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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

> I do wish you would get the chance to fly a Kolb with properly designed
VG's that are put on exactly like they should be. I would be very
interested to see what you think.
Quote:

Mike


Mike B:

Maybe I'll have a chance to take you flying in my mkIII, or your mkIII, or
both. That would be a good comparison, both.

Kolbs are easy to fly. Very forgiving, as long as you stay above stall
speed when close to the ground.

All my flight time since I retired as a Army helicopter pilot and taught
myself to fly my Ultrastar (my solo fixed wing flight in 1984), has been in
Kolbs, with the exception of about 20 hours in a C 172, 19 years ago, to get
my private ticket to fly my mkIII, and a few hours in Bert Howland's
personal Honey Bee in 1989, 20 years ago. You might say I have specialized
in building and flying Kolbs. I still fly mine because I haven't found
anything to replace it with that would be an improvement on my style of
flying. I'm pretty sure I have learned a few things about these little
airplanes along the way, but not any more than any other pilot would in the
same circumstances.

One thing that I have found out, when I occassionally fly someone else's
Kolb, many times, is the fact that they lack the knowledge and experience to
set up the airplane correctly so that it flies the way I think a Kolb should
fly. If you don't know the difference, you will keep on keeping on thinking
you have the best that Kolb has to offer, when a little tweak here and there
might make a new airplane out of it.

Take care,

john h
mkIII


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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

John Hauck wrote:


One thing that I have found out, when I occassionally fly someone else's
Kolb, many times, is the fact that they lack the knowledge and experience to
set up the airplane correctly so that it flies the way I think a Kolb should
fly. If you don't know the difference, you will keep on keeping on thinking
you have the best that Kolb has to offer, when a little tweak here and there
might make a new airplane out of it.

Take care,

john h
mkIII


John H,

You are so right about that ! I really need to get to Sun and Fun, or somewhere that you are. I would like you to fly my Kolb and give me any suggestions you have. There are surely things I have overlooked that you would notice immediately. If I ever find you somewhere, I will fill up the Kolb with gas, give you the keys, await your flight report and suggestions Smile

Mike


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lcottrell



Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

[quote] ---

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dalewhelan



Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 105
Location: USA ARIZONA fountain hills

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

I expect I am the yahoo mentioned in other posts, if you look at my signature you will see why I am not too bothered by it.
If anyone cares about the opinion of a low time pilot, (only 130 hours flight time) the reason for me impacting the ground was low airspeed. I was not stalled and I had good roll control with the ailerons, I was in sink and going too slow. Just my opinion, but I was there.
I am new to the flying community, in a way.
I find the large number of hostile responses and name calling kind of odd.
I read the purpose of this forum is to promote camaraderie. I don't feel it so much here. I do like the people I have met in person so far.


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Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II, Luscombe 8A
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
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lcottrell



Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

[quote] ---

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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:38 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

> If anyone cares about the opinion of a low time pilot, (only 130 hours
flight time) the reason for me impacting the ground was low airspeed. I was
not stalled and I had good roll control with the ailerons, I was in sink and
going too slow. Just my opinion, but I was there.

> Dale Whelan
Dale:

One of the fine characteristics of Kolb aircraft is the ability to do
exactly what you describe above, a mush/stall.

You still have roll control because the outboard ends of the wings, that
also have the ailerons attached, have not completely stalled.

When this happens, close to the ground, you are finished flying because
there is not enough altitude to get the nose down to get out of the stall.

You and your girlfriend are very fortunate the nose did not drop.

john h
mkIII


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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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planecrazzzy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

Seafoam has Finally met it's match with VG thread...
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.


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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:12 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Dale:

Where???

I seem to have missed all this hostility and name calling.

We have lively discussions and do not always agree on everything.

Occasionally, we have a new guy, or someone who does not post very often, raise a little Hell.

I like to share what I do and how I do it, rather than tell folks that this is the best, worst, or only way to do something.

There is a lot of reinventing of the wheel here. Some of us that have been messing with Kolbs for a while probably have made the same mistakes and found cures years ago.

All in all, I think we are a pretty good group, especially when we get together at a couple of our Kolb flyins.

john h
mkIII
[quote]
Quote:


I find the large number of hostile responses and name calling kind of odd.
I read the purpose of this forum is to promote camaraderie. I don't feel it so much here. I do like the people I have met in person so far.

--------
Dale Whelan

[b]


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hauck's holler
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Ralph B



Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

planecrazzzy wrote:
Seafoam has Finally met it's match with VG thread...
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN


Someone mention Seafoam?

My Original Firestar doesn't have VG's and it stalls at 20mph indicated airspeed. The Kolbra has them and stalls at 45mph solo and 50mph with a passenger. On landing, there have been times where it drops suddenly if I get it too slow. The Firestar has more of a mush when it gets into ground effect. I'm not sure if the VG's were installed right or not as I didn't build it. There are VG's underneath the elevator just ahead of the hinges. I've been tempted to remove them.

Ralph


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Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours


Last edited by Ralph B on Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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lucien



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

dalewhelan wrote:
I find the large number of hostile responses and name calling kind of odd.



