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aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz Guest
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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Good to see you making progress. I use half flap to take off and let the flaps off at about 300ft AGL. I land with full flap,mainly because I feel I have much better control if landing in gusty or cross wind conditions. Also as most of my flying has been in these very light aircraft I prefer steep arrivals . Its easier to dump height with no engine than it is to try and gain height with no engine. Letting the flaps go, had to think about that one. Mostly take my hand off the throttle and reach up with my left hand.I am left handed and this just feels right.I also like to let off the trim before using the flap, I think this gives me a better feel for pitch control in the flare. This is the way that I do it, others will do it different , I think with your experience you may need to experiment a bit and do it the way you are comfortable with. Sink rate and inertia { or lack of }
are two big differences that you will need to get comfortable with. >From my exeriance ,any bad things these Kolbs do are pilot induced .I do have to be mindful that when I fly other microlight aircraft {ultralights } they may not be so forgiving. The only time I have not been comfortable flying the Kolb is when cought in winds gusting up to 40 mph, I found turning into wind to land a most mind focusing experiance . have fun , stay safe up there .
Downunder
MK111c
503
From: HGRAFF(at)aol.com (HGRAFF(at)aol.com)
[quote] To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: Re: First Flight follow-up,
Wow, I've been away from the computer for a couple of days and find a regular storm of many outraged responses. Also, as well, intended helpful ones.
My, I've been told I have an attitude problem, with the implications I don't appreciate good advice, fly an out of rig, out of CG, not built to plans, porpoising monster into an imminent crash.
Guys cool it. The porpoising only lasted 3 - 4 seconds into the first flight, when I over-controlled, surprised by the sensitivity of the pitch. My friend, another GA type had the same problem. Maybe it was my problem for calling this sensitivity "extreme", because I find it at the extreme end of anything I've flown before, excepting maybe the helicopter I owned. Gosh, I only asked the "insane" question if anybody had done anything to reduce this pitch sensitivity.
To put some of the feathers down, let me state the CG is normal, Mr. FAA went through the various load calculations to check. This is a straight built classic, without any mods yet. The engine was run in stages for 5 hours, going through the recommended step ups. When it was time for high RPMs the prop was set the specified Static RPM. (Yeah, double checked with a separate optical meter)
In regards to the heavy left wing, where I said "strong" force is required to overcome it. Well, what is strong, perhaps the same force required to initiate a bank. I do think one or two trim tabs will cure that.
I have a question. For all those sweetheart perfectly trimmed Kolbs, how long will it fly when you remove your hand, or do you still need to switch hands to set the flaps. Oh yes, how many of you use flaps in a normal landing. (considering the acute pwr off sink rate already - flames away!)
To be sure, I thank you for and appreciate all your writing efforts. (I'll confess, I did a few quick deletes)
Off line I have been in contact with one of yours, a hundreds of hours guy, that has been most helpful. His opening remarks were something like "Hi, when I started out, I had very similar experiences" was a most reassuring msg someone could send to me.
Haven't had that much time to work on the Kolb, since its airport is 2 hours away, at Columbia Co. Airport in upstate NY, plus weather has been some fickle. Shall I dare do another follow-up?
Herb
MarK IIIc, 246KT, 1.3 hrs and going.
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neilsenrm(at)comcast.net Guest
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:06 am Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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Herb
I think I have invested as much time as anyone with you. Wow where do I start.
We care about our airplanes and those that fly them. We just lost Homer Kolb and one of our members.
You came to us twice describing a plane that was a nightmare on the ground and in the air. We don't know you and assumed you were being honest. A bunch of us tried to help you only to find out in the very best case you misrepresented what happened???
Based on your information it appeared that you were ignoring all our suggestions and were going to fly this nightmare with wings again. At that time Jetpilot's post was strong but with refection now maybe appropriate. What if someone really was trying to fly the plane as described with those piloting skills or attitude.
For you Herb I suggest you reevaluate your airplane and yourself. When you are ready to accurately report information not just bash our airplanes we are here to help.
P.S. This is outrage. The others were just misplaced concern.
