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Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

Well, it "shot craps" and my fuel flow gauge doesn't work anymore. The rotor froze up and doesn't turn. I don't know why. I didn't see any contamination, The stuck rotor had no effect on fuel flow to the engine. (which is a good thing !) I don't use alcohol auto fuel (yet). Has anyone else had this problem? The unit is a little over 6 months old with about 30 hrs of use.

  Northstar is sending another transducer. According to the net this failure is not unusual.

                                                         Dick Maddux

                                                         Fox 4

                                                         Milton,Fl  

 

  [quote][b]

mikeperkins

Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 123

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

My almost-new Northstar F210 occasionally drops to 0 gph during cruise. After a while it starts reading correctly again. It seems to do this once or twice every hour of flight. I have no idea why.   

      [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

Do you folks that are having problems with the F210 have good fuel  

filters prior to the fuel going into the transducer?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 744.1 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Aug 28, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Perkins, Mike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   My almost-new Northstar F210 occasionally drops to 0 gph during  

 cruise. After a while it starts reading correctly again. It seems  

 to do this once or twice every hour of flight. I have no idea why.



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 contribution_- 

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

[quote="mikeperkins"]My almost-new Northstar F210 occasionally drops to 0 gph during cruise. After a while it starts reading correctly again. It seems to do this once or twice every hour of flight. I have no idea why.   

       	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




Sounds like crap in the fuel lines.  I was flying yesterday and noticed my flow rate was slowly dropping.  Should have been burning 7.2 in climb out and I was showing 6.3.  I pushed over into cruise and pulled it back to where I should have been burning 5.6 and was showing 4.9.  I kicked on the electric booster and the flow jumped back up to 5.6.  Looked over my right shoulder and could see crap in the filter just above the transducer.  Landed, put in a new filter and everything was back to normal.  If I did not have that fuel flow meter, I could have easily had a fuel starvation issue and had a nice ride into the trees, instead, I was able to catch it in plenty of time and make the lake.  Would have to say it is the best 119.00 bucks I have spent.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

Same here, although for different reasons. With the fuel flow gauge  

showing my gph usage, I've found that I can fly lean-of-peak EGT  

(thanks to the Rotec TBI, with its mixture control), and check to see  

how close my cylinders are to each other in terms of fuel/air  

distribution. With that information, I'm currently making  

modifications to my engine that will even out the distribution to the  

cylinders. I just finished making a "turbulator" and will install and  

test it shortly. I was getting kinda bored just flying around with no  

particular goal in mind. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 744.1 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:36 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Would have to say it is the best 119.00 bucks I have spent.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 60305#260305

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:45 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

Lynn,

    My transducer is directly above my gascolater which has a screen in it. I have an inline filter from each wing tank (over my shoulder) prior to the header tank. That's three filters prior to the transducer. I used some compressed air pressure to see if I could free up the rotor after I removed the transducer-no joy.

  There have been several failures noted on the net (from the boat people) and the Northstar tech didn't sound suprised. Anyway,I have another one coming. I like having the unit and as Leonard said ,it can be mighty useful !

                                                             Dick Maddux

                                                             Fox 4

                                                             Milton,Fl

 

  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

Sounds like you've got the same filtering that I have, Dick,...one in  

each line to the header and another one just before the transducer.  

However, is the screen in the gascolater a real fine mesh like the  

others? I'm not saying that that's where the junk might be hiding,  

but it's worth a shot.



I just re-did my "under-the-tunnel" fuel lines, the make the lines  

more uniform, and to more "verticallize" the F210 transducer, and I  

did a fuel flow test for one minute. Now my fuel flow rate  

(calculated from the amount measured in actual volume) is 13.125 gph,  

and the flow meter was showing 12.7 gph...close enough for me.



I've even got a "last chance filter"....that's what the Rotec people  

call a small filter that's inside the TBI.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 744.1 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Aug 29, 2009, at 8:40 AM, Catz631(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn,

    My transducer is directly above my gascolater which has a screen  

 in it. I have an inline filter from each wing tank (over my  

 shoulder) prior to the header tank. That's three filters prior to  

 the transducer. I used some compressed air pressure to see if I  

 could free up the rotor after I removed the transducer-no joy.

  There have been several failures noted on the net (from the boat  

 people) and the Northstar tech didn't sound suprised. Anyway,I have  

 another one coming. I like having the unit and as Leonard said ,it  

 can be mighty useful !

                                                             Dick  

 Maddux

                                                             Fox 4

                                                             Milton,Fl



 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:15 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

I had a nice flight in my Kitfox yesterday (sans fuel flow gauge). In the afternoon as I was I was winding down from my projects I decided to have a nice Amber ale at my work bench. As I was doing so I  casually looked up and saw that bad transducer sitting on the shelf in front of me. It wasn't any good anymore so curiosity got the best of me. --disasemble-disasemble !

  I took out my redneck opener (5 LB sledge) and whacked it a couple of times. It didn't even crack. This is a tough mother! I grabbed a hacksaw out of the toolbox and cut the thing in half. It is made out of a solid piece of epoxy or some other kind of plastic stuff with imbedded wires and the tube and rotor. As luck would have it, I cut just above one of the rotor hinge stators so I was able to remove the rotor with a pair of needle nose pliers. I had not damaged a thing when I cut the unit in half. I took out my magnifying glass and examined the rotor. (which looks like a worm gear about 3/16 inch long)  I found the problem. One side of the rotor was shiny and new the other was well worn to the point of trailing some plastic over the edge of the rotor where it was rubbing the wall of the tube the fuel goes thru. I suspect either a badly mfg rotor, bad alignment or wobbling rotor.

