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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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 Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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Now that my QB fuse arrived last week, I’m starting to get my mind around some of the systems and how I would like to lay them out.
I’ve got a couple of nagging questions.
<![if !supportLists]>1) <![endif]>Electrical – Has anyone developed any creative routes for the wire runs? Or is everyone stilling with the four ¾” holes (2 per side) under the mid-fuse deck.
<![if !supportLists]>2) <![endif]>Fuel – Why is everyone choosing the Andair fuel valve? Where’s the best place to pick one up?
<![if !supportLists]>3) <![endif]>O2 – I was thinking of putting an O2 bottle in the baggage compartment and then routing the lines into the Overhead Console from the rear. Then I could put a quick connect over each seat. Is that acceptable? Do they just hang in your face? I’m just trying to save as much room as I can with this routing, so I can save the space inside the ¾” holes mentioned in #1.
Thanks,
Phil
[quote][b]
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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Won day eye wheel learn how two type.
Corrections made below.
From: Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:48 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Planning Questions
Now that my QB fuse arrived last week, I’m starting to get my mind around some of the systems and how I would like to lay them out.
I’ve got a couple of nagging questions.
<![if !supportLists]>1) <![endif]>Electrical – Has anyone developed any creative routes for the wire runs? Or is everyone sticking with the four ¾” holes (2 per side) under the mid-fuse deck.
<![if !supportLists]>2) <![endif]>Fuel – Why is everyone choosing the Andair fuel valve? Where’s the best place to pick one up?
<![if !supportLists]>3) <![endif]>O2 – I was thinking of putting an O2 bottle in the baggage compartment and then routing the lines into the Overhead Console from the rear. Then I could put a quick connect over each seat. Is that acceptable? Do they just hang in your face? I’m just trying to save as much room as I can with this routing, so I can save the space inside the ¾” holes mentioned in #1.
Thanks,
Phil
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AirMike
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:07 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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Wiring runs are a big deal as is the static line run going from the rear to the panel. Van's pre-wire kit is a pretty good purchase at this point or at least install the #2 wire from the battery/s to the firewall. I also like the idea of installing the static line. Installed a few of the Van's conduits from the rear to the panel area. Put some pull tapes in the conduit to pull thru future wires. Remember the stuff that is in the aft area like the AHARS or Magnetometer, battery, Strobe system controller, aft strobes and antenna wires for Nav, and Com. Do not worry too much as your conduit will help if you forget anything.
I also like the idea of an inspection port for the boarding step (see prior post) or to just nut plate the rear panels.
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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I ended up with three holes on the right side and they are packed full of wire. For some reason I got more running down the right side. If you plan better than I did then you'll probably do okay with just 4 holes. The Andair valve is a superb piece of equipment. No comparison. The one supplied in the kit doesn't look in the same league. The valve is the one thing (okay C one of several) that I want to work perfectly every time. Dan
Subject: Planning Questions
Date: Mon C 14 Sep 2009 07:47:33 -0700
From: Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
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Now that my QB fuse arrived last week C I’m starting to get my mind around some of the systems and how I would like to lay them out.
I’ve got a couple of nagging questions.
1) Electrical – Has anyone developed any creative routes for the wire runs? Or is everyone stilling with the four ¾” holes (2 per side) under the mid-fuse deck.
2) Fuel – Why is everyone choosing the Andair fuel valve? Where’s the best place to pick one up?
3) O2 – I was thinking of putting an O2 bottle in the baggage compartment and then routing the lines into the Overhead Console from the rear. Then I could put a quick connect over each seat. Is that acceptable? Do they just hang in your face? I’m just trying to save as much room as I can with this routing C so I can save the space inside the ¾” holes mentioned in #1.
Thanks C
Phil
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up now. [quote][b]
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nukeflyboy
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Planning Questions |
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Your best best on the wiring runs is to plan ahead. Figure out your distribution scheme and how many wires you will need to run fore and aft. Then try to separate your power wires from your antenna/headset cables (left side - right side, for example). Keep any other sensitive systems away from strobe power supplies too. Once you have that figured out use all the holes in the fuselage and then drill some more. Protect the wires with grommets.
There is nothing wrong with the supplied fuel valve. Mine has worked just fine for 10 years. A lot of folks get the Andair valve just because they like it.
Your idea on the O2 will work just fine. The bottle can be mounted in the baggage compartment with a short jumper to a bulkhead fitting into a side panel (not the baggage bulkhead - it needs to be removable). Mountain High has the tubing and fittings to run the connections anywhere while keeping them out of sight behind the side panels or in the overhead console. Other suppliers probably have the same.
