Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Help me here.....If I choose to Not to get my medical renewed....am I able to fly that airplane with my drivers license legally? 



chris ambrose

m3x/jab

N327CS

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Assuming you didn't add an in flight adjustable prop or declared a gross weight of greater that 1320 lb. you'll be fine.



Rick



On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 7:49 PM, ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>

  

 Help me here.....If I choose to Not to get my medical renewed....am I able to fly that airplane with my drivers license legally?

 

 chris ambrose

 m3x/jab

 N327CS

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244305#244305

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

Kirkds

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Michigan

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule_synopsis.html

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Thank you Rick....That is what I thought too,but when the FAA guy finished inspected the airplane last Wednesday  we talked about that and he said I needed a pilots license to fly it...???  He said it didn't fall in that category ...not wanting to argue with the guy who was going to sign off my airplane ,I decided to find out later,as maybe he was mistaken . I looked it up in the FAR's and it looked like it fit that category to me too.



chris ambrose

m3x/jab

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Does it have anything to do with the January,2008 thing??



chris

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Sport Pilot is a pilot's license.



The dropped medical requirement applies to all categories, private,  

commercial, (ok not airship and heli)

as a default rating equivalent to Sport Pilot.



They refer to it as a "privilege".  As an example, my commercial heli  

license notes that I have

private fixed wing privilege.

BB

back hurts tonight after rasslin' with that left gear leg.  Gotter in  

though.



On 16, May 2009, at 11:15 PM, ces308 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thank you Rick....That is what I thought too,but when the FAA guy  

 finished inspected the airplane last Wednesday  we talked about  

 that and he said I needed a pilots license to fly it...???  He said  

 it didn't fall in that category ...not wanting to argue with the  

 guy who was going to sign off my airplane ,I decided to find out  

 later,as maybe he was mistaken . I looked it up in the FAR's and it  

 looked like it fit that category to me too.



 chris ambrose

 m3x/jab





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 44320#244320

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

 	  ces308 wrote: 	
		  Does it have anything to do with the January,2008 thing??



chris 	




Jan 2008 was just when one of the ways you could get an ELSA a/w certificate expired - the so called "grandfather" clause where you could get practically anything that had never before held an a/w certificate into ELSA. This was to accomodate the "fat-UL" planes.



This would include a Kolb built from a kit - ELSA was available for those also. 



Now, that option is no longer available, ELSA is only available through the SLSA first and then a bunch more crapola method, which is still fairly uncommon (tho some of the imported trikes like the Airborne have this available now).



As for whether you can fly a plane under the sport pilot rule (i.e. if you're a no medical private pilot like myself), the plane only has to fit within the LSA parameters (speed, gross weight, etc). It doesn't matter what kind of a/w certificate it has - it can be ELSA, SLSA, Experimental AB, Experimental Exhibition, standard category or anything else legal. As long as the plane meets the LSA limitations, you can fly it under the SP rule with a SP certificate or higher (and a valid driver's license).



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Chris



I assume you licensed your plane as a experimental amateur built.



I think what the guy from the FAA meant was that you need a pilots license 

as apposed to no license needed for a ultralight. I also assume you have a 

single engine land license or better and you are not going to do that 3rd 

class medical thing any more.



With the conditions that other Rick mentioned your plane is in the light 

sport category and with a regular pilot's license or light sport license you 

can legally fly it with out that medical. I have a regular license and quit 

taking my 3rd class medicals almost three years ago. I have since taken a 

check ride and confirmed there was no problem. Also took the check ride in a 

172, I just can't fly one as pilot in command without the medical.



Let us know what flyins you may be flying to this summer. If my runway ever 

dries out I may try to meet you at one or more. There is a good one at Purdy 

field over by Durand every year. I will likely also fly to Oshkosh this 

summer.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



---

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Thank you all ! For awhile there I thought I was going crazy (though my wife will confirm that ) ! 

Rick,let me know where you will be going and if I can make it at all,I will be there.I will look up the Purdy one.I will be at the Lake City  flyin next Sunday...



One more thing...is any of the hours clock of taxiing before it was inspected count on the 40 hrs?



chris ambrose

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:54 am Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Chris,



No. Taxi time does not count, officially. You could run up a lot of hours on your tach or Hobbs meter that way and never have test FLOWN it. But there is no way to police that nor is there any action for you to take once you reach the end of your 40 hour phase one test period. In that sense it is an honor system. 



FWIW:

The FAA's definition of time in service means the time the aircraft is actually in flight. So neither tach time nor Hobbs time are truly accurate measures of time-in-service, which is used a lot for time limited maintenance actions. Some commercial aircraft have meters that depend upon airspeed or gear actuation or squat switches to get closer to actual flight time.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Depends on how devious you are. 



Rick

do not archive



On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:29 PM, ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>

  

 Thank you all ! For awhile there I thought I was going crazy (though my wife will confirm that ) !

 Rick,let me know where you will be going and if I can make it at all,I will be there.I will look up the Purdy one.I will be at the Lake City  flyin next Sunday...

 

 One more thing...is any of the hours clock of taxiing before it was inspected count on the 40 hrs?

 

 chris ambrose

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244334#244334

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

Kirkds

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Michigan

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

 	  NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: 	
		  . There is a good one at Purdy 

field over by Durand every year. I will likely also fly to Oshkosh this 

summer.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



--- 	




When is that flyin at Purdy? I'll try to make that one.

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

I just check on the MULA web site http://www.michiganultralight.com/ and 

that event at Purdy Field at Durand, MI hasn't been scheduled yet.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



---

sspence801(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Guys:

  

 The MULA newsletter can be found (at):http://www.michiganultralight.com/newsletter/FW52009/May09.pdf , at end says August 15 is date for Purdy Field flyin.



