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billz

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Clinton, New York

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:43 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical Stab?  I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build.  I've seen it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am concerned about damage to the antenna, over time.



What are your thoughts.



Thanks!

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

There are definitely some who've put it on top, under the

front fairing on the tip of the vertical stab.  It

should work great there.  Under the tail is working

well for me.  It gives maybe 25% better range than

my wingtip Archer NAV, and that is facing the station.

If you face the wingtip away from the station it

can be much worse.  I think the lower location may

be great for VOR signals since they'll be ground

based, but VS tip shouldn't be much different.  It's

nice to get near 360 line of sight.

The Horizontal stab protects the antenna very well.

Other than crawling under for maintenance, there

really isn't any big stuff to worry about.  I have

tables on the sides of my t-hangar and I just have to make

sure I push it back straight so I don't snag anything, but

I haven't in over 500 hours.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



billz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am

 wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical

 Stab?  I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make

 sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build.  I've seen

 it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am

 concerned about damage to the antenna, over time.

 

 What are your thoughts.

 

 Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 52094#252094

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

I've put my Comant Nav/VOR/GS V antennas there on both my RV-9A and my

RV-10. Seems to work great and no danger of running into the tips. I used

nutplates to make it easily removable.

Albert Gardner

Yuma, AZ

N991RV



--

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

billz

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Clinton, New York

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Nav antenna location

Thank you for the quick replies.  



I can see that the antenna will be protected by the horizontal stab and get better coverage (looking down) for the ground based signals.  Sounds like the way to go.  I saw an RV-10 in Memphis with the bottom mount.  It looks like he just used bolts into nut plates on a reinforcing plate inside the fuselage.  Is that how you've done it?  I'll attach the pictures.  



This plane also had two bent whip com antennas located between the main landing gear.  What are your thoughts on that location??

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jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

One of the things I found out with the antenna on bottom is you can get shadowing if  flying dirrectly to the station and Not very high (3000ft and below). So I'm in the mist of installing antenna on the VS.  As the Comat man said, the bottom mount was the second best location.

 Patrick Thyssen

N15PT

--- On Wed, 7/8/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nav antenna location

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:13 AM



--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <[url=/mc/compose?to=Tim(at)myrv10.com]Tim(at)myrv10.com[/url]>



There are definitely  some who've put it on top, under the

front fairing on the tip of the vertical stab.  It

should work great there.  Under the tail is working

well for me.  It gives maybe 25% better range than

my wingtip Archer NAV, and that is facing the station.

If you face the wingtip away from the station it

can be much worse.  I think the lower location may

be great for VOR signals since they'll be ground

based, but VS tip shouldn't be much different.  It's

nice to get near 360 line of sight.

The Horizontal stab protects the antenna very well.

Other than crawling under for maintenance, there

really isn't any big stuff to worry about.  I have

tables on the sides of my t-hangar and I just have to make

sure I push it back straight so I don't snag anything, but

I haven't in over 500 hours.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



billz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by:  "billz" <[url=/mc/compose?to=billz(at)roadrunner.com]billz(at)roadrunner.com[/url]>

 

 I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am

 wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical

 Stab?  I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make

 sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build.  I've seen

 it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am

 concerned about damage to the antenna, over time.

 

 What are your thoughts.

 

 Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252094#252094

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List   --> http://www.matronics.c===================


	




	
 [quote][b]

drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:05 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

I've got the dual com antennae on the belly and have no problems.  Work 

well.  I can get your some pics of the doublers if you desire.  I put 

one of the Bob Archer VOR ant in the wingtip.  I didn't want another 

outside antennae.  My main reason was that I didn't plan on using VOR 

navigation that much.  It is a good back up and cross reference, but 

most of the time the GPS (496 and 430 ) are the primary nav sources.  I 

know it all depends on your panel preferences, your experience and 

usage.   Just my 0.02 cents.



Dr Fred

N515FW.



billz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thank you for the quick replies.  



 I can see that the antenna will be protected by the horizontal stab and get better coverage (looking down) for the ground based signals.  Sounds like the way to go.  I saw an RV-10 in Memphis with the bottom mount.  It looks like he just used bolts into nut plates on a reinforcing plate inside the fuselage.  Is that how you've done it?  I'll attach the pictures.  



 This plane also had two bent whip com antennas located between the main landing gear.  What are your thoughts on that location??





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 52137#252137





 Attachments: 



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1058_774.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1060_721.jpg

gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

Mine is located on bottom of fuselage mounted just fwd of leading edge  

of vert stab.  Put in a doubler plate if you mount it there as the  

skin is too thin to support (had to reinforce mine after 50 hrs).