Oooo Please.... Do Not Archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1246
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: First Flight follow-up, |
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Herb,
There are no hard feelings here, I hope you feel welcome on the list. It is full of good people and good information. This is the best source of information on the planet for your Kolb.
One thing you need to understand, I took your flight report the only way I could, just as you wrote it. There have been Kolbs flown before that were on the edge of control, and from what you described, that is where you were, a very dangerous condition. If that is not that case, I am very happy, I don't like reading accident reports and fatalities in Kolbs. You also need to know that after a bunch of good advice, you proposed the use of anti servo tabs to correct some of your listed problems... Again a very dangerous option, it should not surprise you in the least you got a very direct and harsh response. Just remember, it was to help you.
I have nothing to gain by being hard on you, except for the fact that had everything gone wrong and you had crashed, that I would have been able to sleep at night knowing I did everything I possibly could. First in a nice, and then in a not so gentle way, to get you to rig your plane correctly and safely.
No one here will jump all over your case for asking a question, ask away ! I dont use flaps for landing either, My Kolb comes down very quickly without them. I always do my landings from high, and at flight idle all the way down. If that engine is going to quit, many times they like to quit when you pull back the power to idle. Be high enough that you can continue your approach with or without the engine. Its a bit more difficult than the standard 3 degree glideslope with power, but I think its a good technique once you are confident in the airplane. Of course, work up to this, because it does make for a more difficult flare and landing. I learned to fly my Kolb doing normal, partial power approaches, and transitioned over as soon as I felt I could do it without bending the gear.
Trim tabs are OK on the ailerons for small changes, I have them on mine for very small corrections, like only the difference between having a passenger or not in the right seat... I also have fixed trim tabs on my elevator, again a very small correction. Be careful, trim tabs can bite you ! Adding to much weight to the control surface can cause flutter, ( anti servo tab on elevator ), and also having a trim tab come lose can easily cause flutter and be fatal. Treat trim tabs with great respect, they can be very dangerous if not attached securely. Done correctly , they can be a great help.
Mike
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Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S |
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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 1671 Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: Re: First Flight follow-up, |
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On my first flight in N420P, had a notable tendency to yaw right and roll left. That is typical of a MKIII when you are solo in the left seat, and if prop turns clockwise when you are standing at the tail looking forward. Resolved with a trim tab on the rudder turned to the right, and a ground adjustable tab on the right aileron. If you add tabs, you will probably end up adding counterbalances to reduce the tendency of control surfaces to flutter.
On my first landing, I got into a momentary PIO just before touchdown, incurred by being too hyper and nervous. Settled down, no further problems. MKIII elevator is sensitive, but that's not a problem unless you are hyper...
On Ed's FSII, we also had the pitot and static air above the nosecone for a while, never could get it to get anywhere close to accurate. Ended up putting it below and slightly forward of the nosecone, worked fine.
More details here
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm
Keep tweaking -
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldPoops)
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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1246
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: Re: First Flight follow-up, |
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Richard Pike wrote: |
On my first flight in N420P, had a notable tendency to yaw right and roll left. That is typical of a MKIII when you are solo in the left seat, and if prop turns clockwise when you are standing at the tail looking forward. Keep tweaking -
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldPoops)
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I have no such problems with my MK III. Weather I am alone or with a 200 pound passenger, I can fly feet on the floor, and ailerons roll the plane very well in both directions. There is a very small roll trim change if I put in a heavy passenger, due to weight being heavier to one side of the plane, but so small that I can fly it with just two fingers on the stick alone or with passengers... My Kolb is so stable and flys so well, it is well worth to do the research and work to rig your plane properly. My Kolb is as easy to fly in cruise as about any airplane, my first time passengers, even non pilots never have any trouble taking the stick and driving it around the sky in cruise, never needing to touch the rudder pedals, and never any porpoising.
I have had experience with flying my MK III out of rig on the first flights, and it was very dicey in Roll control, to the point of being dangerous, but it was very easy to fix by properly aligning the trailing edges of the wing with washers. If your Kolb does not fly nice and stable, do whatever it takes to fix it, because a properly rigged Kolb MK III is very relaxing and docile to fly.