  

  

 Steve Spence

 Mark3X 912-S

 Auburn Hills, MI



   From: Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 12:44:39 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net (NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net)>



I just check on the MULA web site http://www.michiganultralight.com/ and 

that event at Purdy Field at Durand, MI hasn't been scheduled yet.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



---

fmguidi(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Maybe you fellas can help me too.

I've inherited a Firestar MK I w/Rotax 366 engine from my father-in-law.

It has been trailer for a long period of time since he hadn't flown it in about 10 years.

He had ran the engine regularly from my understanding. I has about 300 hrs on it.

Fabric looks okay with no major issues. Chute will obliviously need re-packing. Engine will need a overhaul.

I'm pretty sure it's not registered and my question is what is required to get it registered as a light sport aircraft? Is a deadline approaching?

Thanks

Frank 



Time: 08:15:45 PM PST US

Subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>

Thank you Rick....That is what I thought too,but when the FAA guy finished inspected

the airplane last Wednesday  we talked about that and he said I needed a

pilots license to fly it...???  He said it didn't fall in that category ...not

wanting to argue with the guy who was going to sign off my airplane ,I decided

to find out later,as maybe he was mistaken . I looked it up in the FAR's and

it looked like it fit that category to me too.



chris ambrose

m3x/jab

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

Frank, The deadlline for conversion to experimental light sport passed in Jan 31,2008 UNLESS you have a registration issued before that date, then the deadline is extended to Jan 31, 2010. If your father in law has a builders log you could try getting it through as experimental amatuer built, but since the aircraft has been flown as an ultralight you probably don't have much chance of getting that one either. If you don't care about going much of anyplace and just flying around the patch occasionally you could go experimental exhibition and hope for an inspector with a liberal bent toward the category since they can write some stiff restrictions into your operating limitations. Best bet is look up your local EAA chapter and see if they can help. They might be able to point you toward an inspector who'll help. 



Rick



On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM, F. M. Guidi <fmguidi(at)yahoo.com (fmguidi(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "F. M. Guidi" <fmguidi(at)yahoo.com (fmguidi(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 

 Maybe you fellas can help me too.

 I've inherited a Firestar MK I w/Rotax 366 engine from my father-in-law.

 It has been trailer for a long period of time since he hadn't flown it in about 10 years.

 He had ran the engine regularly from my understanding. I has about 300 hrs on it.

 Fabric looks okay with no major issues. Chute will obliviously need re-packing. Engine will need a overhaul.

 I'm pretty sure it's not registered and my question is what is required to get it registered as a light sport aircraft? Is a deadline approaching?

 Thanks

 Frank

 

 Time: 08:15:45 PM PST US

 Subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

 From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>

 

 

 Thank you Rick....That is what I thought too,but when the FAA guy finished inspected

 the airplane last Wednesday  we talked about that and he said I needed a

 pilots license to fly it...???  He said it didn't fall in that category ...not

 wanting to argue with the guy who was going to sign off my airplane ,I decided

 to find out later,as maybe he was mistaken . I looked it up in the FAR's and

 it looked like it fit that category to me too.

 

 chris ambrose

 m3x/jab

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

At 08:13 PM 5/22/2009, Richard Girard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  ...If your father in law has a builders log you could try getting it 

through as experimental amatuer built, but since the aircraft has been 

flown as an ultralight you probably don't have much chance of getting that 

one either...


	


I could be wrong, but I believe you can register an aircraft as E-AB 

regardless of whether it's been flown as an ultralight... I know of a 

couple of Quicksilvers like that, built and flown in the 1980's and 

recently registered E-AB, not E-LSA.  As I understand it, the deadline 

applied only to aircraft that didn't meet the 51% rule.  Of course it may 

depend on the local DAR...



-Dana



--

  Does fuzzy logic tickle?

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  

I could be wrong, but I believe you can register an aircraft as E-AB 

regardless of whether it's been flown as an ultralight... I know of a 

couple of Quicksilvers like that, built and flown in the 1980's and 

recently registered E-AB, not E-LSA.  As I understand it, the deadline 

applied only to aircraft that didn't meet the 51% rule.  Of course it may 

depend on the local DAR...



-Dana

	




As long as it was at least 51% built by an amateur for his/her own rec./ed., and it has never held another airworthiness certificate before, EAB is available. 



My plane was like that, it flew for a while under the exemptions as a UL trainer after it was first built. After some time and even an engine swap it was put under EAB.



All the so-called "lawn ornaments" supposedly now unflyable because of the expiration of the "grandfather" ELSA option are nothing of the kind - they are also eligible for EAB if they meet the rules.......  Just like always, this didn't change with the "gELSA" expiration........



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

[quote]   > 

As long as it was at least 51% built by an amateur for    his/her own rec./ed., and it has never held another airworthiness certificate    before, EAB is available. 



LS



--------

LS

Titan II    SS





I believe that they can still be    registered as EAB even if you did not build the 51 percent, you just can't get    the repairman's certificate. 

   Larry 

[b]

_________________
do not archive

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Mark 3 Xtra considered Light Sport?

[quote="lcottrell"] 	  Quote: 	
		   

I believe that they can still be    registered as EAB even if you did not build the 51 percent, you just can't get    the repairman's certificate. 

   Larry 

	




Right - but it has to have been 51% amateur built by _somebody_ to get the AW cert, you still have to prove that. But yeah you don't have to be the original builder to get the AW cert.



In some cases, it's so obvious that it had to have been built from a kit by an amateur and 51% or more too, that you can still sometimes satisfy a DAR without a builder's log or a very minimal one. I.e. an older wire-braced quick that simply couldn't have been built commercially or by the factory by any stretch of the imagination......

I've heard of EAB a/w certs being issued under circumstances like this.....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum