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LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

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coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Tim,

   As always a great write-up, THANKS.  Also a good slide show to support

the info.  I'll be going up today to see what EGT I get at takeoff.



Marcus

40286



Do not archive



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Cool, will be nice to hear how it goes for you when you tune your

injectors. There's a side conversation that I've been having

with some people regarding LOP and planes that just can't

seem to run that way.  We're learning a little, and I'm sure

we'll report back fairly soon.  But, if you have an engine

that you just can't get to run LOP, you may want to drop

me a line.  We've found something that looks to be specific

to the James Cowl users that can cause some issues.  We're

still learning though.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Marcus Cooper wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Tim,

    As always a great write-up, THANKS.  Also a good slide show to support

 the info.  I'll be going up today to see what EGT I get at takeoff.

 

 Marcus

 40286

 

 Do not archive

 

 --

N777TY

Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

which James cowl? The regular one or the one for cold air induction?  they're slightly different.. 



just helped my buddy go through the hoops of getting the injectors tuned, and results seem to be good.. this is on a -10 /w James cowl + BPE cold air engine.. (2 mags... for now)

_________________
RV-7A
N777TY

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

I think on either....  The issue is seemingly with the airflow

blast coming in the round inlets, over the injectors.  A small

air dam to lessen the direct flow changed things a lot.

More info coming in the future...



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

N777TY wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 which James cowl? The regular one or the one for cold air induction?

 they're slightly different..

 

 just helped my buddy go through the hoops of getting the injectors

 tuned, and results seem to be good.. this is on a -10 /w James cowl +

 BPE cold air engine.. (2 mags... for now)

 

 -------- RV-7A N777TY

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 63230#263230

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

I have the standard inlets, but based on this list and Alan Barrett's

recommendation I put a small air dam in front of the front injector.

Raining down here this week so have not flown.  Will keep you posted.



Gary Specketer



--

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:04 am Post subject: Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

 	  speckter(at)comcast.net wrote: 	
		  I have the standard inlets, but based on this list and Alan Barrett's

recommendation I put a small air dam in front of the front injector.

Raining down here this week so have not flown.  Will keep you posted.



Gary Specketer



-- 	


Gary,

Any chance of you posting a picture or sending me one.  Plane gets out of the paint shop this weekend if WX cooperates and balancing is one of the items on my to-do list.

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Here's one.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

orchidman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 speckter(at)comcast.net wrote:

> I have the standard inlets, but based on this list and Alan

> Barrett's recommendation I put a small air dam in front of the

> front injector. Raining down here this week so have not flown.

> Will keep you posted.

> 

> Gary Specketer

> 

> --

 

 Gary, Any chance of you posting a picture or sending me one.  Plane

 gets out of the paint shop this weekend if WX cooperates and

 balancing is one of the items on my to-do list.

 

 -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 63496#263496

InjectorShield1.jpg

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Tim / Gary,



Please let us know your opinions of the results....



--

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

I've been slammed at work and have apparently missed something here...



Is the issue that incoming ram air is somehow disrupting the injector flow because of the air bleed hole in the injector itself?



Bob

RV-10 N442PM

--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Yep. It's either the airflow or the pressure.

There is ongoing research, and there is so much

email going on that it's too much for the list right now.

We're going to let a couple things happen so we can

summarize it and then post all the info for a reference

for future builders.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:

[quote] 

 <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>

 

 I've been slammed at work and have apparently missed something

 here...

 

 Is the issue that incoming ram air is somehow disrupting the injector

 flow because of the air bleed hole in the injector itself?

 

 Bob RV-10 N442PM

 

 

 --

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:04 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Great, thanks!  



Bob



Do Not Archive



--

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Some of us are having problems running LOP because the engine "stumbles"

when you go leaner than peak.  The theory is that cyl #2 is running super

lean because of the ram air infiltrating the injector.  The dam is an

attempt to  fix that.