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RV-6 built and sold
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rv(at)thelefflers.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:25 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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Phil,
<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]> I have one ¾” and one 1 ¼” conduit on each side going to the back. I also have one ¾” on each side going to underneath the rear seats for comm antennas. This picture is on mykitlog site.
<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>Because of known issues with the standard Van’s valve. Unfortunately, the best place to get them is direct from Andair. ACS doesn’t stock them, but they will special order. The extender costs two arms and a leg. They change about an extra $100 for the extender.
<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>That would work. Another alternative is to put one of Geoff Combs’ Caron Fiber Center Arm Rest Consoles. He has a place inside the arm rest that you can put headset and oxygen jacks with the cables coming out at your waist. I think it solves both problems. Geoff’s website should be online later this week. Email me if you want more details.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:48 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Planning Questions
Now that my QB fuse arrived last week, I’m starting to get my mind around some of the systems and how I would like to lay them out.
I’ve got a couple of nagging questions.
<![if !supportLists]>1) <![endif]>Electrical – Has anyone developed any creative routes for the wire runs? Or is everyone stilling with the four ¾” holes (2 per side) under the mid-fuse deck.
<![if !supportLists]>2) <![endif]>Fuel – Why is everyone choosing the Andair fuel valve? Where’s the best place to pick one up?
<![if !supportLists]>3) <![endif]>O2 – I was thinking of putting an O2 bottle in the baggage compartment and then routing the lines into the Overhead Console from the rear. Then I could put a quick connect over each seat. Is that acceptable? Do they just hang in your face? I’m just trying to save as much room as I can with this routing, so I can save the space inside the ¾” holes mentioned in #1.
Thanks,
Phil
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:40 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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If you decide to roll your own electrical system, you might consider the following guidelines
(1) standardize on a limited number of wire sizes,; this will result in some wires carrying less than they could but will simplify your purchase of pieces in larger quantities. For example everyone is going to need about 20-25 ft of 002 gauge wire for the runs from the starting battery(ies). Other gauges can be purchased in 100 -500 ft lengths. I used 002, 8 14, 20, shielded 22 in triplets or quads.
(2) I chose to run DC down the left side of the aircraft and digital data down the right; obviously there were some exceptions due to location of the devices.
(3) For current or future use , both a primary and essential bus should be planned. B&C specialty provides power diodes for separation.
(4) For simplicity, each appliance can be controlled by a pull able or toggle breaker. Its a little more expensive but putting multiple devices per breaker and introducing additional switches limits flexibility and increase complication. It also makes troubleshooting more strait forward.
(5) Buy/borrow the necessary tools and buy the quality and quantity of terminals, butt connectors , dsub pins, etc.
(6) when using connectors and multiple shielded wires, triplets for example, document the use of each colored wire in each set of triplets.
(7) I have attached a picture of my primary and essential buses with connecting 35A toggle breaker and power diode.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:37 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Planning Questions
I ended up with three holes on the right side and they are packed full of wire. For some reason I got more running down the right side. If you plan better than I did then you'll probably do okay with just 4 holes. The Andair valve is a superb piece of equipment. No comparison. The one supplied in the kit doesn't look in the same league. The valve is the one thing (okay, one of several) that I want to work perfectly every time. Dan
Subject: Planning Questions
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:47:33 -0700
From: Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
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Now that my QB fuse arrived last week, I’m starting to get my mind around some of the systems and how I would like to lay them out.
I’ve got a couple of nagging questions.
1) Electrical – Has anyone developed any creative routes for the wire runs? Or is everyone stilling with the four ¾” holes (2 per side) under the mid-fuse deck.
2) Fuel – Why is everyone choosing the Andair fuel valve? Where’s the best place to pick one up?
3) O2 – I was thinking of putting an O2 bottle in the baggage compartment and then routing the lines into the Overhead Console from the rear. Then I could put a quick connect over each seat. Is that acceptable? Do they just hang in your face? I’m just trying to save as much room as I can with this routing, so I can save the space inside the ¾” holes mentioned in #1.
Thanks,
Phil
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up now. | Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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Watch the weight of the O2 system going aft of the baggage cutoff; unless
you have some significant weight forward you will probably run out of aft CG
when loading all seats. Consider an extra battery on the firewall, heaviest
prop. etc
--
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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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Wiring wise, what I did was get a copy of the Van's wiring kit and parts
list, use their plan as a starting point. Since I did a 2 batt, 2 alt,
Z-14, I basically doubled the Vans plan. Then laid in 2 empty conduits
that I couldn't figure out how to use. They are both now in use since
installing a GRT AHRS, Magnetometer, re-running the static line, and
other misc decisions. The Van's plans keep turning out to be extremely
valuable for this newbie - used it last night for FWF wiring ideas.
