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Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

  Ron- It sounds like your carb is doing the same as my Bing 54 on the Rotax 447.  Bogging down in mid range; seems Ok at full; and air screw does not seem to be doing anything.  Take the carb bowl off carefully, and look in the gas and bottom of the bowl.  Maybe pour the gas out through a paper towel.  Look carefully in the bowl, and clean with a Q-tip.  The main jet is located directly under the needle that you can see while looking in through the air intake.  If you take off the filter, the gas goes up thropugh the main jet.  It comes out easily for cleaning or replacement.  I had congealed goo in mine, probably from sitting.  Also, mine had a worn out choke seal, and more goo.  The seal plunger had to be replaced.  I got the seal plunger and a carb kit from Lockwood.  The diagram is in their book.  

  I found very clear instructions on the web from the "Ultralight news".  Call up "Bing 54 adjustments" on web search.  Also, Scott Olendorf has a couple of tricks on his website.  No special tools required, but a torch tip cleaner came in handy to poke the goo out.

  John Hauck is right about tieing it down.  I was running around trying to test for the bogging, and look what happened to me.  Just don't walk into the fan.

 

                                             Bill Sullivan

                                             Windsor Locks, Ct

Blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:03 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

In a message dated 6/24/2009 9:40:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  If I    have an engine problem, I tie the airplane to my trailer hitch with a    

secure tow strap.  A lot safer, saves a lot of time, airplanes and    people 

doing it this way.

	


 

 Yes, always but ALWAYS secure the aircraft before starting. Mr. Know-It-All  here (me) once started a 582 Maxair with the throttle accidentally  WIDE-ASS-OPEN....with NO securing strap. I was standing outside the aircraft  while hand propping.

  

 You will not believe the power of a 582 at full throttle. I had enough time  to grab the horizontal stabilizer & hang on...and that's all I was allowed  to do...hang on! It whipped me around & around about 3 times in a circle,  dragging my 190 pound butt around like a rag doll or a piece of paper! I  actually thought I could stop it in place! Haaaaaaa! What an idiot!

  

 I got my wits together on the 2nd. trip around (I was younger then)  & while being whipped around, got it aimed at a big bunch of bushes  alongside the runway. I managed to let go at the proper time. It actually took  off on it's own & flew itself into the bushes where it (Thank God) managed  to bury itself...and still ran wide-ass-open untill I could get to it!  Amazingly, no damage but did mow some bushes with the nickel leading edge Warp  Drive bushmower propellar. No damage to the Warp either!

  

 Always but always secure your aircraft for any runups. Sitting in the  aircraft & cranking by battery while also tied to a friggin' TREE is  the best idea for runups.

  

 Bill (wide-ass-open) Catalina

 Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web.  Try the new Email Toolbar now!

  [quote][b]

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:39 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

Ron,

Please put the filter after the bulb, any loose rubber from the bulb will 

than be filtered out instead of going into the carb and becoming an 

obstruction to your main jet.

I had this happen to me on my 503 powered Loehle SP years ago and it was a 

close call. Little tiny peice of black rubber bobbing around in the float 

bowel.  Sounds like you better pull your bowel and check real close for 

this.



Dennis Rowe

---

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl





Thanks John, at this point I could not agree with you more. 



Now off to *my* hanger where I have all my tools, and set up, to maybe get this contraption flight ready for 5-am tomorrow!

Ron (at) KFHU



========================

---- John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote: 



=============


 > -Sputtering; On take off it was good all the way to mid power, but no 

sooner I cleared the strip it started bogging down I brought the power back 

and it seemed to have gone away. But every time after that when I gave it 

opened throttle more to get some more altitude it started bogging down 

again. It got  to where I could not maintain altitude about half way to 

where I was going. I hope its just an air leak and nothing else, I am aware 

that I may have more than one issue here, no idea about the history of this 

motor, even though it is very strong when it is doing is thing at full 

throttle, for the few seconds that it does.

Captain Ron:



Most folks do their engine testing on the ground, until they are satisfied 

the engine will perform normally once airborne.



If I have an engine problem, I tie the airplane to my trailer hitch with a 

secure tow strap.  A lot safer, saves a lot of time, airplanes and people 

doing it this way.



john h

mkIII 

--

kugelair.com

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

Thank you much! I printed it out and will take with me, to work on the Carb. 



