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Jabiru Powered MKIII
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zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

LS,

   the 1200hr TBO did not help the 175 much.It's an 0-300,150 hp that makes an extra 25hp if you spin it up another 500rpm.Never saw one in a 170,it needed that hump in the cowling to clear the gearcase.

 

   

 

   

 

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zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Denny, they claim 85 for the 2200 (at)3300rpm I believe,but the 3300 is still 20hp per cyl.Mine only shows 3100on the tack on takeoff,so who knows what it's really making.

 

   G.Aman

 

   

 

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rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:04 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Gary,

 I have heard it said that the early 2200 only  produced around 70-75hp, but the new ones are a strong 85hp.

  

 Denny

 [quote]   ---

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:14 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Hauck's right; static test doesn't mean much.

  

 Friend of mine w/ FS II, 503 w/ B box, 2.58:1 & 66" wood Tennessee prop  out-pulled me by 20 lbs.  Mine is FS II w/ C box 3.47:1 & WD 3 blade  taper tip 68".  My plane at gross outweighs his by 70 lbs, yet I outclimb  & outrun him.  Better fuel mileage, too.

  

 Howard  Shackleford

FS II

SC   

  In a message dated 4/30/2009 6:42:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The    first bit of info came from Steve Bennet at Great Plains Aircraft. He

 	  Quote: 	
		      did a apples to apples comparison test as close as he could with Warp 

    Drive, PowerFin, and IVO props. The IVO gave the least thrust, then Warp    

 Drive, then PowerFin giving the  most.



	

	




 Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar!

  [quote][b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII

 	  HShack(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  Well, If you expect anything to go thru the Powerfin & still fly  home-good luck [not saying anything about performance].

  

 Howard  Shackleford

FS II

	




The powerfins exploding when something goes through them is a little bit of an urban legend, tell the truth. Far more of them have eaten their share of rocks, parts, etc. and stayed together just fine than have blown up.



My powerfin F 2 blade on my PPC ate a screw out of the fan shroud on the 503 at full power and I didn't know anything had happened until the next preflight. Saw a white ding in the leading edge and the missing screw in the shroud. It ate some rocks here and there too, I just epoxied over the dings and kept on flying it.



His newer blades are even a little heftier and also weigh a bit more. I still have my spare 68" and its easy to see the blades are pretty stout despite their light weight.



This is strictly a fly more/worry less type situation as well, as the PF is a fine prop quality-wise. It's also the strongest pusher on the market by a little bit, tho I think the WD far and away has the widest speed range....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII

 	  HShack(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  Hauck's right; static test doesn't mean much.

  

 Friend of mine w/ FS II, 503 w/ B box, 2.58:1 & 66" wood Tennessee prop  out-pulled me by 20 lbs.  Mine is FS II w/ C box 3.47:1 & WD 3 blade  taper tip 68".  My plane at gross outweighs his by 70 lbs, yet I outclimb  & outrun him.  Better fuel mileage, too.

  

 Howard  Shackleford

FS II

	




Agreed, the static thrust isn't too good of a measurement of how the prop will perform with some air going through the prop disk, on the plane etc.



I.e my WD 68" I can hold back with the brakes in a static runup, but I couldn't hold back the IVO 66" at full power at all. It would scoot down the ramp even holding the brakes hard as I could.



But the WD outclimbes the IVO by somewhere around 100fpm, where it's fully unstalled. 



The speed range and top speed of the WD continues to shock and amaze me, giving almost 100mph at about 5100 rpm. This required full throttle with the IVO at about 5300 to go that fast. 



BTW, the harmonics do almost go away at steady state 5070-5100 rpm cruise right as I approach 100mph too.... 



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:16 am Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

> My powerfin F 2 blade on my PPC ate a screw out of the fan shroud on the 

503 at full power and I didn't know anything had happened until the next 

preflight. Saw a white ding in the leading edge and the missing screw in the 

shroud. It ate some rocks here and there too, I just epoxied over the dings 

and kept on flying it.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 > This is strictly a fly more/worry less type situation as well, as the PF 
	


is a fine prop quality-wise. It's also the strongest pusher on the market by 

a little bit, tho I think the WD far and away has the widest speed range....