Otherwise, I'm happy with it there and it's pretty much hidden  

underneath the horizontals.



grumpy

N184JM



do not archive



On Jul 8, 2009, at 8:43 AM, billz wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am  

 wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical  

 Stab?  I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make  

 sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build.  I've seen  

 it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am  

 concerned about damage to the antenna, over time.



 What are your thoughts.



 Thanks!





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 52094#252094

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

I had....dual antennae on the bottom, but moved one to the top during my

condition inspection.  I found that when I was talking on 118.3 & 118.1,

that it really did not work.   Both at Boise (118.1) and Salt Lake City

(118.3), I had transmission problems.  I could hear them, but they could not

always hear me.  Could have been installation problems, but I appeared to

have good grounding.......



Both the SL30 and the 430 had problems...... 



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080



--

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: Nav antenna location

The only drawback to the nav antenna on the vertical stab is that birds love perching on them on the ramp and birds do what they do best while at rest.



do not archive.



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:

[quote] One of the things I found out with the antenna on bottom is you can get shadowing if  flying dirrectly to the station and Not very high (3000ft and below). So I'm in the mist of installing antenna on the VS.  As the Comat man said, the bottom mount was the second best location.

 Patrick Thyssen

N15PT

--- On Wed, 7/8/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

Subject: Re: Nav antenna location

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:13 AM



--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <[url=/mc/compose?to=Tim(at)myrv10.com]Tim(at)myrv10.com[/url]>



There are definitely some who've put it on top, under the

front fairing on the tip of the vertical stab.  It

should work great there.  Under the tail is working

well for me.  It gives maybe 25% better range than

my wingtip Archer NAV, and that is facing the station.

If you face the wingtip away from the station it

can be much worse.  I think the lower location may

be great for VOR signals since they'll be ground

based, but VS tip shouldn't be much different.  It's

nice to get near 360 line of sight.

The Horizontal stab protects the antenna very well.

Other than crawling under for maintenance, there

really isn't any big stuff to worry about.  I have

tables on the sides of my t-hangar and I just have to make

sure I push it back straight so I don't snag anything, but

I haven't in over 500 hours.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



billz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "billz" <[url=/mc/compose?to=billz(at)roadrunner.com]billz(at)roadrunner.com[/url]>

 

 I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am

 wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical

 Stab?  I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make

 sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build.  I've seen

 it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am

 concerned about damage to the antenna, over time.

 

 What are your thoughts.

 

 Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252094#252094

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List   --> http://www.matronics.c===================


	




[/url] 	
[url=http://forums.matronics.com]  	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

wayne.e(at)grandecom.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

Hi Bill,

  

 Yes I put mine there and it works just fine. I  considered putting it down on the bottom like many others have done but had  concerns about reception but also my grandkids running around the hangar and  getting impaled on it down there. My plane is white in that section and the  antenna is white so it's really not that noticeable and I'm used to seeing it  there from my other certified planes.

  

 I don't think you need them but if you would want  any photos of the mount location let me know.

  

 Wayne Edgerton

 N602WT

  

                  "billz" <billz(at)roadrunner.com (billz(at)roadrunner.com)>       

      

      I'm  planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am wondering  if

      anyone has installed one at the top of the  vertical Stab?  I'm getting ready to

       rivet the skin on and would like to make sure I don't make a BIG mistake  this

      early in the build.  I've seen it  located on the bottom of the tail on many

       aircraft, but am concerned about damage to the antenna, over  time.

      

      What  are your thoughts.

       

       Thanks!

      

       



    [quote][b]

jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Nav antenna location

We put ours on top of the VS, we also added an LED beacon up there.  See attached...



Jason Kreidler - 4 Partner Build

N44YH - Flying - #40617

Sheboygan Falls, WI

Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner, & Jason Kreidler

100_0260 (Medium).JPG

Description:

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43.31 KB

Viewed:

11324 Time(s)

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

Any one consider blade antennas rather than the eye poking V? Lots of Bonanzas have gone to them, mounted under the V.



On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 4:06 AM, Wayne Edgerton <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net (wayne.e(at)grandecom.net)> wrote:

 [quote]       Hi Bill,

  

 Yes I put mine there and it works just fine. I  considered putting it down on the bottom like many others have done but had  concerns about reception but also my grandkids running around the hangar and  getting impaled on it down there. My plane is white in that section and the  antenna is white so it's really not that noticeable and I'm used to seeing it  there from my other certified planes.

  

 I don't think you need them but if you would want  any photos of the mount location let me know.