Ron (at) KFHU



=========

---- williamtsullivan(at)att.net wrote: 



=============

Â  Ron- It sounds like your carb is doing the same as my Bing 54 on the Rotax 447.Â  Bogging down in mid range; seems Ok at full; and air screw does not seem to be doing anything.Â  Take the carb bowl off carefully, and look in the gas and bottom of the bowl.Â  Maybe pour the gas out through a paper towel.Â  Look carefully in the bowl, and clean with a Q-tip.Â  The main jet is located directly under the needle that you can see while looking in through the air intake.Â  If you take off the filter, the gas goes up thropugh the main jet.Â  It comes out easily for cleaning or replacement.Â  I had congealed goo in mine, probably from sitting.Â  Also, mine had a worn out choke seal, and more goo.Â  The seal plunger had to be replaced.Â  I got the seal plunger and a carb kit from Lockwood.Â  The diagram is in their book.Â  

Â  I found very clear instructions on the web from the "Ultralight news".Â  Call up "Bing 54 adjustments" on web search.Â  Also, Scott Olendorf has a couple of tricks on his website.Â  No special tools required, but a torch tip cleaner came in handy to poke the goo out.

Â  John Hauck is right about tieing it down.Â  I was running around trying to test for the bogging, and look what happened to me.Â  Just don't walk into the fan.

Â 

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Bill Sullivan

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Windsor Locks, Ct.

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  FS 447

--

kugelair.com

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

pull your bowel?

pls do not archive

On Jun 24, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Denny Rowe wrote:



[quote] 

 <rowedenny(at)windstream.net>



 Ron,

 Please put the filter after the bulb, any loose rubber from the  

 bulb will than be filtered out instead of going into the carb and  

 becoming an obstruction to your main jet.

 I had this happen to me on my 503 powered Loehle SP years ago and  

 it was a close call. Little tiny peice of black rubber bobbing  

 around in the float bowel.  Sounds like you better pull your bowel  

 and check real close for this.



 Dennis Rowe

 ---

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

Thank you

You guys are a treasure here!

Ron (at) KFHU



==============

---- Denny Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net> wrote: 



=============




Ron,

Please put the filter after the bulb, any loose rubber from the bulb will 

than be filtered out instead of going into the carb and becoming an 

obstruction to your main jet.

I had this happen to me on my 503 powered Loehle SP years ago and it was a 

close call. Little tiny peice of black rubber bobbing around in the float 

bowel.  Sounds like you better pull your bowel and check real close for 

this.



Dennis Rowe

---

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

At 09:02 AM 6/24/2009, Ron  (at)  KFHU wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I have the bulb above the fuel filter  ( the bulb is brand new from 

Aircraft Spruce, the original was rot cracked, plugs are also brand new)...


	


Same here... my original bulb was dry and hard; I replaced it with a brand 

new bulb from Aircraft Spruce.  The brand new bulb was bad (clogged) out of 

the box.  It would pass enough fuel for warmup and mid power, and let the 

carb bowl fill, but at full power the it couldn't keep up and the engine 

would starve for fuel shortly after takeoff.  I discovered this the hard 

way on my first flight in the plane; fortunately it would make enough power 

to get around the pattern and land.  I now have a plunger primer and no 

squeeze bulb.



 	  Quote: 	
		    ...and we did not install it with hose clams at all. I have already 

 taken care of that now. I have it installed Fuel Tank, filter, bulb, 

 pump, I also have yet to run the motor to check and see if the problem is 

 solved. All that stuff happened yesterday. The bubbles start right at the 

 fuel filter  probably air was getting in that area, and also was another 

 bubble stream was getting in around the bulb. I think this will be a none 

 issue as I now have clamps there too.


	


The point I was making is that the clamps can CAUSE an air leak, since they 

don't do a very good job of clamping all the way around small 

hoses.  Safety wire (wrap around the hose three times, then twist) does a 

better job and is lighter as well.



I would look for a blockage upstream of the first place you see the 

bubbles.  Places to look are the pickup inside the tank, and any fittings.



Do you have and EGT and/or CHT gauges on the engine?  If so, what do they 

say?  If not, you should.



 	  Quote: 	
		  -Sputtering; On take off it was good all the way to mid power, but no 

sooner I cleared the strip it started bogging down I brought the power 

back and it seemed to have gone away. But every time after that when I 

gave it opened throttle more to get some more altitude it started bogging 

down again.


	


Sounds like my experience, except that the rpm's were surging up and down.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I never opened a Bing carb before and don't have the manual can you tell 

me about the jetting in a bit more detail. Density Altitude around here is 

around 7-8K this time of year.


