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rosestar(at)sonic.net Guest
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:45 am Post subject: Oil Burn |
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I would like to know what everyone's oil burn rate is on the Jabiru
3300. If you wouldn't mind, please let me know how many hours on
airplane, how often you add oil, and how much do you add. So far, mine is:
TT: 42 hours; every five hours I add oil; 1/4 quart added each time.
Now that I am flying longer trips, I expect my numbers will be larger in
the last two categories.
Thanks,
Brad DeMeo
N601BD - Zodiac XL
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imap8ntr(at)cox.net Guest
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: Oil Burn |
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TT 234hrs, 1oz/hr 100W Plus, or 1 1/2 oz/hr multigrade oil. I add oil at
the end of each flight to keem my level at the same spot on the stick. I
use a measuring cup and add 1oz for each hour flown during that flight.
This way it can drain and I can get an accurate reading of the stick before
I start my next flight day.
Ivan
Phoenix, AZ
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dhonabach
Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 13
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: Oil Burn |
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That's about when the engine was done with its break-in, wouldn't you
suppose?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 687.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Don Honabach wrote:
[quote]
<don(at)pcperfect.com>
I've got about 100 hours on mine - am I supposed to be adding oil?
Never
checked - LOL!!!
Seriously, I haven't been able to really track my usage properly. I
end
up with a lot going overboard as I have a tendency to have a bit too
much fun when I fly ... It did seem to settle down for me though
after my first 50 or so hours.
Don
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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DaveG601XL
Joined: 27 Oct 2006 Posts: 351 Location: Cincinnati, Oh
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Oil Burn |
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With 87 or so total time on the hobbs, I am burning about 1/2 - 3/4 oz. per hour on 15W50. I had about that same rate on straight mineral oil during break-in. On my first oil change at 25 hours, I went to W100 and for some reason my consumption rate about quadrupled. When winter approached, I changed to 15W50. Seeing that consumption rate drop back down, I have not even considered going back to W100 this summer. Don't know why the big difference in consumption between the oil types.
BTW, I keep my oil level between 1/4 and 1/2 on the dip stick per a verbal suggestion that, I believe, came from Pete.
Good Luck,
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_________________ David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: Oil Burn |
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What serial number?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 687.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:12 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
Quote: |
<david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
With 87 or so total time on the hobbs, I am burning about 1/2 - 3/4
oz. per hour on 15W50. I had about that same rate on straight
mineral oil during break-in. On my first oil change at 25 hours, I
went to W100 and for some reason my consumption rate about
quadrupled. When winter approached, I changed to 15W50. Seeing
that consumption rate drop back down, I have not even considered
going back to W100 this summer. Don't know why the big difference
in consumption between the oil types.
BTW, I keep my oil level between 1/4 and 1/2 on the dip stick per a
verbal suggestion that, I believe, came from Pete.
Good Luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
85 hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51090#251090
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Stephen Smith
Joined: 02 Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Burn |
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My 3300 has been flying for two years and has about 550 hours on it. Here in Santa Rosa California I use Aeroshell 15w50 in the winter and Aeroshell 100 plus in the summer. Consumption has gone up over the past 150 hours or so. It is now at about 1 quart per 450 miles.
I have minor seepage in several places on the engine but nothing I would call a leak. The volume of oil in the separator has been going up, but sure does not account for anything like the quantity being consumed. The spark plugs look reasonable - not fouled or dark. Compression check 25 hours ago is down to 70, 76, 74, 68, 60, 75. Not sure where the oil is going if its not past the rings and out the tail pipe.
Yes, I toss my plane around a bit - it asks for it, I swear! In high angle climbs and steep banks I can smell hot oil for a few seconds.
Frankly the consumption seem quite high and a bit disappointing. Anyone else with 550 or more hours? What is your consumption?