  

 Wayne Edgerton

 N602WT

  

                  "billz" <billz(at)roadrunner.com (billz(at)roadrunner.com)>        

      

      I'm  planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am wondering  if

      anyone has installed one at the top of the  vertical Stab?  I'm getting ready to

       rivet the skin on and would like to make sure I don't make a BIG mistake  this

      early in the build.  I've seen it  located on the bottom of the tail on many

       aircraft, but am concerned about damage to the antenna, over  time.

      

      What  are your thoughts.

       

       Thanks!

      

       



    

 	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

Jason



I am going to do the same thing and will add the LED beacon.  I was

wondering why you have the Antenna pointed forward.  I would think going aft

would relieve a lot of stress on the antenna mount.  



I am also going to place the Nav antenna on top of the VS they really work

best up there.



John G. Cumins

40864 EMP 





--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

The lobes of sensitivity lie along the sides of the V. pointed forward. More

sensitivity forward. 



--

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

If you point them aft the rudder counter-balance will hit them.

Albert Gardner

Yuma, AZ



--

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

If that's the case then why does everyone point them aft.  



John G. Cumins

President

 

JC'S Interactive Systems

2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94533

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider

--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

Marketing I assume. Swept back is cool. A lot of serious IFR aircraft have

them swept forward to more accurately know where one is going rather than

where one has been. IFR magazine had an article of an aircraft in IMC that

hit a mountain while traveling between Port Angeles and Seattle along an

airway. The cause was determined to be a bent VOR signal and the sensitivity

of the antennas. I don't recall the particulars but do know that the

sensitivity is in the direction of the elements of the V. 



--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: Nav antenna location

If that were much of an issue, why not go with the more sensitive and balanced blade antennas? Most new production aircraft use them. IIRC they were designed to optimize VOR/DME RNAV performance.



 On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:32 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net (dlm46007(at)cox.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net (dlm46007(at)cox.net)>

 

 

Marketing I assume. Swept back is cool. A lot of serious IFR aircraft have

 them swept forward to more accurately know where one is going rather than

 where one has been. IFR magazine had an article of an aircraft in IMC that

 hit a mountain while traveling between Port Angeles and Seattle along an

 airway. The cause was determined to be a bent VOR signal and the sensitivity

 of the antennas. I don't recall the particulars but do know that the

 sensitivity is in the direction of the elements of the V.

 

 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: Nav antenna location

Aren't they way way more expensive?  I remember flying along just over

100nm away from a station in front of me, receiving it with my

backwards mounted (V facing forward) NAV antenna, mounted under

the tail.  Now, it may be more sensitive mounted facing forward,

and it may work better mounted on the top of the VS, but I

was pretty happy with it, considering it's generally used as

backup navigation for me.  My Archer nav doesn't perform nearly

as well and not nearly as well from any direction.  Blade

antennas might work great, but last I saw they were very

expensive, too.  I guess everyone has their tradeoff as to

what they are both wanting and willing to accept.  I can only

speak for what I installed, and note that it's working plenty

well for me.  The V's might be more sensitive in the forward

direction, but really, VOR's should be well received in all

directions or they aren't as useful as they should be.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Kelly McMullen wrote:

[quote] If that were much of an issue, why not go with the more sensitive and 

 balanced blade antennas? Most new production aircraft use them. IIRC 

 they were designed to optimize VOR/DME RNAV performance.

 

 On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:32 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net 

 <mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net>> wrote:

 

     

     <mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net>>

 

     Marketing I assume. Swept back is cool. A lot of serious IFR

     aircraft have

     them swept forward to more accurately know where one is going rather

     than

     where one has been. IFR magazine had an article of an aircraft in

     IMC that

     hit a mountain while traveling between Port Angeles and Seattle along an

     airway. The cause was determined to be a bent VOR signal and the

     sensitivity

     of the antennas. I don't recall the particulars but do know that the

     sensitivity is in the direction of the elements of the V.

 

     --

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: Nav antenna location

Looks (aesthetics) often override antennae ground plane theory.  No one

should casually dismiss correct orientation solely on appearance.



Builders should consider manufacturer avionics and their best antennae

selection choice long before the aircraft is entering finish.  But alas,

all too often the thought doesn't enter early enough into radiation

patterns, placement, interference, ground plane (signal propagation),

coaxial run lengths or aesthetics until much too late to be as

effective.



"That is the case."    Now....tradeoffs, that is more to the reality of

choice during the long build process.

You can always look to the over 214 flying RV-10s and follow the

leaders.



John Cox

W7COX

#40600



--

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