The trick there is to Just Say No to Ad Hominum attacks and stick to the facts and information. In the last salvo, you were the one who initiated the small amount of name calling that did go on. I tend to take a no-participation policy on that to start with and just concentrate on the information at hand in the thread.

Being well-liked or respected by others as a "real" pilot is not my business anymore. I don't take chances with my equipment or my life to achieve status anymore, even tho that rankles some. Too bad.
Just something that works for me, don't necessarily suggest it to you.

Quote:

I read the purpose of this forum is to promote camaraderie. I don't feel it so much here. I do like the people I have met in person so far.


Sharing of information that can save your airplane and/or your life takes precedence over camaraderie by a long, long ways IMO. Speaking personally, I don't mind tweaking a few noses and perhaps being looked down upon for the way I fly if I can help keep someones' plane out of the dirt or worse the pilot possibly out of the hospital. I'd rather we all continue to fly for fun than being well-liked or well-respected.

But like I said, noone has to believe me. I'm just an old(ish) ultralighter who has learned a few things about keeping a light aircraft flying and avoiding survival exercises - I also happen to not be shy about sharing my experience there when I see someone doing something potentially expensive or even life-threatening. But that's all it is, a sharing of my experience. Thus it's worth what you paid for it.

"Just the fact's, ma'am, just the facts"

LS


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LS
Titan II SS
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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

[quote="lucien"]
dalewhelan wrote:


I don't take chances with my equipment or my life to achieve status anymore, even tho that rankles some. Too bad.

LS


I have been waiting to see videos of Lucien doing loops, rolls, and spins in his Titan but nothing yet... I also have been wanting to see how the Titan will handle those 50 MPH gales they have in New Mexico and the extreme flight reports ! We need to get Lucien back in his competitive spirit again Wink

Mike


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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

There are VG's underneath the elevator just ahead of the hinges. I'm been
tempted to remove them.
Quote:

Ralph


Take them off the horizontal stabilizer and put them on your helmet.

Ask Buford. They worked for him. I think you also need a great big old
cigar to complete the flight suit.

john h
mkIII


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lucien



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

[quote="JetPilot"]
lucien wrote:
dalewhelan wrote:


I don't take chances with my equipment or my life to achieve status anymore, even tho that rankles some. Too bad.

LS


I have been waiting to see videos of Lucien doing loops, rolls, and spins in his Titan but nothing yet... I also have been wanting to see how the Titan will handle those 50 MPH gales they have in New Mexico and the extreme flight reports ! We need to get Lucien back in his competitive spirit again Wink

Mike


The limitation isn't the plane, it's the pilot. The local II S flies in crap I wouldn't dare take mine up in, he flies a bit closer to the edge than I like to.

I do plan to barrel roll it at some point, but I want to get some training in rolls first. The original owner (JD) rolled it a bunch and there're videos here and there of it.

Here he is flying it when it had the original 80 horse 912 on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6fb8tMQ7wI

Here's me trying to do a good landing in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qqAS_NAlDk&feature=channel

Not Kolb related so

do not archive

LS


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Titan II SS
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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:56 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

I also have been wanting to see how the Titan will handle those 50 MPH
gales they have in New Mexico and the extreme flight reports ! We need to
get Lucien back in his competitive spirit again Wink
Quote:

Mike


Don't hold your breath. Lucien is too smart to fly in those kinds of winds.

Only uneducated, inexperienced Kolbers from Alabama and Louisiana fly in
those conditions. If we had known better, we would have had the MV flyin in
Mississippi, this year, so we wouldn't have to encounter NM winds.

john h
mkIII - Haven't flown in nearly a month. Hope my mkIII is still in the
hanger. ;-(


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:07 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

There are VG's underneath the elevator just ahead of the hinges. I'm been
tempted to remove them.

Ralph

Quote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

I think I would leave them on. The tail plane is designed to create a
downward force in order to keep the plane at the desired attitude. If the
vg's help with a lower airspeed, there would be a decrease in the
effectiveness of the tail plane. (possibly restored by the vg's in this
area) This would be more pronounced at the forward edge of the cg envelope
where more downward force is required.

Boyd Young


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lucien



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

John Hauck wrote:

Don't hold your breath. Lucien is too smart to fly in those kinds of winds.


With all due respect, you're quite right (tho not a matter of smarts really).

Back when I was working on my private back in TX, I met an old retired gentleman who I eventually learned had had a long career as a pilot in the military. He used to instruct in the P-51 among others, his hours was somewhere in the 20,000 range in an uncountable number of different types of planes.
One time, I was verbally curious to him about this very question of wind limits and other weather and asked his opinion. His response was "well, you fly when it's appropriate to fly".

Another good friend from my ultralighting days, when answering criticism about his flying preferences, always used to say about UL'ers: "we're exactly where we want to be once the wheels leave the ground".

Those two guys and their remarks have always stuck with me...