My engine's dipstick had the S turns in it. I have flattened them out which makes the dipstick longer and allows me to use the original marks for full/add while having the oil level a bit lower. It also makes it less likely the oil level will be off the end of the dipstick. When that happens, you don't know how much to add.
Steve
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: Oil Burn |
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In a message dated 7/4/2009 7:12:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sRoydSmith(at)hotmail.com writes:
Quote: | nice looking plane you have there.
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Thanks, Steve,
Our EAA chapter built a 601XL (N156WT) that has a 3300 Jab on it. Has been flying a little over two years and I think it has about 250 hours on it. I will have to ask the current owners about their oil usage.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill.
[quote][b]
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 174 Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:05 am Post subject: Oil Burn |
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Hi Stephen,
What´s the prop you are using? and what cruse speed do you get at 2450-2500?
Please, let me know.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: (at) home
Engine: Jabiru 3300
[quote][b]
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_________________ Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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Stephen Smith
Joined: 02 Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Oil Burn |
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Hello Alberto,
I have the Sensenich composite ground-adjustable prop.
I have about 400 hours of flight data that I can analyze.
Looking back through about the most recent 140 hours of data selected for 2,500 RPM at 2,000 feet I see 9 hours at 105 MPH average ground speed, 101 MPH average indicated airspeed.
Steve
---------------------------------------------
Hi Stephen,
What�s the prop you are using? and what cruse speed do you get at 2450-2500?
Please, let me know.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: (at) home
Engine: Jabiru 3300
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 340 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:44 am Post subject: Oil Burn |
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My 2200a uses a squirt or two every three hours. I've never measured it
accurately but I suspect a quart about over 20 hours or maybe less.
It's done 1100 hrs now, it #596 and is on 15w50. Changing oil types
never made a difference so I stick to multi grade all year. It's always
used the same amount so I suspect it's burning it via the bores.
The compressions were always disappointing prior to the new heads at
1004 hrs and now they are great though the prices I paid where
astronomic.
Chucking it about makes what's in the bottle worse, though there's never
that much, recently I've routed the hose up higher via a loop of scat
tube to run it to the highest point in the cowls that this seems to have
made a minor improvement. Only done about 10 hours since so maybe just
me being optimistic.
My 3300 uses about the same as the 2200 but that's only done 15 hours
and I'm hoping this will improve. There was a 2200a in our hangar that
was about #900 and that never used a drop. The 3300 that I looked after
until it was sold had 300 hrs on it and it uses about the same as the
others mentioned above.
Regards, Clive
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dons701
Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 80 Location: Hershey, PA
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Oil Burn |
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While I am new to the 2200A I have worked with many other types of piston engines, racing and others. The 2200A is interesting in that there seems to be no real control of oil mist and crankcase pressure, i.e. collective combustion leakage past the rings normally found in all running piston engines. I have not removed the oil pan but, according to the engine parts manuals there is no crank scraper or windage tray as found in many race engines to control the oil mist wrapped around a spinning crankshaft. This crankcase pressure with mist and oil splatter obviously makes it's way out of the engine by using the dipstick tube / oil vent hose. A system that reduces or eliminates any liquid oil from making it's way out of the engine, allowing only "dry" normal combustion pressure to be relieved, would be optimal. Separating oil from the air would need to be done in stages by mechanically removing as much oil mist as possible from the spinning crank as said earlier, with scrappers and or a windage tray similar to any common race engine. Even a number of circular fine mesh screens situated on the dipstick might baffle the liquid oil but still allow gasses to escape.
In the end, the true amount of oil actually being burned in the normal combustion process would be known.
The ultimate goal would not only be to eliminate the oil collection bottle and retain oil in the engine, but would be to create a negative pressure in the crankcase as this would increase power by making the rings seal more efficiently. Initially as time allows, i will experiment with the dipstick baffle modification and later, a way of creating crankcase vacuum utilizing exhaust velocity in the exhaust pipe and report back on this site.
