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RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

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kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Hi  

    

   

    

I am been fretting over the -10 door opening events ever since I first heard about them. I don't think an unlatched door should be catastrophic nor do I think we should rely solely on memory (doing a check) to be our first and last line of defence. I have on a couple of occasions, left my Cherokee door unlatched on takeoff. It was at worst a minor inconvenience and I have since mastered the art of latching it in flight (safely).  

    

   

    

All that being said, I have been trolling the archives looking for various solutions. None seemed to fit my *must* requirements which are:  

    Any interlock should be operable from the outside      of the aircraft. This is a huge safety issue - I don't want to be trapped      in an a/c after an accident.  
It should not operate if the doors are not aligned      correctly for proper latching (this would prevent misaligned doors from      being appearing to be closed when not)   
It should not make door operation more difficult      (i.e. stiffer / harder to latch / more steps)  
It should be easily installed  
It should be mechanically simple     

A very nice to have requirement is that it should operate is that it should automagically operate when the door is closed.  

   

Attached is a side view sketch of a design that came about after I saw how Steve Deniri integrated his billet handles into the -10 door. Basically it involves a 1/8" "knife blade" piece of AL (steel?) that drop into a notch in the door sill as the door is latched. There is a guide block embedded in the door that would cause the blade to swing down the door is latched or swing up as it is unlatched. For those who haven't seen Steve's system, he uses a saddle which is pop rivettted to the door tubes to cause a lever to be moved when the door tubes moved.   

    

   

    

My thought is that the if the receiving slot in the door sill is just a little oversized as compared to the knife blade, the should be little or no more extra effort required to latch / unlatch the door.   

    

   

    

I would also ensure that the blade could not be forced down into the receiving slot if the door was open too far for the door pins to engage the door locks. This just a matter of alignment and positioning.     

    

The receiving block would be attached to the inside of the door using threaded screws. I would think that if the receiving block was made of sandwiched 1/4" thick AL, fabrication wouldn't be too difficult.  

    

   

    

After noodling the sketch for a while, I think it would be best if this was installed in the aft 1/3 of the door, mirror image of what is shown. That way if the door was being pushed back, the knife blade would not be pulled out of the door sill notch.   

    

   

    

Anyway, I am just a dumb ^*%^ accountant and not an engineer. I would appreciate any comments before I try to fab a prototype of the RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock.  

    

   

    

Cheers  

    

   

    

Les  

    

#40643 - Happily distracted from f/g hell

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kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Hi   

   

I am not sure if my post below didn’t come through due to the size of the attachment. I have shrunk the sketch so perhaps this will work now.  

   

Cheers  

   

Les  

   

         

  

From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca] 

 Sent: October-03-09 12:12 PM

 To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'

 Subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock  

  

     

Hi  

    

   

    

I am been fretting over the -10 door opening events ever since I first heard about them. I don't think an unlatched door should be catastrophic nor do I think we should rely solely on memory (doing a check) to be our first and last line of defence. I have on a couple of occasions, left my Cherokee door unlatched on takeoff. It was at worst a minor inconvenience and I have since mastered the art of latching it in flight (safely).  

    

   

    

All that being said, I have been trolling the archives looking for various solutions. None seemed to fit my *must* requirements which are:  

    Any interlock should be operable from the      outside of the aircraft. This is a huge safety issue - I don't want to be      trapped in an a/c after an accident.  
It should not operate if the doors are not      aligned correctly for proper latching (this would prevent misaligned doors      from being appearing to be closed when not)   
It should not make door operation more difficult      (i.e. stiffer / harder to latch / more steps)  
It should be easily installed  
It should be mechanically simple     

A very nice to have requirement is that it should operate is that it should automagically operate when the door is closed.  

   

Attached is a side view sketch of a design that came about after I saw how Steve Deniri integrated his billet handles into the -10 door. Basically it involves a 1/8" "knife blade" piece of AL (steel?) that drop into a notch in the door sill as the door is latched. There is a guide block embedded in the door that would cause the blade to swing down the door is latched or swing up as it is unlatched. For those who haven't seen Steve's system, he uses a saddle which is pop rivettted to the door tubes to cause a lever to be moved when the door tubes moved.   

    

   

    

My thought is that the if the receiving slot in the door sill is just a little oversized as compared to the knife blade, the should be little or no more extra effort required to latch / unlatch the door.   

    

   

    

I would also ensure that the blade could not be forced down into the receiving slot if the door was open too far for the door pins to engage the door locks. This just a matter of alignment and positioning.     

    

The receiving block would be attached to the inside of the door using threaded screws. I would think that if the receiving block was made of sandwiched 1/4" thick AL, fabrication wouldn't be too difficult.  

    

   

    

After noodling the sketch for a while, I think it would be best if this was installed in the aft 1/3 of the door, mirror image of what is shown. That way if the door was being pushed back, the knife blade would not be pulled out of the door sill notch.   