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 LS


	




Lucien:



A small screw and a few pebbles should not take out any prop, fiberglass, 

wood, or carbon fiber.



I don't know what went through my GSC 3 blade wooden prop with urethane 

leading edges on my 582 powered mkIII, but it took out all three blades that 

impacted on the tailboom (rendering the tailboom unserviceable).  Probably 

the double K&N air filter, but I will never know for sure.  Shook so hard 

before it shut down it slung both carbs and broke the starter off the bell 

housing.  Only thing holding the starter on was the battery cable.  Throttle 

and Choke Cables were holding on the carbs.  Never did find the air cleaner. 

This happened at WOT while climbing for altitude.



That's when I decided I needed something a little more substantial to fly 

with because its job was to connect the engine to the air.



Again, WOT, put an 18" piece of 1.5" exhaust pipe through my Warp Drive. 

Pip had a 180 and a 90 degree bend in it.  Leading edge of one blade caught 

the pipe.  Immediately got a new vibration.  Flew to Wetumpka Airport, 

landed, inspected the damage, got back in the mkIII and flew 11 miles home.



Should have taken photos of the old blades I recently sent back to WD.  They 

were dinged up on all blades when I made the flight to MV last year.  I 

prearranged with John W to have some urethane tape at MV to cover up most of 

the damage.  A couple times I caught blades on the edge of the tin roof on 

the front of my hanger when pushing the airplane into the hanger.  That 

always hurts me more than the blades.  Especially when it feels like a wheel 

is caught on something and I push harder before I realize what I am doing.



I don't know which blade is the toughest, but I feel confident what I fly 

with will get me home.



I never claimed my WD prop is the best climber and cruiser, but I am happy 

with it, and have been for many years and many flying hours.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

> The speed range and top speed of the WD continues to shock and amaze me, 

giving almost 100mph at about 5100 rpm. This required full throttle with the 

IVO at about 5300 to go that fast.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 > LS
	


Do you have the WD pitched to turn 5,500 rpm at WOT straight and level 

flight?



Only way I know to pitch a ground adjustable prop for best climb and cruise.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  

Do you have the WD pitched to turn 5,500 rpm at WOT straight and level 

flight?



Only way I know to pitch a ground adjustable prop for best climb and cruise.



john h

mkIII 	




Last I tried WOT in level flight It ran about 5650.



It's now set between 13.5 an 14 degs of pitch, which Daryl said was just about the ideal setting for my general speed range and what I generally want to see. 



I get just under 5400 at an 80mph climb and 5300 slowed down to 65mph which is my Vy. 



The whole overall performance is just fantastic.....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Gary,

so far I am very impressed  with the Jabiru I like the way it runs,its smooth and seems quiet to me....and from hearing what these other guys are getting with the 912's,it seems pretty equal to them...I will have test flight numbers up here soon. I think the noise these things make are just the nature of the beast...pushers are noisier and thats it.My M3X is already twice as good or better than my 172 .I am really looking forword to the test flights!



chris ambrose

M3X/jab

N327CS

Fran Losey

Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Chris,



I am just starting my MKIII X and am very curious on the Jabiru, as the Rotax is above my pay grade at this point....  I would like to hear your experiences.  Do you have a builder site?



Fran Losey

Fran.losey(at)alber.com

---

_________________
Fran Losey
N62FL (reserved)

loseyf@comcast.net

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

I think the noise these things make are just the nature of the 

beast...pushers are noisier and thats it.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 chris ambrose


	


Bruce Chesnut flew the Kolb Sport Flyer at Sun and Fun this year.  As you 

all know, it is a tractor powered with a 912uls and pulled along by a Warp 

Drive 3 blade fast taper prop.  The first flyby Bruce made I thought he had 

the throttle pulled back to idle, but he was maintaining altitude and 

airspeed.  The Flyer was in stealth mode compared to a MKIII pusher.  A 

very, very quiet airplane.