Mike
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HGRAFF(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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Thanks Richard,
As well as the many others, for their encouragement and good advise. You write about exactly as my off line mentor has done, describing very similar experiences. The tabs are still to be tried out and fortunately both ailerons as well as the rudder are already counterbalanced, so the addition of tabs should not raise that much flutter worry.
I have adjusted to the elevator sensitivity and have not a problem with it in landing. (I hope it stays that way if turbulence). There is more difficulty with nervous feet after the landing to keep from over-controlling. Somebody said the Mark III steers like a nose-wheel craft and I have to concur with that, it is very precise and responsive. I'm used to "Break-Away" tail wheels like on the Citabria, where after the break only the rudder is in control.
Though plain taxiing is banal, in real sharp turns I sure miss the toe brakes. I have difficulties pushing the rudder to its stop, plus getting the heel brake to assist me. Don't laugh, but what I do is push the rudder with one foot and use the other foot to operate the heel brake to assist. (Man, can I see comments flying my way about this!)
In regards to the pitot static above the cone, the indications are surely bogus and it will be moved to the bottom in order of business. I am surprised nobody has taken me to task of reporting stall at 42-45, but climbing out at 40. Don't ask me to explain it, I'll just say the indications are silly. Fortunately, I have a very good sense of feel what an aircraft wants to do and are comfortable enough. (Maybe that is because I also hold an International Aerobatic rating {NO, none of that in the Kolb}).
Richard, thanks again for sharing your first flight experiences, it is most re-assuring to get it.
I don't feel that oddball any more in my first Kolb flying.
If someone has a picture of his pitot/static positioning below the cabin, he is satisfied with, would you please send a copy to me off line, because I would like to get it into the correct position with just one hole drilling.
Thanks, Herb
Mark IIIc, 246KT just 1.3 hrs
In a message dated 8/21/2009 11:55:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
On my first flight in N420P, had a notable tendency to yaw right and roll left. That is typical of a MKIII when you are solo in the left seat, and if prop turns clockwise when you are standing at the tail looking forward. Resolved with a trim tab on the rudder turned to the right, and a ground adjustable tab on the right aileron. If you add tabs, you will probably end up adding counterbalances to reduce the tendency of control surfaces to flutter.
On my first landing, I got into a momentary PIO just before touchdown, incurred by being too hyper and nervous. Settled down, no further problems. MKIII elevator is sensitive, but that's not a problem unless you are hyper...
On Ed's FSII, we also had the pitot and static air above the nosecone for a while, never could get it to get anywhere close to accurate. Ended up putting it below and slightly forward of the nosecone, worked fine.
More details here
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm
Keep tweaking -
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 1671 Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: First Flight follow-up, |
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How remarkable that you are able to have such a perfect MKIII. I am sure that if all of us had MKIII's such as yours, our experiences would be very different that they have been.
I remember the the first time I ever met John Hauck, it was at Oshkosh, I talked to him about my MKIII's reluctance to fly hands off without doing something divergent. His reply? "You will never get a MKIII to fly hands off, they just don't do that." In my experience, he was right. We might disagree on some things, but he was dead on the money that time.
Just for the heck of it I have gone to the extreme of cranking in 4" of strut length on each lift strut to increase the dihedral to a ridiculous amount, just to see if it would help. Nada.
Have not tried the washer trick, but my MKIII requires coordinated use of rudder and ailerons to make it fly well. I guess I am just not up to the level of expertise required to get mine to fly as perfectly as yours. But thankfully I still enjoy it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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Richard, please share with us the new flight characteristics of the
added dihedral.
If I change my wing incidence that will be changed as a side effect.
I get slower and s l o w e r every year getting around to these things.
BTW, I have a very neutral stick in slow cruise but I sure won't be
letting go of it.
Additionally I need to take the slop out of the little horizontal
bolt at the base. It takes very little play to
magnify into a lot of slack.
One of the things that I suppose I will never get used to is the
inherent "wiggleness" of the MkIII as it proceeds
through the air. I know that is part of the plane but after so many
years in a totally rigid airframe it will always feel different.
Good thing I didn't go to a "real" ultralight with all those wires
and stuff holding it together.