	


You have a Bing?  The Cuyunas originally came with a Mikuni which is a much 

better carburetor for these engines.  I'm told that lots of people have 

trouble getting the engine to run correctly with the Bing.



The Cuyuna manual (as well as the Mikuni manual) can be downloaded from the 

files section of the Cuyuna Yahoo group (I put them there):

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cuyunamotor>

You might get some more useful advice there, too, though it's not a very 

active group.



-Dana

--

  To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

Well i think I found out one problem, and it had to do with the bulb. It seemed that the Handy dude at the ranch who forced it into the tube cracked the intake into the bulb. When I repositioned the bulb and tried to insert it into its new position the prong just broke off easily. Re-did the entire fuel line, found out that I had a bulb that Kolb sent me back when I bought the kit.  My buddy who is a good mechanic came and took a look at it. We had the Carb apart ( I said Bing,, its a Mikuni written right on it) he new it inside and out cleaned some air input and the needle closed it up. And tomorrow we shall see if I can get a solid hour out of it. Patched up the prop, new prop will be in tomorrow too late for the AM flight.

Other than that will see what happens.



Ron (at) KFHU

================================

---- Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote: 



=============




At 09:02 AM 6/24/2009, Ron  (at)  KFHU wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I have the bulb above the fuel filter  ( the bulb is brand new from 

Aircraft Spruce, the original was rot cracked, plugs are also brand new)...


	


Same here... my original bulb was dry and hard; I replaced it with a brand 

new bulb from Aircraft Spruce.  The brand new bulb was bad (clogged) out of 

the box.  It would pass enough fuel for warmup and mid power, and let the 

carb bowl fill, but at full power the it couldn't keep up and the engine 

would starve for fuel shortly after takeoff.  I discovered this the hard 

way on my first flight in the plane; fortunately it would make enough power 

to get around the pattern and land.  I now have a plunger primer and no 

squeeze bulb.



 	  Quote: 	
		    ...and we did not install it with hose clams at all. I have already 

 taken care of that now. I have it installed Fuel Tank, filter, bulb, 

 pump, I also have yet to run the motor to check and see if the problem is 

 solved. All that stuff happened yesterday. The bubbles start right at the 

 fuel filter  probably air was getting in that area, and also was another 

 bubble stream was getting in around the bulb. I think this will be a none 

 issue as I now have clamps there too.


	


The point I was making is that the clamps can CAUSE an air leak, since they 

don't do a very good job of clamping all the way around small 

hoses.  Safety wire (wrap around the hose three times, then twist) does a 

better job and is lighter as well.



I would look for a blockage upstream of the first place you see the 

bubbles.  Places to look are the pickup inside the tank, and any fittings.



Do you have and EGT and/or CHT gauges on the engine?  If so, what do they 

say?  If not, you should.



 	  Quote: 	
		  -Sputtering; On take off it was good all the way to mid power, but no 

sooner I cleared the strip it started bogging down I brought the power 

back and it seemed to have gone away. But every time after that when I 

gave it opened throttle more to get some more altitude it started bogging 

down again.


	


Sounds like my experience, except that the rpm's were surging up and down.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I never opened a Bing carb before and don't have the manual can you tell 

me about the jetting in a bit more detail. Density Altitude around here is 

around 7-8K this time of year.


	


You have a Bing?  The Cuyunas originally came with a Mikuni which is a much 

better carburetor for these engines.  I'm told that lots of people have 

trouble getting the engine to run correctly with the Bing.



The Cuyuna manual (as well as the Mikuni manual) can be downloaded from the 

files section of the Cuyuna Yahoo group (I put them there):

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cuyunamotor>

You might get some more useful advice there, too, though it's not a very 

active group.



-Dana

--

  To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid

--

kugelair.com

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:18 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

Ron, I know you're flying a minimal aircraft, I had a 'Dactyl cousin for a few years, a Kasperwing. Very simple machine to fly and take care of. That being said, if there is some way you can get that primer bulb out of your fuel system, do it. They're a failure waiting to happen. One put my MkIII on the ground with no warning. I bought three, two boat units and a Harbor Freight siphon set up. The HF unit was dead right out of the box. One boat unit failed almost right out of the package and all it was doing was starting a siphon to drain tanks for winter storage. The last is my siphon and will never get any higher that I can throw it. As for flying, if the 'Dactyl is anything like the Kwing, it has NO crosswind capability, I learned lots of tricks to handle light crosswinds including the Polish runway technique, but the bottom line is that straight into the wind works every time, all else is a guess.

