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Discussions about the 601XL

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lwhitlow

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Valparaiso Indiana

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: Discussions about the 601XL

I realize that all of engage in Armchair engineering and by posing some of these questions, answers are going to com in all over the lot but.....



Lets get the talk going here.  I'm not tryin to second guess the engineers and Zenith while they work the issue but I think some opinions and observations could do us all good to understand the implications of any change or fix



So  My first question is, Almost every one notes that the 601XL is sensitive to very sensitive in pitch, and per a revised drawing from Zenith we have an elevator stop now.



But why not just change the cable geometry to decrease overall movement of the elevator (think moving the cable attachments closer together either at the elevator end or the sticks end or both)??  If this was done would you still have enough control throw at the slow end of the speed range??   This would make it less likely to create a large input that could damage structure.



Secondly  Has a 601XL wing been static tested to destruction?? Are there pictures???  Where were the failure points??  I'm not saying simply beef up that point but it would help all of us to understand what the failure mode looks like so we could start to understand the forces at play here.



Enough questions to start with  Lets all play nice with our answers.



Larry Whitlow

601XL N69102 (reserved)

Flying this Summer   COUNT ON IT!!!

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jaybannist(at)cs.com
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: Discussions about the 601XL

Larry,

 

 I think you have the geometry wrong.  Moving the cable attach points closer to the hinge line would make it MORE sensitive, not less. However, I really don't think there is enough room to move the attach points further out, either at the forward bellcrank or at the elevator horns.  I would settle for something that would make it progressively harder to move the stick the further you move it from neutral. That wouldn't reduce the elevator effectiveness, but it would make it harder to move the stick to extreme positions, fore or aft.

 

 Jay Bannister

 Do not archive

 

   

 

   

 

 --

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notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: Discussions about the 601XL

Like a parallel of bungees ?

 [quote]   ---

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lwhitlow

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Valparaiso Indiana

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Discussions about the 601XL

Thanks Jay  Its tough to picture the geometry in my head  I should have drawn it out  



 But if you moved them all in at both ends wouldn't the travel be less??



Larry 



 	  jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: 	
		  Larry,

 

 I think you have the geometry wrong.  Moving the cable attach points closer to the hinge line would make it MORE sensitive, not less. However, I really don't think there is enough room to move the attach points further out, either at the forward bellcrank or at the elevator horns.  I would settle for something that would make it progressively harder to move the stick the further you move it from neutral. That wouldn't reduce the elevator effectiveness, but it would make it harder to move the stick to extreme positions, fore or aft.

 

 Jay Bannister

 Do not archive

 

   

 

   

 

 --

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psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: Discussions about the 601XL

Hi Larry,



I think the answer to your elevator question is that it brings in the 

"Law of unintended consequences".



While reducing the likelihood of a pilot induced wing separation your 

change would also reduce the effectiveness of pilot control of pitch 

- particularly at low speeds.  One of the Zodiac's really great 

features is that it doesn't lose control authority at near stall 

speeds like most of the spam cans (part 23 planes) do.



I believe there are ways to fix the stick gradient problem without 

impacting the low speed control authority.  That seems like the ideal 

choice to me.



Paul

XL grounded

do not archive

At 06:11 PM 4/23/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  But why not just change the cable geometry to decrease overall 

movement of the elevator (think moving the cable attachments closer 

together either at the elevator end or the sticks end or both)??

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