However, there is a price to pay for stealth mode.  That is a small 

windshield, high glare shield, and always looking through the prop.



MKIII has extremely good visibility.  Easy to get spoiled flying a Kolb 

pusher.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Chris, 

  After you get some time on it,you can work at the noise control.I'll share some things that I tried that worked and some that didn't,maybe save you some time.I like the Jabiru but for the prop noise.I can control it IN the cockpit,but the neighbors are gonna have to live with it.

           Good luck with the test flying!

                         G.Aman

 

   

 

   

 

 --

zeprep251(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

John,

    My friend has a Savanah 912uls IVO medium prop.The kit came from Italy and meets European noise control standards.It is unbelievably quiet when it flies overhead.

                         G.Aman

 

   

 

   

 

 --

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Another alternative is the Geo motor. You can check it out on



---  http://www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml  ---

I would suggest that you buy the completed kit and specify the 1.3 liter 16 valves.

Vassily is pretty good at getting the complete unit, but not as good at public relations.  



I opted for the 1.3 16 valves double overhead cams, rated at around 110 hp, I can always de-rate it if I have to.



You will need to modify the mount from that single tube rotax mount but its easy to do I have the photos from my modification.



Ron (at) KFHU



==================

---- loseyf(at)comcast.net wrote: 



=============




Chris,



I am just starting my MKIII X and am very curious on the Jabiru, as the Rotax is above my pay grade at this point....  I would like to hear your experiences.  Do you have a builder site?



Fran Losey

Fran.losey(at)alber.com

---

Fran Losey

Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Thanks Ron I will take a look.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



--

_________________
Fran Losey
N62FL (reserved)

loseyf@comcast.net

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Fran



I you are looking for a very inexpensive engine option for a Kolb MKIII, one 

that truly performs as well as a Rotax 912 and can swing a composite three 

bladed prop you really need to consider a Redrive VW.



Do not archive



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



---

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

gross wt?



 Yup,Russ

 thats the one.

 Mine is limited to 950 lbs gross. as will all  Xtra`s built here. To fix the weight to which the plane must be built there  is a standard  allowance for fuel and 2 crew. The maximum for ANY a/c to qualify as a `microlight` is 992lbs.   Over that and you are a Very Light Aircraft with entirely different  rules.

  

 Unfortunately you cannot take any design and build  it to the 992lb limit, other considerations come into play such as wing loading  and stalling speed. That is why I am only allowed 950 and not 992. and also why  I needed the vortex generators to get my stalling speed down to the  line.

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII

 	  NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: 	
		  Fran



I you are looking for a very inexpensive engine option for a Kolb MKIII, one 

that truly performs as well as a Rotax 912 and can swing a composite three 

bladed prop you really need to consider a Redrive VW.



Do not archive



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



--- 	




Rick,



Have you seen that Slide Carb thing for the VW Aerovee engine ?  What do you think about the slide carb as opposed to a traditional carb ?  Also, which company has the most reliable VW conversion ?   I see they are selling Nikasil cylinders, they are lighter, are they a good idea ?



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:05 pm Post subject: Jabiru Powered MKIII

Mike



I really don't know anything about the aerovee slide carb. Seems like I 

heard Steve Bennet at Great Plains talk about that type of Carb and he 

wasn't impressed. I think the best carb for redrive VWs is the progressive 

webber. They aren't inflight adjustable but are very tunable and efficient.



I would think the best VW engine builder is Great Plains for the redrive 

engines. Again talking to Steve Bennet the Nikasil cylinders are ten pounds 

lighter than the cast iron cylinders and transfers four times the heat. They 

are a whopping $600 for a set of pistons, rings, and cylinders or three 

times the cast iron set, but well worth the cost. I wish they had been 

available when I rebuilt my engine.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



---

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