 Your experience could be different.

Rick

do not archive

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Ron  (at)  KFHU <captainron1(at)cox.net (captainron1(at)cox.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron  (at)  KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net (captainron1(at)cox.net)>

 Well i think I found out one problem, and it had to do with the bulb. It seemed that the Handy dude at the ranch who forced it into the tube cracked the intake into the bulb. When I repositioned the bulb and tried to insert it into its new position the prong just broke off easily. Re-did the entire fuel line, found out that I had a bulb that Kolb sent me back when I bought the kit.  My buddy who is a good mechanic came and took a look at it. We had the Carb apart ( I said Bing,, its a Mikuni written right on it) he new it inside and out cleaned some air input and the needle closed it up. And tomorrow we shall see if I can get a solid hour out of it. Patched up the prop, new prop will be in tomorrow too late for the AM flight.

  Other than that will see what happens.

 Ron (at) KFHU

 =======

 ---- Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 =============

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>

 At 09:02 AM 6/24/2009, Ron  (at)  KFHU wrote:

 >I have the bulb above the fuel filter  ( the bulb is brand new from

 >Aircraft Spruce, the original was rot cracked, plugs are also brand new)...

 Same here... my original bulb was dry and hard; I replaced it with a brand

 new bulb from Aircraft Spruce.  The brand new bulb was bad (clogged) out of

 the box.  It would pass enough fuel for warmup and mid power, and let the

 carb bowl fill, but at full power the it couldn't keep up and the engine

 would starve for fuel shortly after takeoff.  I discovered this the hard

 way on my first flight in the plane; fortunately it would make enough power

 to get around the pattern and land.  I now have a plunger primer and no

 squeeze bulb.

 >  ...and we did not install it with hose clams at all. I have already

 > taken care of that now. I have it installed Fuel Tank, filter, bulb,

 > pump, I also have yet to run the motor to check and see if the problem is

 > solved. All that stuff happened yesterday. The bubbles start right at the

 > fuel filter  probably air was getting in that area, and also was another

 > bubble stream was getting in around the bulb. I think this will be a none

 > issue as I now have clamps there too.

 The point I was making is that the clamps can CAUSE an air leak, since they

 don't do a very good job of clamping all the way around small

 hoses.  Safety wire (wrap around the hose three times, then twist) does a

 better job and is lighter as well.

 I would look for a blockage upstream of the first place you see the

 bubbles.  Places to look are the pickup inside the tank, and any fittings.

 Do you have and EGT and/or CHT gauges on the engine?  If so, what do they

 say?  If not, you should.

 >-Sputtering; On take off it was good all the way to mid power, but no

 >sooner I cleared the strip it started bogging down I brought the power

 >back and it seemed to have gone away. But every time after that when I

 >gave it opened throttle more to get some more altitude it started bogging

 >down again.

 Sounds like my experience, except that the rpm's were surging up and down.

 >I never opened a Bing carb before and don't have the manual can you tell

 >me about the jetting in a bit more detail. Density Altitude around here is

 >around 7-8K this time of year.

 You have a Bing?  The Cuyunas originally came with a Mikuni which is a much

 better carburetor for these engines.  I'm told that lots of people have

 trouble getting the engine to run correctly with the Bing.

 The Cuyuna manual (as well as the Mikuni manual) can be downloaded from the

 files section of the Cuyuna Yahoo group (I put them there):

 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cuyunamotor>

 You might get some more useful advice there, too, though it's not a very

 active group.

 -Dana

 --

   To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid

 --

 kugelair.com

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

Well I am back and well after hanging under that 30+ year old Dacron for an hr and some minutes. The Bulb I got from Kolb worked just fine, the old Cuyuna worked without  once sputtering. Whatever we did took care of the issues. Towards the end I actually started feeling comfortable. Landings have never been a problem in this machine, it lands so slow that if I have too I would land it crosswise or any angle needed on the runway or intersection of runways. 

 The big problem was, and may still be the time table I had to operate under. I got the job two weeks ago and in that time I had to find an ultralight and get it ready for the job. I honestly lost 5 pounds in that time to get it ready from a collection parts in sand dust and rubbish it was under to make it fly,  in some on border Ranch away from paved roads. 