BB
On 21, Aug 2009, at 7:37 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
Quote: |
How remarkable that you are able to have such a perfect MKIII. I am
sure that if all of us had MKIII's such as yours, our experiences
would be very different that they have been.
I remember the the first time I ever met John Hauck, it was at
Oshkosh, I talked to him about my MKIII's reluctance to fly hands
off without doing something divergent. His reply? "You will never
get a MKIII to fly hands off, they just don't do that." In my
experience, he was right. We might disagree on some things, but he
was dead on the money that time.
Just for the heck of it I have gone to the extreme of cranking in
4" of strut length on each lift strut to increase the dihedral to a
ridiculous amount, just to see if it would help. Nada.
Have not tried the washer trick, but my MKIII requires coordinated
use of rudder and ailerons to make it fly well. I guess I am just
not up to the level of expertise required to get mine to fly as
perfectly as yours. But thankfully I still enjoy it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 59029#259029
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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 1671 Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: First Flight follow-up, |
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"Richard, please share with us the new flight characteristics of the
added dihedral."
Waste of time. Accomplishes nothing on a MKIII. Works great on a FSII.
<snip>
"Good thing I didn't go to a "real" ultralight with all those wires
and stuff holding it together."
BB
Used to have a Quicksilver MX, flying that dude in bumpy air was freaky, you could feel all the various airframe parts "shuffling." Had to keep reminding myself that it really was alright, but never really got any real peace of mind about it..
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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etzimm(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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On Aug 21, 2009, at 8:53 PM, robert bean wrote:
Quote: | One of the things that I suppose I will never get used to is the
inherent "wiggleness" of the MkIII as it proceeds
through the air. I know that is part of the plane but after so many
years in a totally rigid airframe it will always feel different.
|
Huh? "wiggleness" ? On a Kolb?
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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4639 Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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> One of the things that I suppose I will never get used to is the
Quote: | inherent "wiggleness" of the MkIII as it proceeds
through the air. I know that is part of the plane but after so many
years in a totally rigid airframe it will always feel different.
Good thing I didn't go to a "real" ultralight with all those wires
and stuff holding it together.
BB
|
Most MKIII's don't wiggle in the air.
With a few added braces here and there, my old mkIII is very rigid.
john h
mkIII
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_________________ John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:14 pm Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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Hi Eugene, yes, I know it's not in the dictionary. Maybe the other
models don't feel the same way since I
have no experience with them. In cruise I can feel the differential
waves of air caused by the variable airflow
from the aft section of the fuselage. -Xtras may not have as much
because of the smoother blend behind the doors.
In addition is the wiggle provided by the boom tube and tail
assembly. Maybe my boom tube is more flexible than most?
Just kidding.
That feel is what prevents me from getting friskier with the flight
envelope. I know it isn't a defect or problem with structural
integrity but it does affect my mental attitude.
Each brand of airplane has an individual feel. Cessnas are sloppier
than tube frame airplanes. Some big widebodies feel like
a whale wubbling through the sky. (747 for sure)
The Taylorcraft, even with its very long wings is a nice tight
feeling ship. Citabrias feel solid as a rock. They impart
a sense of security that may or may not be warranted. They have had
a few root rib failures when overstressed.
Couldn't say about Stardusters, Christen Eagles or Pitts, never was
rich enough to afford one but I imagine the Pitts feels
pretty solid.
BB
On 21, Aug 2009, at 9:47 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
Quote: |
On Aug 21, 2009, at 8:53 PM, robert bean wrote:
> One of the things that I suppose I will never get used to is the
> inherent "wiggleness" of the MkIII as it proceeds
> through the air. I know that is part of the plane but after so
> many years in a totally rigid airframe it will always feel different.
Huh? "wiggleness" ? On a Kolb?
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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1246
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: First Flight follow-up, |
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Richard Pike wrote: | How remarkable that you are able to have such a perfect MKIII. I am sure that if all of us had MKIII's such as yours, our experiences would be very different that they have been.
I remember the the first time I ever met John Hauck, it was at Oshkosh, I talked to him about my MKIII's reluctance to fly hands off without doing something divergent. His reply? "You will never get a MKIII to fly hands off, they just don't do that." In my experience, he was right. We might disagree on some things, but he was dead on the money that time.
