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hot starts

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gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: hot starts

For those flying with the IO-540 and who have a good deal of  

experience with hot starts.



Hot starts are defined as 80+F on the ramp, and trying to start from  

10 - 30 minutes after landing with engine at normal operating temps.



I've been using Tim's method, but not always successful in 1) getting  

it running and then 2) keeping it running.



Yesterday, once I did get it running, it was surging badly and turning  

the boost pump on seemed to settle it out.



If you have a tried and true technique on getting it started when it's  

hot, please share.



Thanks - grumpy

N184JM



do not archive

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject: hot starts

I don't know about the IO540, but suspect it is like the IO360 I now 

fly. Any start other than 1st start of the day or when plane has sat 

long enough for engine to get back to cool to touch crankcase is a hot 

start.

I just leave mixture at cutoff, use maybe 1/8 to 1/4" throttle, start 

cranking and after 4 blades slowly add mixture until it catches. Works 

99.94% of time.



Miller John wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 For those flying with the IO-540 and who have a good deal of experience 

 with hot starts.

 

 Hot starts are defined as 80+F on the ramp, and trying to start from 10 

 - 30 minutes after landing with engine at normal operating temps.

 

 I've been using Tim's method, but not always successful in 1) getting it 

 running and then 2) keeping it running.

 

 Yesterday, once I did get it running, it was surging badly and turning 

 the boost pump on seemed to settle it out.

 

 If you have a tried and true technique on getting it started when it's 

 hot, please share.

 

 Thanks - grumpy

 N184JM

 

 do not archive

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: hot starts

Here is what works for me..... 90% of the time:



First, make sure you either have an impulse coupler on the mag or a

"Shower of Sparks".  Rebuilt engines, may not have a mag with an

impulse coupler.



With mixture full rich, run the fuel pump for couple of seconds.



Push the throttle forward passed 1/2 way point, mixture lean, then

crank.  At this point, my engine coughs, runs a few blades and dies.

I repeat the same procedure again and it fires up.



If it does not cough on the first try, it is a sign for me that the

engine has cooled sufficient enough that I need to do the above

procedure with the mixture rich.  In which case, the engine does not

cough but fires right up.



I am sure there are as many hot start procedures s there are IO-540.

Find what works for your engine.



On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Miller John<gengrumpy(at)aol.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 For those flying with the IO-540 and who have a good deal of experience with

 hot starts.



 Hot starts are defined as 80+F on the ramp, and trying to start from 10 - 30

 minutes after landing with engine at normal operating temps.



 I've been using Tim's method, but not always successful in 1) getting it

 running and then 2) keeping it running.



 Yesterday, once I did get it running, it was surging badly and turning the

 boost pump on seemed to settle it out.



 If you have a tried and true technique on getting it started when it's hot,

 please share.



 Thanks - grumpy

 N184JM



 do not archive




	


-- 

Rob Kermanj

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject: hot starts

I use this procedure unless the CHTs are ambient.



This always works for me. For hot starts we pretend it's a turbine. Throttle

cracked, mixture idle cutoff. Run boost pump with mixture in cutoff for a

few seconds. Ignition on for the starting magneto and crank. Smoothly move

the mixture from idle cutoff to rich as the engine fires. Second magneto on

then boost pump to prevent any surging. Flooded start same procedure but

throttle full open. As it fires, second magneto on and retard throttle

quickly. Boost pump on to prevent surging. 



--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: hot starts

I would not say that I have a lot of experience....but I will throw my 2

cents in.....



Two weekends ago I flew 8 young eagle flights in a row.  Air temp, right at

80.  So I had a lot of hot starts.  Here is the method and it was not all

that great, but it did start the engine.



No Priming......

Throttle 1/2 inch

Mixture full lean

Crank the engine until it fires at least a little

Mixture rich

Advance throttle



If it is running.....big if....Advance the throttle to 1800 RPM or full if

it does not get to 1800 RPM

Run engine at high RPM for 20-30 seconds.



Turning on the pump did not help.



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080

--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: hot starts

That's the method I use, basically.   I'd say I've been 99.5%

successful with it.  I can maybe remember 5 starts in 495

hours that didn't go too well...and that was usually either

because I didn't richen it quick enough to keep it running,

or I flooded it after not richening it enough, by using the

pump.



I think it would work good for most people, as it's a common

method used on many lycomings in many makes and models, but,

I can only say for sure that it works well for me with:



IO-540

Lightspeed on Right side (top plugs)

Mag with impulse coupling on Left side

Precision Fuel Injection System



I personally think the lightspeed is probably what makes

this plane start so well compared to any other plane I've

flown.  I don't ususally get many blades passing by before

it's purring right along.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I don't know about the IO540, but suspect it is like the IO360 I now 

 fly. Any start other than 1st start of the day or when plane has sat 

 long enough for engine to get back to cool to touch crankcase is a hot 

 start.