    

   

    

Anyway, I am just a dumb ^*%^ accountant and not an engineer. I would appreciate any comments before I try to fab a prototype of the RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock.  

    

   

    

Cheers  

    

   

    

Les  

    

#40643 - Happily distracted from f/g hell

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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

This is similar to what Mike and I were discussing this  morning. Except that the vertical piece would also be a beveled pin of the same  material and the rear pin and vertical pin would be driven on a cam where the  vertical pin would precede the rear pin slightly so that the vertical pin would  pull in the rear portion of the door and the cam would also allow greater  penetration of the rear vertical piece. failure of the vertical piece to insert  would prevent closing the handle but closing it would ensure that both rear pins  are inserted. People still do the same thing. Both inside and outside there is  but one handle action to open/close the door. This said I will still close and  check the doors. 

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les  Kearney

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 11:12 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock

Hi

I am been fretting over the -10 door  opening events ever since I first heard about them. I don't think an unlatched  door should be catastrophic nor do I think we should rely solely on memory  (doing a check) to be our first and last line of defence. I have on a couple of  occasions, left my Cherokee door unlatched on takeoff. It was at worst a  minor inconvenience and I have since mastered the art of latching it in flight  (safely).

All that being said, I have been  trolling the archives looking for various solutions. None seemed to fit my  *must* requirements which  are:

    Any    interlock should be operable from the outside of the aircraft. This is a huge    safety issue - I don't want to be trapped in an a/c after an    accident.    
It should    not operate if the doors are not aligned correctly for proper latching (this    would prevent misaligned doors from being appearing to be closed when not)       
It should    not make door operation more difficult (i.e. stiffer / harder to latch / more    steps)    
It should    be easily installed    
It should    be mechanically simple   

A very nice to have requirement is  that it should operate is that it should automagically operate when the door is  closed. 

Attached is a side view sketch of a  design that came about after I saw how Steve Deniri integrated his billet  handles into the -10 door. Basically it involves a 1/8" "knife blade" piece of  AL (steel?)  that drop into a notch in the door sill as the door is latched. There is a guide  block embedded in the door that would cause the blade to swing down the door is  latched or swing up as it is unlatched. For those who haven't seen Steve's  system, he uses a saddle which is pop rivettted to the door tubes to cause a  lever to be moved when the door tubes moved. 

My thought is that the if  the receiving slot in the door sill is just a little oversized as compared  to the knife blade, the should be little or no more extra effort required to  latch / unlatch the door. 

I would also ensure that  the blade could not be forced down into the receiving slot if the door was  open too far for the door pins to engage the door locks. This just a matter  of alignment and positioning.   

The receiving block would be  attached to the inside of the door using threaded screws. I would think that if  the receiving block was made of sandwiched 1/4" thick AL, fabrication wouldn't  be too difficult.

After noodling the sketch for a  while, I think it would be best if this was installed in the aft 1/3 of the  door, mirror image of what is shown. That way if the door was being pushed  back, the knife blade would not be pulled out of the door sill  notch. 

Anyway, I am just a dumb ^*%^  accountant and not an engineer. I would appreciate any comments before I try to  fab a prototype of the RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock.

Cheers

Les

#40643 - Happily distracted from f/g  hell

   [quote][b]

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

I'm receiving my finish kit next week and will look over the door latches.  I have flown in RV-10's and I've seen all of the discussions.  I am building my plane in my father's machine shop.  Maybe I will try something different.  If anyone has good ideas for the latch before bonding the doors, I'm listening.  

Could you put the latch more in the middle of the door and machine a new part on the inside that could move a third pin through the bottom of the door?

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

David  

   

I thought about a cam but couldn’t see how to make it work because of the interference with the long tubes in the door. I am interested in seeing what you have in mind; I am always looking to borrow better ideas.  

   

Cheers  

   

Les   

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill

 Sent: October-03-09 2:27 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock  

  

   

This is similar to what Mike and I were discussing this morning. Except that the vertical piece would also be a beveled pin of the same material and the rear pin and vertical pin would be driven on a cam where the vertical pin would precede the rear pin slightly so that the vertical pin would pull in the rear portion of the door and the cam would also allow greater penetration of the rear vertical piece. failure of the vertical piece to insert would prevent closing the handle but closing it would ensure that both rear pins are inserted. People still do the same thing. Both inside and outside there is but one handle action to open/close the door. This said I will still close and check the doors.   

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney

 Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 11:12 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock    

Hi  

    

   

    

I am been fretting over the -10 door opening events ever since I first heard about them. I don't think an unlatched door should be catastrophic nor do I think we should rely solely on memory (doing a check) to be our first and last line of defence. I have on a couple of occasions, left my Cherokee door unlatched on takeoff. It was at worst a minor inconvenience and I have since mastered the art of latching it in flight (safely).  