Gary Specketer



--

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Isn't this something that you'd see on the EGT for that cylinder (peaking a lot sooner than the rest)?  Just to state the obvious, is it safe to assume that folks with the issue have checked the alignment of the air bleed hole in the injector to make sure that it's oriented appropriately?



Bob



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Yes, and yes.  It's visible on the EGT gauge, and yp, the holes all go

down.  THere's more to the story, but it gets so involve we don't

want to type it over and over again.  So waiting to get it all

compiled.

Tim



Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:

[quote] 

 <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>

 

 Isn't this something that you'd see on the EGT for that cylinder

 (peaking a lot sooner than the rest)?  Just to state the obvious, is

 it safe to assume that folks with the issue have checked the

 alignment of the air bleed hole in the injector to make sure that

 it's oriented appropriately?

 

 Bob

 

 --

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

No idea if this applies to me but thanks Tim for the research with this. You 

always seem to be in the leading edge of guidance.

Pascal

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:07 AM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

[quote] 

 Yes, and yes.  It's visible on the EGT gauge, and yp, the holes all go

 down.  THere's more to the story, but it gets so involve we don't

 want to type it over and over again.  So waiting to get it all

 compiled.

 Tim

 Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:

> 

> <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>

>

> Isn't this something that you'd see on the EGT for that cylinder

> (peaking a lot sooner than the rest)?  Just to state the obvious, is

> it safe to assume that folks with the issue have checked the

> alignment of the air bleed hole in the injector to make sure that

> it's oriented appropriately?

>

> Bob

>

> --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

This particular one isn't so much me doing the work as it is

others...I'm just participating.  I did that LOP write up and

it all went well.  There were others with issues that couldn't

run LOP....and some that had running problems even ROP slightly.

So we started a pretty email intensive discussion group and

piled on experiences and knowledgebase.  People like Jason

Kreidler, Deems, Robin Marks, and others are to be commended

as well.  With the combined reports and some trials of ideas

by them, we're digging through the issues that they're having.

The common thread is the James Cowl, so that got us head

scratching...but I remembered some things from previous online

reading that were helpful too.  So we're going through a big

discussion and trying some ideas in order to get those

cowls to run LOP and run well in general, just like what

I've been experiencing.

It will be interesting in the end.  I have gained a lot of

info too, because most of them are also using AFP injection,

and there are minor differences.

Sorry to not spread too much info right now, but really,

there is so much info and email that it would overwhelm

everyone and you would just have trouble sifting through and

keeping things straight anyway.  So we're going to make a

couple planes run real well, and then report on what it took,

and what issues there were...so that others can get there.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Pascal wrote:

[quote] 

 No idea if this applies to me but thanks Tim for the research with this. 

 You always seem to be in the leading edge of guidance.

 Pascal

 --------------------------------------------------

 From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

 Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:07 AM

 To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Re: Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

> 

>

> Yes, and yes.  It's visible on the EGT gauge, and yp, the holes all go

> down.  THere's more to the story, but it gets so involve we don't

> want to type it over and over again.  So waiting to get it all

> compiled.

> Tim

>

> Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:

>> 

>> <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>

>>

>> Isn't this something that you'd see on the EGT for that cylinder

>> (peaking a lot sooner than the rest)?  Just to state the obvious, is

>> it safe to assume that folks with the issue have checked the

>> alignment of the air bleed hole in the injector to make sure that

>> it's oriented appropriately?

>>

>> Bob

>>

>> --

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:47 am Post subject: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

Does anyone have a picture of this "air dam".

 Thanks, Don 



--- On Thu, 9/17/09, gary <speckter(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: gary <speckter(at)comcast.net>

Subject: RE: Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 5:43 AM



 --> RV10-List message posted by: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net (speckter(at)comcast.net)>



I have the standard inlets, but based on this list and Alan Barrett's

recommendation I put a small air dam in front of the front injector.

Raining down here this week so have not flown.  Will keep you posted.



Gary Specketer



--

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 881
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning

There's a photo about 6 posts up.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

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