Have not tried the washer trick, but my MKIII requires coordinated use of rudder and ailerons to make it fly well. I guess I am just not up to the level of expertise required to get mine to fly as perfectly as yours. But thankfully I still enjoy it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) |
I did my homework, and got excellent advice from John H about rigging my Kolb, and it flys exactly as I describe. It took many flights, lots of experimentation, and a good amount of work to make my plane fly as well possible. It did not happen by itself, and it did not happen overnight, but I kept at it and got it to fly very well. In cruise my wife flys with her feet on the floor and just uses the stick to fly around, my Kolb flys very well with just the stick in cruise flight, turns and all. I fly a lot of passengers, and they have had no trouble driving it around the sky in cruise with just the stick, I keep it simple and enjoyable for them. I don't even have them touch the rudder pedals unless they are interested in learning to takeoff and land.
What I never said was that my Kolb was perfect. I also never said that it would fly by itself hands off. The Kolb is a pusher and there has to be some constant control input by the pilot, but it is easy and stable just as I have reported.
From the tone of your message you are obviously doing your best to create doubt about my flight reports. Every time you respond to a post I write, you to try to discredit it an indirect way, either a sarcastic comment, or putting words into my mouth as you did here when you started saying " Perfect " and your bit about flying " hands off " in this post.
Whatever old grudge you may have, I don't care about any more and you should just let it go, your need to get a little revenge for something long forgotten is very unbecoming of a priest. I am surprised you are one of the last few people that is trying to keep an old feud going. All that is over as far as I am concerned.
Mike
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etzimm(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:29 am Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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Bob,
I suppose it is all matter of personal perspective, or individual
plane. Compared to my old Pterodactyl (which flapped its wings like a
pigeon) my Firestar is solid as a rock.
Eugene Z
On Aug 21, 2009, at 11:05 PM, robert bean wrote:
Quote: |
Hi Eugene, yes, I know it's not in the dictionary. Maybe the other
models don't feel the same way since I
have no experience with them. In cruise I can feel the differential
waves of air caused by the variable airflow
from the aft section of the fuselage. -Xtras may not have as much
because of the smoother blend behind the doors.
In addition is the wiggle provided by the boom tube and tail
assembly. Maybe my boom tube is more flexible than most?
Just kidding.
That feel is what prevents me from getting friskier with the flight
envelope. I know it isn't a defect or problem with structural
integrity but it does affect my mental attitude.
Each brand of airplane has an individual feel. Cessnas are sloppier
than tube frame airplanes. Some big widebodies feel like
a whale wubbling through the sky. (747 for sure)
The Taylorcraft, even with its very long wings is a nice tight
feeling ship. Citabrias feel solid as a rock. They impart
a sense of security that may or may not be warranted. They have had
a few root rib failures when overstressed.
Couldn't say about Stardusters, Christen Eagles or Pitts, never was
rich enough to afford one but I imagine the Pitts feels
pretty solid.
BB
On 21, Aug 2009, at 9:47 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
> On Aug 21, 2009, at 8:53 PM, robert bean wrote:
>
>> One of the things that I suppose I will never get used to is the
>> inherent "wiggleness" of the MkIII as it proceeds
>> through the air. I know that is part of the plane but after so
>> many years in a totally rigid airframe it will always feel
>> different.
> Huh? "wiggleness" ? On a Kolb?
>
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net Guest
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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One last thing before the groans start. -My two blade prop throws in
more uneven racket than the
three blade powerfin did. I'm sure the airflow is different because
of it too.
BB
On 22, Aug 2009, at 7:28 AM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
Quote: |
Bob,
I suppose it is all matter of personal perspective, or individual
plane. Compared to my old Pterodactyl (which flapped its wings
like a pigeon) my Firestar is solid as a rock.
Eugene Z
On Aug 21, 2009, at 11:05 PM, robert bean wrote:
>
>
> Hi Eugene, yes, I know it's not in the dictionary. Maybe the
> other models don't feel the same way since I
> have no experience with them. In cruise I can feel the
> differential waves of air caused by the variable airflow
> from the aft section of the fuselage. -Xtras may not have as much
> because of the smoother blend behind the doors.