 I just leave mixture at cutoff, use maybe 1/8 to 1/4" throttle, start 

 cranking and after 4 blades slowly add mixture until it catches. Works 

 99.94% of time.

 

 Miller John wrote:

> 

>

> For those flying with the IO-540 and who have a good deal of 

> experience with hot starts.

>

> Hot starts are defined as 80+F on the ramp, and trying to start from 

> 10 - 30 minutes after landing with engine at normal operating temps.

>

> I've been using Tim's method, but not always successful in 1) getting 

> it running and then 2) keeping it running.

>

> Yesterday, once I did get it running, it was surging badly and turning 

> the boost pump on seemed to settle it out.

>

> If you have a tried and true technique on getting it started when it's 

> hot, please share.

>

> Thanks - grumpy

> N184JM

>

> do not archive

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: hot starts

You are so correct, it will depend on fuel injection and ignition

setup. Airflow Performance or others with purge valve will be

different.

Precision injection does not need any priming, although it may help to

bump the boost pump to have pressure a second or two quicker than

enginge pump will provide it. Shower of sparks or equivalent with turn

or push to start ignition switch should have non-retard mag grounded

when start is activated.

I don't find the boost makes any difference with my Mooney's IO-360

for anything but cold starts where plenty of priming is needed.



On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Tim Olson<Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 That's the method I use, basically.   I'd say I've been 99.5%

 successful with it.  I can maybe remember 5 starts in 495

 hours that didn't go too well...and that was usually either

 because I didn't richen it quick enough to keep it running,

 or I flooded it after not richening it enough, by using the

 pump.



 I think it would work good for most people, as it's a common

 method used on many lycomings in many makes and models, but,

 I can only say for sure that it works well for me with:



 IO-540

 Lightspeed on Right side (top plugs)

 Mag with impulse coupling on Left side

 Precision Fuel Injection System



 I personally think the lightspeed is probably what makes

 this plane start so well compared to any other plane I've

 flown.  I don't ususally get many blades passing by before

 it's purring right along.



 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



 Kelly McMullen wrote:

>

> 

>

> I don't know about the IO540, but suspect it is like the IO360 I now fly.

> Any start other than 1st start of the day or when plane has sat long enough

> for engine to get back to cool to touch crankcase is a hot start.

> I just leave mixture at cutoff, use maybe 1/8 to 1/4" throttle, start

> cranking and after 4 blades slowly add mixture until it catches. Works

> 99.94% of time.

>

> Miller John wrote:

>>

>> 

>>

>> For those flying with the IO-540 and who have a good deal of experience

>> with hot starts.

>>

>> Hot starts are defined as 80+F on the ramp, and trying to start from 10 -

>> 30 minutes after landing with engine at normal operating temps.

>>

>> I've been using Tim's method, but not always successful in 1) getting it

>> running and then 2) keeping it running.

>>

>> Yesterday, once I did get it running, it was surging badly and turning

>> the boost pump on seemed to settle it out.

>>

>> If you have a tried and true technique on getting it started when it's

>> hot, please share.

>>

>> Thanks - grumpy

>> N184JM

>>

>> do not archive

>>

>>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: hot starts

My technique is similar to these.  I'm really happy with how well it works.  I've definitely been in hot-start hell with other planes.



I use this for hot or cold starts.  It works fine for both.  I usually have to crank a wee bit longer when it's hot.

 

Throttle full

Mixture rich

Boost on until PSI peaks, usually about 5 seconds

Mixture lean

Throttle open about 1/4 inch

Left mag on (SlickStart w/ retard points)

crank, then mixture s-l-o-w-l-y to full rich when it fires

 right mag on



Works like a charm.



Dave

just passed 400 hours



On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>

  

 That's the method I use, basically.   I'd say I've been 99.5e

 successful with it.  I can maybe remember 5 starts in 495

 hours that didn't go too well...and that was usually either

 because I didn't richen it quick enough to keep it running,

 or I flooded it after not richening it enough, by using the

 pump.

 

 I think it would work good for most people, as it's a common

 method used on many lycomings in many makes and models, but,

 I can only say for sure that it works well for me with:

 

 IO-540

 Lightspeed on Right side (top plugs)

 Mag with impulse coupling on Left side

 Precision Fuel Injection System

 

 I personally think the lightspeed is probably what makes

 this plane start so well compared to any other plane I've

 flown.  I don't ususally get many blades passing by before

 it's purring right along.

