survival gear and enough armament to start WW3 (Joke,  John) then  you may well decide that you need a stronger airframe than  standard. But you need to know as much about planes as John does before you  start overloading.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat 

   [quote][b]

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: weight question

Pat, we can go up to 1320 lbs before we lose our sport pilot privilege.Otherwise an experimental can be as big as we want it.  P&W 985 anyone?

BB



On 22, Feb 2009, at 1:15 PM, pj.ladd wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   when I did the weight and 

balance for the plane ,the empty weight came out to 596.2 lbs.>>

 

Hi there,

just for interest here in the UK there is a strict limit on weight or the plane ceases to be an ultralight. That means different pilot licences, plane licenses , maintenance schedules, insurance etc., as above the limit it automatically becomes a light aircraft. We therefore do not embark on `beefing up` or a bit extra here and there on the basis that `it isn`t much extra weight`. It would automatically make our planes illegal. Of course if you intend to

My Xtra with Jabi 2200 with full oil but no fuel came in at 548 lbs. 240lbs on the mains and 66lbs on the tailwheel.

Today has been  really Springlike. Blue sky , light cumulus, 5 knots wind. I actually ran the engine for the first time since November. Unfortunately I have been down with a bad back and have been unable to push the plane out of the hangar so it has been a long lay up. My solar panel which kept the battery topped up all through the summer has obviously failed to produce the goods during winter so I had to get the battery charged. No power in my hangar in the middle of a field. Replaced the battery, pulled the prop through by hand to move the oil around a bit,  full  choke, and fired her up and she started with no trouble. Nice to hear everything sounding right.

Incredible what can go wrong. I have a carburettor warming device with a 3 way switch. Centre for OFF and up for one warming strength and down for extra boost. Just sitting in the cockpit warming up the engine and generally twiddling switches I moved the carb heat switch and it stuck, and wouldn`t return to centre. Totally solid. Unbelievable. What the hell can go wrong with a simple device like that? Now I shall have to disassemble the entire console to replace it. Nothing is simple.

Away in South Africa all of March so it will be early Summer before I can get flying again.

However, I understand that there is someone offering ultralight flights over Victoria Falls so I shall give that a go.

 

Watch that weight. I reckon the Kolb is designed to take more punishment than you are and adding extra struts etc., is a waste of time and just produces more for the engine to drag about. Unless, of course if you intend to fly in the John the Hawk style with enough fuel to go around the world, tents and survival gear and enough armament to start WW3 (Joke, John) then  you may well decide that you need a stronger airframe than standard. But you need to know as much about planes as John does before you start overloading.

 

Cheers

 

Pat

 

Cheers

 

Pat 

 	  Quote: 	
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ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: weight question

Hi Pat,

I just got finished clearing the airport of 1 foot of snow  with 30 mph winds today so it will be a bit before mine comes out too! When I called Brian the other day and questioned him on the fact that he flew the plane with full fuel (20 gal) and 2 230 lbs people on board and he said they took out of a 1200 feet strip with trees all around and he said it flew great.When I asked him bout being over weight ,he and Dennis both said not a problem and set the max at 1150. I am going to confirm this again tomorrow with Dennis. How is the performance on our M3? 



chris

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: weight question

we can go up to 1320 lbs before we lose our sport  pilot privilege.>>

  

 Hi Robert, presumably you are talking MAUW there.  Our weight limit is also MAUW but there is a standard allowance for 2 crew and  full fuel and as  the posts  were talking about empty  weight  I did also. Our other limits are wing loading and stall  speed.  On our measuring basis with the Jabi fitted we only got the  stalling speed down to our limits by fitting VG`s. With the 582 they are not  needed, although some pilots fit them just to get that extra bit of control at  low speed and that drop in stalling speed.  You can see that although I  have no doubt that the Kolb will fly at a higher weight it will of course put  the stalling speed up and that will be outside our parameters.

 I have a 2 blade wooden prop fitted  157cms/98cms

 Figures from my last Annual check.

 Climb 55mph at 2800 revs. 80 secs from 1000ft to  2000ft

 Stall speed. Power off, flaps up 35mph

 Natural buffet speed.  38mph IAS

  

 Dived at one third throttle at 95 mph

 Max RPM in dive 2700

  

 Get the snow cleared and get flying.

 Cheers

  

 Pat



   [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: weight question

Patrick:

  

 How do you determine "natural buffet  speed?

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]      

 Natural buffet speed.  38mph    IAS

    

   Pat

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:38 am Post subject: weight question

That's how fast you can make it to the "all you can eat buffet"har

BB



On 23, Feb 2009, at 9:25 AM, John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Patrick:

 

How do you determine "natural buffet speed?

 

john h

mkIII

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Natural buffet speed.  38mph IAS

 

Pat

 

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 [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:56 am Post subject: weight question

How do you determine "natural buffet  speed?>>

  

 Hi John,

  

 it is just a note of the speed at which the plane  shakes to  tell you to drop the nose a tad or you wil stall. It is just one  of the boxes that needs ticking for the annual check.

  

 No idea what use is made of the information. I  suppose if you had a plane which gave no warning of an incipient stall it would  be worth knowing.

  

 Pat 

   [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: weight question

Patrick:

  

 The reason I asked was, never flown any Kolb that  gave any warning of an impending stall except the airspeed indicator.  They  go into the mush with no warning, except ASI, and by this time you are  stalling.

  

 Maybe some VG equipped Kolbs give a prestall  buffet, similar to a Cessna.  I don't know.  The only Kolb I flew with  VG's gave no warning.  Seemed to stall like all the other  Kolbs.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  

 [quote]    it is just a note of the speed at which the plane shakes    to  tell you to drop the nose a tad or you wil stall. It is just one of    the boxes that needs ticking for the annual check.

    

   No idea what use is made of the information. I    suppose if you had a plane which gave no warning of an incipient stall it    would be worth knowing.

    

   Pat 

 	  Quote: 	
		   	
[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: Re: weight question

I don't feel a prestall buffet in my Kolb, even with VG's.  The stall is very hard to make happen, the AOA has to be ridiculously high, but when it gets to just below 30 MPH, the stall just happens, the nose drops a bit, and its flying again almost immediately.   Everything is smooth and controls are effective before and throughout the stall.  I have only stalled my Kolb power off, and with very little power ( around 3000 RPM )... With anywhere near full or even cruise power, the nose would be so high that a stall would become an aerobatic maneuver.  



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: weight question

never flown any Kolb that gave any warning of an  impending stall>>

  

 Hi John,

 you are quite right as usual. My Xtra just mushes  at the approach of a stall. I have never mistreated it badly enough to suddenly  fall into a full stall and I suspect I would have to be very hamhanded to make  it do so. However the annual check form is not only designed for Kolbs but for  the full range of microlights, light aircraft, vintage aircraft  and kit  planes which the LAA oversees on behalf of the CAA. If I don`t put  something in the box they will send it back.

  

 I am a bit surprised that your plane when fully  loaded with all your long distance gear doesn`t  sharpen up the usual mush into a `proper` stall. Just shows  well Homers wing performs,  a real weight lifter.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: weight question

Patrick:

  

 Another reason why I put so much faith in this old  bird to get me there and get me home.

  

 Yes, Homer's wing is a "real" weight  lifter.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		      I am a bit surprised that your plane when fully loaded    with all your long distance gear doesn`t  sharpen up the usual mush into a `proper` stall. Just shows well Homers    wing performs,  a real weight lifter.

    

   Cheers

    

   Pat

 	  Quote:

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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