It still looks like hell but now it flies. I have never seen a pterodactyl before so this was some education. I did modify the two front sticking posts holding the canard by placing a brace between them after the first test hop showed them sorta meandering around, amazing that people fly them without those.

One more problem though, on anything more than 60% power it just powerfully wants to climb, and I am not about to snap one of them connecting roads by forcing the canard down, it already looks like its under strain, not to mention my arm pushing forward on the stick. 

I am guessing the motor is too low and thus pendulum the whole contraption up with any type of power. 

=========================================

---- Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote: 

=============

Ron, I know you're flying a minimal aircraft, I had a 'Dactyl cousin for a

few years, a Kasperwing. Very simple machine to fly and take care of. That

being said, if there is some way you can get that primer bulb out of your

fuel system, do it. They're a failure waiting to happen. One put my MkIII on

the ground with no warning. I bought three, two boat units and a Harbor

Freight siphon set up. The HF unit was dead right out of the box. One boat

unit failed almost right out of the package and all it was doing was

starting a siphon to drain tanks for winter storage. The last is my siphon

and will never get any higher that I can throw it.As for flying, if the

'Dactyl is anything like the Kwing, it has NO crosswind capability, I

learned lots of tricks to handle light crosswinds including the Polish

runway technique, but the bottom line is that straight into the wind works

every time, all else is a guess.

Your experience could be different.

Rick

do not archive

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Ron (at) KFHU <captainron1(at)cox.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Well i think I found out one problem, and it had to do with the bulb. It

 seemed that the Handy dude at the ranch who forced it into the tube cracked

 the intake into the bulb. When I repositioned the bulb and tried to insert

 it into its new position the prong just broke off easily. Re-did the entire

 fuel line, found out that I had a bulb that Kolb sent me back when I bought

 the kit.  My buddy who is a good mechanic came and took a look at it. We had

 the Carb apart ( I said Bing,, its a Mikuni written right on it) he new it

 inside and out cleaned some air input and the needle closed it up. And

 tomorrow we shall see if I can get a solid hour out of it. Patched up the

 prop, new prop will be in tomorrow too late for the AM flight.

 Other than that will see what happens.

 Ron (at) KFHU

 ================================

 ---- Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 =============

 At 09:02 AM 6/24/2009, Ron  (at)  KFHU wrote:

 >I have the bulb above the fuel filter  ( the bulb is brand new from

 >Aircraft Spruce, the original was rot cracked, plugs are also brand

 new)...

 Same here... my original bulb was dry and hard; I replaced it with a brand

 new bulb from Aircraft Spruce.  The brand new bulb was bad (clogged) out of

 the box.  It would pass enough fuel for warmup and mid power, and let the

 carb bowl fill, but at full power the it couldn't keep up and the engine

 would starve for fuel shortly after takeoff.  I discovered this the hard

 way on my first flight in the plane; fortunately it would make enough power

 to get around the pattern and land.  I now have a plunger primer and no

 squeeze bulb.

 >  ...and we did not install it with hose clams at all. I have already

 > taken care of that now. I have it installed Fuel Tank, filter, bulb,

 > pump, I also have yet to run the motor to check and see if the problem is

 > solved. All that stuff happened yesterday. The bubbles start right at the

 > fuel filter  probably air was getting in that area, and also was another

 > bubble stream was getting in around the bulb. I think this will be a none

 > issue as I now have clamps there too.

 The point I was making is that the clamps can CAUSE an air leak, since they

 don't do a very good job of clamping all the way around small

 hoses.  Safety wire (wrap around the hose three times, then twist) does a

 better job and is lighter as well.

 I would look for a blockage upstream of the first place you see the

 bubbles.  Places to look are the pickup inside the tank, and any fittings.

 Do you have and EGT and/or CHT gauges on the engine?  If so, what do they

 say?  If not, you should.

 >-Sputtering; On take off it was good all the way to mid power, but no

 >sooner I cleared the strip it started bogging down I brought the power

 >back and it seemed to have gone away. But every time after that when I

 >gave it opened throttle more to get some more altitude it started bogging

 >down again.

 Sounds like my experience, except that the rpm's were surging up and down.

 >I never opened a Bing carb before and don't have the manual can you tell

 >me about the jetting in a bit more detail. Density Altitude around here is

 >around 7-8K this time of year.

 You have a Bing?  The Cuyunas originally came with a Mikuni which is a much

 better carburetor for these engines.  I'm told that lots of people have

 trouble getting the engine to run correctly with the Bing.