 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 

 

 

 Kelly McMullen wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

 

 I don't know about the IO540, but suspect it is like the IO360 I now fly. Any start other than 1st start of the day or when plane has sat long enough for engine to get back to cool to touch crankcase is a hot start.

  I just leave mixture at cutoff, use maybe 1/8 to 1/4" throttle, start cranking and after 4 blades slowly add mixture until it catches. Works 99.94% of time.

 

 Miller John wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>

 

 For those flying with the IO-540 and who have a good deal of experience with hot starts.

 

 Hot starts are defined as 80+F on the ramp, and trying to start from 10 - 30 minutes after landing with engine at normal operating temps.

 

 I've been using Tim's method, but not always successful in 1) getting it running and then 2) keeping it running.

 

 Yesterday, once I did get it running, it was surging badly and turning the boost pump on seemed to settle it out.

 

 If you have a tried and true technique on getting it started when it's hot, please share.

 

 Thanks - grumpy

 N184JM

 

 do not archive

 

 

 	


	


 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 

 



	


-- 

Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

  [quote][b]

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: hot starts

I had 10 young eagle flights two weeks ago, on a 75 Deg F day- Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)- Throttle - Wide Open- Mixture - Cutoff- Crank till it fires- Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))- Throttle - Close to high idleWorked for me - But not a real pretty start, but got the fan running Jim CN312F - 75 hours   [quote][b]

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: hot starts

Jim,  

            Next time try the exact same procedure but with the fuel pump on and see if it works better for you. To be clear…   

   

- Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)

 - Throttle - Wide Open

 - Mixture – Cutoff  

- Fuel Pump - On

 - Crank till it fires

 - Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))

 - Throttle - Close to high idle  

   

Robin  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Susan

 Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:19 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: hot starts  

  

   

I had 10 young eagle flights two weeks ago, on a 75 Deg F day

 

 - Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)

 - Throttle - Wide Open

 - Mixture - Cutoff

 - Crank till it fires

 - Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))

 - Throttle - Close to high idle

 

 Worked for me - But not a real pretty start, but got the fan running 

 

 Jim C

 N312F - 75 hours

 

 

    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
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9  

No virus found in this incoming message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 06/15/09 05:54:00  

      [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: hot starts

One thing I could add to the hot start commentary is that while

I do find hot starts to be no problem at all for me, the

engine does not run as smooth during taxi on a hot start.

I attribute this to vapor in the lines that builds up, but

I can't guarantee that I'm correct.  All I know is that

as I taxi, it burbles more than cold.  Once you pour the

coals on though, you have so much fuel flow I think the

added cool fuel flowing probably decreases the temps and

the vapor disappears, because it never affects my power

at higher throttle.....just leaned idle.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



Robin Marks wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jim,

 

             Next time try the exact same procedure but with the fuel 

 pump on and see if it works better for you. To be clear…

 

  

 

 - Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)

 - Throttle - Wide Open

 - Mixture – Cutoff

 

 - Fuel Pump - On

 - Crank till it fires

 - Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))

 - Throttle - Close to high idle

 

  

 

 Robin

 

  

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Susan

 *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:19 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: hot starts

 

  

 

 I had 10 young eagle flights two weeks ago, on a 75 Deg F day

 

 - Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)

 - Throttle - Wide Open

 - Mixture - Cutoff

 - Crank till it fires

 - Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))

 - Throttle - Close to high idle

 

 Worked for me - But not a real pretty start, but got the fan running

 

 Jim C

 N312F - 75 hours

 

 

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 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 06/15/09 05:54:00

 

 *

 

 

 *

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: hot starts

I just went through this with Don Rivera (at) Airflow Performance, and the 

roughness/surging during taxi with a hot engine is caused by the engine 

heating/vaporizing the fuel in the distribution lines from the spider to 

the cylinders. If you've got a plenum it also exacerbates the problem 

for obvious reasons. Depending on  fuel flows (at) Take Off  there is a 

possibility of going to smaller nozzles which increases the psi in the 

lines. insulating them only makes it worse according to Don, as it takes 

longer for the lines to cool.



Deems Davis N519PJ



Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 One thing I could add to the hot start commentary is that while

 I do find hot starts to be no problem at all for me, the

 engine does not run as smooth during taxi on a hot start.

 I attribute this to vapor in the lines that builds up, but

 I can't guarantee that I'm correct.  All I know is that

 as I taxi, it burbles more than cold.  Once you pour the

 coals on though, you have so much fuel flow I think the

 added cool fuel flowing probably decreases the temps and

 the vapor disappears, because it never affects my power

 at higher throttle.....just leaned idle.