I know there are many creative people on this site that might have already figured out some of these issues, or have better ideas . If I am missing something or I am not correct let me and others know, lets learn together for the benefit of all. Thanks for reading, Don
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: Oil Burn |
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Well, one thing different from normal (to me anyway) racing engines
that I've worked on, is that the crank isn't down near the oil in the
pan, so no need...that I can see...for a windage tray. The "wind"
just doesn't blow over the oil as it does in a V8, for example. The
cam is between the spinning crank and the oil...approximately 4-6
inches away...and also, the speed of the crank is way below the
normal racing engine, so I doubt that a windage tray would help much.
Since I removed my fuel pump and blocked the hole with a flat metal
plate, I've been thinking of maybe using that hole to get a little
more breathing area for the engine, but haven't moved past the
thinking stage.
It would be interesting to install a window in the oil pan and see
what goes on in there, oilwise, at 3000 or so rpm.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 695.8 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:58 AM, dons701 wrote:
Quote: |
<burdon1(at)comcast.net>
While I am new to the 2200A I have worked with many other types of
piston engines, racing and others. The 2200A is interesting in that
there seems to be no real control of oil mist and crankcase
pressure, i.e. collective combustion leakage past the rings
normally found in all running piston engines. I have not removed
the oil pan but, according to the engine parts manuals there is no
crank scraper or windage tray as found in many race engines to
control the oil mist wrapped around a spinning crankshaft. This
crankcase pressure with mist and oil splatter obviously makes it's
way out of the engine by using the dipstick tube / oil vent hose. A
system that reduces or eliminates any liquid oil from making it's
way out of the engine, allowing only "dry" normal combustion
pressure to be relieved, would be optimal. Separating oil from the
air would need to be done in stages by mechanically removing as
much oil mist as possible from the spinning crank as said earlier,
with scrappers !
and or a windage tray similar to any common race engine. Even a
number of circular fine mesh screens situated on the dipstick might
baffle the liquid oil but still allow gasses to escape.
The ultimate goal would not only be to eliminate the oil
collection bottle and retain oil in the engine, but would be to
create a negative pressure in the crankcase as this would increase
power by making the rings seal more efficiently. Initially as time
allows, i will experiment with the dipstick baffle modification and
later, a way of creating crankcase vacuum utilizing exhaust
velocity in the exhaust pipe and report back on this site.
I know there are many creative people on this site that might
have already figured out some of these issues, or have better
ideas . If I am missing something or I am not correct let me
and others know, lets learn together for the benefit of all. Thanks
for reading, Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51750#251750
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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dons701
Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 80 Location: Hershey, PA
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Oil Burn |
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Good point, the further the oil surface is away from the crank the better. But, as long as oil is squirting from all the rods and mains while spinning at any RPM there will be oil churning around down there. Any amount of oil making it's way out of the vent hose is too much. Yes, it would be interesting just to be able to remove the dipstick while the engine is running (without the prop blast), I know I would not want to be looking to close down the dipstick tube. Thanks, Don
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: Oil Burn |
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Yes....you might get more than an eyefull. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 695.8 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Jul 6, 2009, at 2:24 PM, dons701 wrote:
Quote: |
<burdon1(at)comcast.net>
Good point, the further the oil surface is away from the crank the
better. But, as long as oil is squirting from all the rods and
mains while spinning at any RPM there will be oil churning around
down there. Any amount of oil making it's way out of the vent hose
is too much. Yes, it would be interesting just to be able to
remove the dipstick while the engine is running (without the prop
blast), I know I would not want to be looking to close down the
dipstick tube. [Laughing] Thanks, Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51807#251807
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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zeprep251(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Oil Burn |
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Lynn,
I believe the later engines have a deeper oil pan to relieve the problem. G.Aman
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checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NE Guest
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: Oil Burn |
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Vent the oil separator back to the sump via a three way fitting at the sump
drain. No spots on my hanger floor at 333.8 Hobbs time. Bob Haas N380BH.
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