  It wasn't trash that caused the problem. This thing is so small and precision and PLASTIC ! It's pretty amazing that it worked at all. The rotor was well stuck in the tube. It wouldn't move with high air pressure from my compressor (last resort) BUT it did not impede the fuel flow to my 912. The indications on the instrument when it failed was of course 0 to 0.3 fuel flow.

  Maybe my next transducer will work longer.

                                                       Dick Maddux

                                                       Fox 4

                                                       Milton,Fl  

 

  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

I just hope they don't want the old unit back to hold up your warranty.



Geez, Dick, you're a mean drunk! : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 744.1 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

do not archive



On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:01 AM, Catz631(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I had a nice flight in my Kitfox yesterday (sans fuel flow gauge).  

 In the afternoon as I was I was winding down from my projects I  

 decided to have a nice Amber ale at my work bench. As I was doing  

 so I  casually looked up and saw that bad transducer sitting on the  

 shelf in front of me. It wasn't any good anymore so curiosity got  

 the best of me. --disasemble-disasemble !

  I took out my redneck opener (5 LB sledge) and whacked it a couple  

 of times. It didn't even crack. This is a tough mother! I grabbed a  

 hacksaw out of the toolbox and cut the thing in half. It is made  

 out of a solid piece of epoxy or some other kind of plastic stuff  

 with imbedded wires and the tube and rotor. As luck would have it,  

 I cut just above one of the rotor hinge stators so I was able to  

 remove the rotor with a pair of needle nose pliers. I had not  

 damaged a thing when I cut the unit in half. I took out my  

 magnifying glass and examined the rotor. (which looks like a worm  

 gear about 3/16 inch long)  I found the problem. One side of the  

 rotor was shiny and new the other was well worn to the point of  

 trailing some plastic over the edge of the rotor where it was  

 rubbing the wall of the tube the fuel goes thru. I suspect either a  

 badly mfg rotor, bad alignment or wobbling rotor.

  It wasn't trash that caused the problem. This thing is so small  

 and precision and PLASTIC ! It's pretty amazing that it worked at  

 all. The rotor was well stuck in the tube. It wouldn't move with  

 high air pressure from my compressor (last resort) BUT it did not  

 impede the fuel flow to my 912. The indications on the instrument  

 when it failed was of course 0 to 0.3 fuel flow.

  Maybe my next transducer will work longer.

                                                       Dick Maddux

                                                       Fox 4

                                                       Milton,Fl



 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:49 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

Naahh Lynn, the Northstar folks said they would not take the old transducer back because it had gas in it. They are sending me a new one when they are caught up with the demand.

   Yeah that old transducer was looking at me like a pair of "Geico eyes" sitting on a pile of money. A good wacking was needed ! At least I now have a useful electrical cord and when they have "show and tell" I can show how a sending unit is made (along with my disassembled Rotax oil filter which was suppose to be so much better)

                                                 Dick Maddux

                                                 Milton,Fl

 

  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

Speaking of the fine Northstar flow gauge, I decided to shorten up  

the wire from the transducer to the gauge, and started to whack away  

at the molded-in wire connector at the connection to the pigtail. Now  

mind you, I was doing this in the afternoon, and my brain goes on  

vacation in the afternoon on most days. So I'm whittling away at this  

rubber, trying to be very careful not to cut into the wires where  

they connect to the socket (for want of a better word), and finally I  

get down to the connection points, and realize that there are only 3  

wires in the 5-wire connector, and then the light bulb turned  

on.....why the hell didn't I just chop the wire in half, take out  

what I didn't want, and then do a butt splice of the 2 wires and the  

shield....DUH! That's what I finally did, but I ruined the nice  

connector that Northstar had made in the meantime. I'm not the  

brightest bulb when it comes to 'lectrics, but I'm even dimmer in the  

afternoon.



(A little shrink tubing and hiding the buggered connector under other  

stuff made the ugly sight go away.)



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 749.6 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

do not archive



On Aug 31, 2009, at 5:42 AM, Catz631(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Naahh Lynn, the Northstar folks said they would not take the old  

 transducer back because it had gas in it. They are sending me a new  

 one when they are caught up with the demand.

   Yeah that old transducer was looking at me like a pair of "Geico  

 eyes" sitting on a pile of money. A good wacking was needed ! At  

 least I now have a useful electrical cord and when they have "show  

 and tell" I can show how a sending unit is made (along with my  

 disassembled Rotax oil filter which was suppose to be so much better)

                                                 Dick Maddux

                                                 Milton,Fl



 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

SkySteve

Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

I did the exact same thing, Lynn.  Then I got this wild idea:  "Why do I need the plug, anyway"?  So I cut the wire on both sides of the plug and hard wired it together, then to a panel fuse and "Walla" it works!!!

_________________
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer

Isn't it amazing what we can do when we think about these things? : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 749.6 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

do not archive



On Aug 31, 2009, at 2:30 PM, SkySteve wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I did the exact same thing, Lynn.  Then I got this wild idea:  "Why  

 do I need the plug, anyway"?  So I cut the wire on both sides of  

 the plug and hard wired it together, then to a panel fuse and  

 "Walla" it works!!!



 --------

 Steve Wilson

 Huntsville, UT

 Kitfox Model 1- 85DD

 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive

 Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 60659#260659

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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