 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



 Robin Marks wrote:

> Jim,

>

>             Next time try the exact same procedure but with the fuel 

> pump on and see if it works better for you. To be clear…

>

>  

>

> - Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)

> - Throttle - Wide Open

> - Mixture – Cutoff

>

> - Fuel Pump - On

> - Crank till it fires

> - Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))

> - Throttle - Close to high idle

>

>  

>

> Robin

>

>  

>

> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Susan

> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:19 AM

> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> *Subject:* Re: hot starts

>

>  

>

> I had 10 young eagle flights two weeks ago, on a 75 Deg F day

>

> - Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)

> - Throttle - Wide Open

> - Mixture - Cutoff

> - Crank till it fires

> - Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))

> - Throttle - Close to high idle

>

> Worked for me - But not a real pretty start, but got the fan running

>

> Jim C

> N312F - 75 hours

> * *

>

> * *

>

> **

>

> **

>

> **

>

> **

>

> **

>

> **

>

> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*

>

> **

>

> **

>

> **

>

> *http://forums.matronics.com*

>

> **

>

> **

>

> **

>

> **

>

> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*

>

> **

>

> * *

>

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> 06/15/09 05:54:00

>

> *

> *

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: hot starts

I agree with Tim.  I taxi at 1400 after a hot start or else the engine may

not even keep running.  After several minutes it gets better.



Also, over the winter I worked on oil temp and baffling.  I am not committed

to saying I fixed my high oil temp problem, it has been to cool here so far

this year, but it is looking like I did.  So, although I am not convinced

yet, my engine runs better after a hot start than it did last year.  I will

wait until the temps get up into the high 90s on the ground before I declare

victory........



I did fly out of Vegas in May, it was in the 80's and I did not get a

cylinder head temp warning or an oil temp warning....last year I got

both......it was an almost straight climb to 14,500 this year.......I

normally climb at between 110 and 120 indicated......  



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080

--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: hot starts

Do you lean aggressively after start? I taxi with 1000-1200 no problem.

Engine will quit with too much fuel or too little for the amount of air.  



--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: hot starts

Also what is the value of your temp warning? 350f? 400f? 450f?  For me

250-360f is green range; 361-420f yellow range; 421+ red range. Lycoming

temp limits are higher. We initially had yellow temp conditions until we cut

down the air dams and then removed them completely, located AZ.



--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: hot starts

Yes I lean aggressively, being at ~4500 feet I need to or the plugs will

foul.  I only have to pick up the RPMs after a hot start.....it is

embarrassing to have the engine stop while you are on the taxi

way.....passengers get concerned also.  After a cold (regular) start I keep

it at 1000 rpm.



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080



--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: hot starts

For the CHT I have it set (warning) at 420.  Last year I ran 380 to 400 in

cruse climb and 380 in low level cruse.  I have not seen 400 yet this year,

and cruse is closer to 350 on low level cruse.



I cut my fences down a little, but they are still there....



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080



--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: hot starts

Try the boost pump on for taxi when hot 



--

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: hot starts

Well I tried the fuel pump on and off just after the start but could not really tell a difference.  Like Tim, I noticed a little roughness on the taxi to the runway. But it always cleared up after a minute or so of running.  I do lean aggressively once the engine is running for taxi.It's for sure a little hard to start once it gets warmed up.  Only once have I had to crank twice to get a running engine (I jumped on the mixture too soon).But that day I did a lot of starts in a short period of time (10 starts in 4 hours).  Burned 20 gallons that day flying the young eagles.  It was fun.Jim CN312F----------------------------------------Jim,            Next time try the exact same procedure but with the fuelpump on and see if it works better for you. To be clear...- Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)- Throttle - Wide Open- Mixture - Cutoff- Fuel Pump - On- Crank till it fires- Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))- Throttle - Close to high idleRobinFrom: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SusanSent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:19 AMTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: hot startsI had 10 young eagle flights two weeks ago, on a 75 Deg F day- Fuel Pump - OFF (No Prime)- Throttle - Wide Open- Mixture - Cutoff- Crank till it fires- Mixture - Ease it in (Too fast will flood it (Again!))- Throttle - Close to high idleWorked for me - But not a real pretty start, but got the fan runningJim CN312F - 75 hoursChecked by AVG - www.avg.com06/15/09 05:54:00   [quote][b]

fdombroski

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 33
Location: Westfield NJ

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: hot starts

I find that leaning the engine for taxi will minimize the rough running, especially when hot...



Cheers,

Frank

N46WD Grinning

_________________
Frank Dombroski
Multiple Offender RV-8, 7A, 10 x 2
RV-10 2.0 N46VT 2015
KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ

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