 The Cuyuna manual (as well as the Mikuni manual) can be downloaded from the

 files section of the Cuyuna Yahoo group (I put them there):

 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cuyunamotor>

 You might get some more useful advice there, too, though it's not a very

 active group.

 -Dana

 --

  To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid

 --

 kugelair.com

--

kugelair.com

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

At 05:41 PM 6/25/2009, Ron  (at)  KFHU wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Well I am back and well after hanging under that 30+ year old Dacron for 

an hr and some minutes. The Bulb I got from Kolb worked just fine, the old 

Cuyuna worked without  once sputtering. Whatever we did took care of the 

issues...


	


Cool!  I'd still suggest getting rid of the bulb and adding a plunger 

primer.  I have become convinced primer bulbs are evil, and will never 

again put one on any aircraft (I still have them on my PPG's, but an engine 

out in a PPG is generally a non event, and I'll replace them with plungers 

when they wear out).



 	  Quote: 	
		  One more problem though, on anything more than 60% power it just 

powerfully wants to climb, and I am not about to snap one of them 

connecting roads by forcing the canard down, it already looks like its 

under strain, not to mention my arm pushing forward on the stick.


	


Just be careful.  As I'm sure you know, it's easy to exceed Vne in level 

flight in a 'Dac, and a depressing number of pilots have died this 

way.  (Yes, John, I know this isn't the Pterodactyl list, so I say... do 

not archive.)



-Dana



--

  In America, anyone can become president. That's one of the risks you take.

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:53 am Post subject: Re: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

Fellow Kolbers,



This discussion about primer types begs the question of what the primer is being used for and how it is installed. I expect this is going to start a lively discussion but so be it (or maybe not). Most of the primer installations I've seen on 2-stroke engines are being used as a manual pump to fill the float bowl, but that is not what they are intended for.  



The intended purpose of a primer is to get fuel into the intake (not the float bowl), which enables an easy and quick start up when cold. See attached image from Rotax installation manual. This can also be accomplished with a functional enricher like Bing carbs have. On my last FS I installed a primer squeeze bulb from West Marine in the way that ROTAX says to do it, plus a shut-off valve since I used it only for starting and wanted it completely isolated from the main fuel delivery system when not being used for a cold start. I used this in lieu of the enricher.  Notice in the Rotax image that the primer is connected to the carburetor primer fitting, not in line to the float bowl. On Type Certificated airplanes, the primer line generally go straight to one or more intake manifold tubes, downstream of the carburetor.



I'm not saying anyone else should do it this way, but Rotax does. In my experience, once the engine fires off with a bit of raw fuel (primer or enricher) the engine driven pump will maintain a full float bowl and the engine will start and run as intended.

primer.tif

Description:

Rotax primer installation

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl

Do we have a Dac list here on Matronics? well anyway I am going to go and check in there, if i can find it. This project will be going on for two more weeks.

I am sure some were grinding their theeth while I was talking about the Dac ( I'd rather be in a Kolb any Kolb if I could swing it on the budget I have) but the help I got here was very "safety" valuable, helping a pilot stay alive I think is always a more overiding concern than turf zone comfort.

I am sure John and everybody else here were awere of it.



Ron (at) KFHU



=================================================

---- Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote: 



=============




At 05:41 PM 6/25/2009, Ron  (at)  KFHU wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Well I am back and well after hanging under that 30+ year old Dacron for 

an hr and some minutes. The Bulb I got from Kolb worked just fine, the old 

Cuyuna worked without  once sputtering. Whatever we did took care of the 

issues...


	


Cool!  I'd still suggest getting rid of the bulb and adding a plunger 

primer.  I have become convinced primer bulbs are evil, and will never 

again put one on any aircraft (I still have them on my PPG's, but an engine 

out in a PPG is generally a non event, and I'll replace them with plungers 

when they wear out).



 	  Quote: 	
		  One more problem though, on anything more than 60% power it just 

powerfully wants to climb, and I am not about to snap one of them 

connecting roads by forcing the canard down, it already looks like its 

under strain, not to mention my arm pushing forward on the stick.


	


Just be careful.  As I'm sure you know, it's easy to exceed Vne in level 

flight in a 'Dac, and a depressing number of pilots have died this 

way.  (Yes, John, I know this isn't the Pterodactyl list, so I say... do 

not archive.)



-Dana



--

  In America, anyone can become president. That's one of the risks you take.

--

kugelair.com

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