> In addition is the wiggle provided by the boom tube and tail
> assembly. Maybe my boom tube is more flexible than most?
> Just kidding.
>
> That feel is what prevents me from getting friskier with the
> flight envelope. I know it isn't a defect or problem with structural
> integrity but it does affect my mental attitude.
>
> Each brand of airplane has an individual feel. Cessnas are
> sloppier than tube frame airplanes. Some big widebodies feel like
> a whale wubbling through the sky. (747 for sure)
> The Taylorcraft, even with its very long wings is a nice tight
> feeling ship. Citabrias feel solid as a rock. They impart
> a sense of security that may or may not be warranted. They have
> had a few root rib failures when overstressed.
>
> Couldn't say about Stardusters, Christen Eagles or Pitts, never
> was rich enough to afford one but I imagine the Pitts feels
> pretty solid.
> BB
>
> On 21, Aug 2009, at 9:47 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2009, at 8:53 PM, robert bean wrote:
>>
>>> One of the things that I suppose I will never get used to is the
>>> inherent "wiggleness" of the MkIII as it proceeds
>>> through the air. I know that is part of the plane but after so
>>> many years in a totally rigid airframe it will always feel
>>> different.
>>
>>
>> Huh? "wiggleness" ? On a Kolb?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:06 am Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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inherent "wiggleness" of the MkIII >>
Hi Robert,
you had better have a walk round with a spanner and a screwdriver. No
`wiggleness` in mine.
Pat
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:06 am Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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but my MKIII requires coordinated use of rudder and ailerons to make it fly
well.>>
Most small a/c need that. It is only those who learned to fly in spam cans
that don`t use co ordinated rudder.
Pat
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net Guest
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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You mean the rivet heads AREN'T supposed to be spinning around? Oh
well, more duct tape is in order I guess.
I tried some experimental video yesterday. -An old VHS mini cam on a
stalk, put in the axle hole of a wheelbarrow
tire, bungeed to the seat. Worked pretty good but I need to aim it
up a touch more for the right flight attitude.
BB
On 23, Aug 2009, at 5:02 AM, pj.ladd wrote:
Quote: |
inherent "wiggleness" of the MkIII >>
Hi Robert,
you had better have a walk round with a spanner and a screwdriver.
No `wiggleness` in mine.
Pat
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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4639 Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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> Most small a/c need that. It is only those who learned to fly in spam
cans
Quote: | that don`t use co ordinated rudder.
Pat
|
Patrick:
The older model MKIIIx requires a lot more rudder to fly coordinated than
the other model Kolbs. I believe this is caused by the long, large, flat
nose. When the aircraft gets a little out of yaw trim, relative wind tends
to pull the nose further out of trim.
Most Kolbs will do quite well flying with ailerons only. Homer did a good
job of designing the differential into the system to prevent adverse aileron
control.
I have never flown a Kolb that could be flown with rudder alone, more than a
very short time. When they begin to roll, rudder alone will not pick up
tyhe wing. Because they lack any significant dihedral, if you lose aileron
control, be nice to have a parachute.
I am only aware of one Kolb that lost aileron control, my Ultrastar. That
was caused by a catastrophic failure of the upper aileron bellcrank, the
little one right over your right shoulder, not the big one attached to the
boom tube.
john h
mkIII
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_________________ John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: First Flight follow-up, |
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The older model MKIIIx requires a lot more rudder to fly coordinated than
the other model Kolbs. >>
Hi John,
My Xtra, like my Challenger before takes a lot of hard work to to go into a
turn with no rudder. In fact someone on this list said that they nearly flew
into the ground in their Challenger through trying to reverse a bank without
using rudder.
People who learn to fly in planes with bigger engines just don`t seem to
worry about the inefficiency of turning with no rudder. If you learn in
gliders you soon learn that an unbalanced turn costs you height, which is
your fuel.
I cannot hiold a wing up with the rudder for more than a few seconds. About
enough to quickly make a note of a temp. or pressure reading perhaps.
Cheers
Pat
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