For electrical, buy an assortment of Adel clamps and those plastic
grommets. Beats trying to anticipate your next design decision.
I think I'll regret not putting in access doors for the steps. I bought
2 extra access hatch kits (for the stall warning access) to do the job
but got lazy. Look at Vans Strobe power supply kit and AHRS kit for easy
installation of those things back by the battery.
The Andair valve is REAL NICE in all respects; except, it may not be
easy to get exactly what you want, when you want it from the
manufacturer. They're a bit sluggish. You have to do some designing and
thinking around the valve though.
Bill "working but dreaming of building" Watson
40605
Perry, Phil wrote:
| Quote: |
Now that my QB fuse arrived last week, I’m starting to get my mind
around some of the systems and how I would like to lay them out.
I’ve got a couple of nagging questions.
1) Electrical – Has anyone developed any creative routes for the wire
runs? Or is everyone stilling with the four ¾” holes (2 per side)
under the mid-fuse deck.
2) Fuel – Why is everyone choosing the Andair fuel valve? Where’s the
best place to pick one up?
3) O2 – I was thinking of putting an O2 bottle in the baggage
compartment and then routing the lines into the Overhead Console from
the rear. Then I could put a quick connect over each seat. Is that
acceptable? Do they just hang in your face? I’m just trying to save as
much room as I can with this routing, so I can save the space inside
the ¾” holes mentioned in #1.
Thanks,
Phil
*
*
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nukeflyboy
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Planning Questions |
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Here are a couple photos to show what I said earlier. The blue tubing is for oxygen. Bulkhead fittings are used for plug-in points. The bottle sits on the baggage compartment floor and connects with its own bulkhead fitting. The bottle is portable for ease of filling and for use in the 6.
Separate your wires to minimize interference and run them where ever you need to.
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Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying |
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AirMike
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: Planning Questions |
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I forgot to mention one item that made my wiring much neater and easier to manage. That product is "Click Bond" - the small zip tie attach points are an awesome product. I spent about $100 on the very pricy attach points - worth every cent. If they are good enough for Boeing and Northrop - they are good enuf for me.
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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I did something similar. The stock adhesive backing is notorious for letting go over time on zip tie pads so I pulled the backing off of regular hardware store pads and used Goop to secure them instead. As long as both surfaces are clean, I wouldn't expect them to come off very easily.
Michael
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:18 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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Scuff the area where the click bond is to be placed. Clean with acetone
(both surfaces) Epoxy in place. Never off.
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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I had many, especially on the rougher primed surfaces, that
let go with the standard double-sided tape. Whenever I find
one that did, and on any new ones, I've been using E6000 glue
(Walmart and everywhere has it), which is something I first
heard about on the Aeroelectric list. It's basically the same
as goop, but I think it may set a little firmer. It's pretty
darn tough stuff...and I've used it for installing my NACA
vents, and my rudder trim fairing, and things like that. It's
plenty tough for holding zip-tie pads on and supporting wire
bundles, and it's cheap at probably under $3 a tube.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
[quote]
<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
I did something similar. The stock adhesive backing is notorious for
letting go over time on zip tie pads so I pulled the backing off of
regular hardware store pads and used Goop to secure them instead. As
long as both surfaces are clean, I wouldn't expect them to come off
very easily.
Michael
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:12 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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Yep, same stuff with a different name. Also works well to pot electrical components and waterproof them.
Michael
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: Planning Questions |
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On the wire runs, is everyone sticking with the standard 3/4" holes on
each side?
If they can be enlarged, how much? If you can add some holes below,
what size?
Thanks,
Phil
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nukeflyboy
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Planning Questions |
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Phil,
These holes are too big to enlarge and in an awkward location. Use what is there: get a good fitting rubber grommet to protect the wires then start filling them up. If you run out of space, drill another hole. Don't sweat it at this point. Everyone's distribution will be somewhat different so don't try to copy exactly.
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Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying |
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Jim Berry
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Planning Questions |
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Phil,
I asked Van's about enlarging the side holes, and they said up to 1" would be OK. I used a Greenlee punch from the electrical dept. of Home Depot.
Jim Berry
40482
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