Not Kolb related so....

do not archive

LS


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Titan II SS
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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

Lucien,

Good videos of the takeoff and landings ! I had not seen that before. Do you have a heater in the Titan ? I see snow beside the runway Shocked

I am with you on taking it easy, I am one of the first to call it a day and stay on the ground when it starts to get rough and windy ( unless I am at work and have to fly ). I do this for fun, and if I'm not having fun I don't fly.

I used to do a lot of aerobatics, I owned a Cessna 150 aerobat, it was a blast, I would tear it up every time I flew, which was almost every day Smile I really miss aerobatics. I have taught quite a few guys aerobatics and EVERY single person made the same mistake on the first rolls. When you are starting to get inverted, and inverted, and until you start to get level, you must push forward on the stick. Everyone just keeps full aileron in, but just goes neutral on the elevator, which results in a high speed dive and high speed pullout. I have seen 160 MPH and 5.5 G's on the pullout when guys fall out of the roll. Make sure to push that stick forward until you feel yourself hanging in the belts as soon as you start to get inverted and keep it there so that you don't fall out the bottom. Once you get the hang of it, you can do a roll with almost no stress on the airplane, and no negative G's, but everyone screws it up and tries to keep to much positive G's, and falls out the first time. You will be fine with even just a little bit of instruction, but instruction is required !

Keep the videos coming, even though its not Kolb its always great to see the videos, it beats watching Oprah in the mornings Smile

Mike


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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Quote:
Those two guys and their remarks have always stuck with me...

Not Kolb related so....

>

Quote:
LS


Lucien:

A fair weather flyer will remain a fair weather flyer, unless he is trained
and current in other weather conditions.

I would be the last person to encourage others to get into situations that
are beyond their limits. However, the only way to learn and stay
proficient, at other than fair weather, is to get out, learn, and train in
challenging conditions.

The primary reason I try to stay proficient, in all types of weather, is the
chance of getting caught out in it. Very easy to do. If I am not
comfortable in these situations, I am bound to make mistakes.

I have a 25 mph wind limit, but there are times when I have no choice but to
fly in far greater wind conditions. I want to be comfortable and proficient
enough to get home safe and sound.

If I was primarily a local, fair weather flyer, I'd make it a point to get
out and at least do some pattern work, especially during breezy New Mexico
conditions.

Flying is a high risk sport, especially in something one has built in his
basement. I know how my airplanes are built, except when I am flying
others.

If flying was not risky, exciting, challenging, fun, and adventuresome, I'd
stick to dirt bikes, ATVs, and mountain biking.

I had the chance to see some Kolb pilots from Lousiana fly out West, clear
up into Oregon. I watched them encounter weather conditions that most
pilots would only dream about. My two Cajun buddies did an outstanding job
of flying, max gross, for the first time, and surviving, in their Kolb
MKIII's, through deserts and the Rocky Mountains. I have flown out there
many times, and I was screwing up more than they were. Wink We had a blast.

john h
mkIII


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

My old flying buddy called it the "empty the ashtrays" maneuver.
BB

On 26, Jun 2009, at 1:55 PM, JetPilot wrote:

Quote:


Lucien,

Good videos of the takeoff and landings ! I had not seen that
before. Do you have a heater in the Titan ? I see snow beside the
runway [Shocked]

I am with you on taking it easy, I am one of the first to call it a
day and stay on the ground when it starts to get rough and windy
( unless I am at work and have to fly ). I do this for fun, and if
I'm not having fun I don't fly.

I used to do a lot of aerobatics, I owned a Cessna 150 aerobat, it
was a blast, I would tear it up every time I flew, which was
almost every day Smile I really miss aerobatics. I have taught
quite a few guys aerobatics and EVERY single person made the same
mistake on the first rolls. When you are starting to get inverted,
and inverted, and until you start to get level, you must push
forward on the stick. Everyone just keeps full aileron in, but
just goes neutral on the elevator, which results in a high speed
dive and high speed pullout. I have seen 160 MPH and 5.5 G's on
the pullout when guys fall out of the roll. Make sure to push that
stick forward until you feel yourself hanging in the belts as soon
as you start to get inverted and keep it there so that you don't
fall out the bottom. Once you get the hang of it, you can do a
roll with almost no stress on the airplane, and no negative G's,
but everyone screws it up and tries to keep to much positive G's,
and falls !
out the first time. You will be fine with even just a little bit
of instruction, but instruction is required !

Keep the videos coming, even though its not Kolb its always great
to see the videos, it beats watching Oprah in the mornings Smile

Mike

--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S


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Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

www.landshorter.com
If you decide to use them on the underside of your horizontal stabilizer to improve
your flare then you will place them about 1" apart and just in front of the elevator.
In all cases the VG's are placed at a precise angle to the airstream and are aligned
and spaced with the included templates



At 01:06 PM 6/26/2009, you wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>

There are VG's underneath the elevator just ahead of the hinges. I'm been
tempted to remove them.

Ralph

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

I think I would leave them on. The tail plane is designed to create a
downward force in order to keep the plane at the desired attitude.

Boyd Young[b]


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

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