    

   

    

All that being said, I have been trolling the archives looking for various solutions. None seemed to fit my *must* requirements which are:  

    Any interlock should be operable from the      outside of the aircraft. This is a huge safety issue - I don't want to be      trapped in an a/c after an accident.   
It should not operate if the doors are not      aligned correctly for proper latching (this would prevent misaligned doors      from being appearing to be closed when not)   
It should not make door operation more difficult      (i.e. stiffer / harder to latch / more steps)   
It should be easily installed   
It should be mechanically simple      

A very nice to have requirement is that it should operate is that it should automagically operate when the door is closed.  

   

Attached is a side view sketch of a design that came about after I saw how Steve Deniri integrated his billet handles into the -10 door. Basically it involves a 1/8" "knife blade" piece of AL (steel?) that drop into a notch in the door sill as the door is latched. There is a guide block embedded in the door that would cause the blade to swing down the door is latched or swing up as it is unlatched. For those who haven't seen Steve's system, he uses a saddle which is pop rivettted to the door tubes to cause a lever to be moved when the door tubes moved.   

    

   

    

My thought is that the if the receiving slot in the door sill is just a little oversized as compared to the knife blade, the should be little or no more extra effort required to latch / unlatch the door.   

    

   

    

I would also ensure that the blade could not be forced down into the receiving slot if the door was open too far for the door pins to engage the door locks. This just a matter of alignment and positioning.     

    

The receiving block would be attached to the inside of the door using threaded screws. I would think that if the receiving block was made of sandwiched 1/4" thick AL, fabrication wouldn't be too difficult.  

    

   

    

After noodling the sketch for a while, I think it would be best if this was installed in the aft 1/3 of the door, mirror image of what is shown. That way if the door was being pushed back, the knife blade would not be pulled out of the door sill notch.   

    

   

    

Anyway, I am just a dumb ^*%^ accountant and not an engineer. I would appreciate any comments before I try to fab a prototype of the RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock.  

    

   

    

Cheers  

    

   

    

Les  

    

#40643 - Happily distracted from f/g hell  

    

   

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       [quote][b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Someone else has already suggested this, but I've thought about it and like it:



You can get 90% of the way to a better latch by simply removing the racks from the handle mechanism, and substituting longer ones (about an inch longer). They should be so long that the 'door open' position of the inside handle is now nearly full aft, or maybe even more. What this does is gives you much more pin engagement - over an inch, instead of 1/4", of solid pin thru the door frame. This may be enough to hold the door even if one pin "missed" and is outside the door.



Thoughts?

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

I haven't discussed with the engineer yet but first glance  suggests that because the low placement of the rear pin that a twin gear/cam  would be required near the aft end; this would require locating the door  penetration pin higher in the rear door frame. I do agree that whatever solution  that is to be implemented, it must remain a single motion lever (3 pin,  fore,aft, down) to open the door whether inside or out. Also its apparent that  any change will necessitate a large 4" by 4"? access panel attached to the door  by screws for installation and adjustment  From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les  Kearney

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 3:58 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock

David 

I thought about a cam  but couldn’t see how to make it work because of the interference with the long  tubes in the door. I am interested in seeing what you have in mind; I am always  looking to borrow better ideas. 

Cheers 

Les   

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill

Sent: October-03-09 2:27 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock

This is similar to what  Mike and I were discussing this morning. Except that the vertical piece would  also be a beveled pin of the same material and the rear pin and vertical pin  would be driven on a cam where the vertical pin would precede the rear pin  slightly so that the vertical pin would pull in the rear portion of the door and  the cam would also allow greater penetration of the rear vertical piece.  failure of the vertical piece to insert would prevent closing the handle but  closing it would ensure that both rear pins are inserted. People still do the  same thing. Both inside and outside there is but one handle action to open/close  the door. This said I will still close and check the  doors.  

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 11:12  AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock  

Hi

I am been fretting over the -10 door  opening events ever since I first heard about them. I don't think an unlatched  door should be catastrophic nor do I think we should rely solely on memory  (doing a check) to be our first and last line of defence. I have on a couple of  occasions, left my Cherokee door unlatched on takeoff. It was at worst a  minor inconvenience and I have since mastered the art of latching it in flight  (safely).

All that being said, I have been  trolling the archives looking for various solutions. None seemed to fit my  *must* requirements which  are:

    Any    interlock should be operable from the outside of the aircraft. This is a huge    safety issue - I don't want to be trapped in an a/c after an    accident.    
It should    not operate if the doors are not aligned correctly for proper latching (this    would prevent misaligned doors from being appearing to be closed when not)       
It should    not make door operation more difficult (i.e. stiffer / harder to latch / more    steps)    
It should    be easily installed    
It should    be mechanically simple   

A very nice to have requirement is  that it should operate is that it should automagically operate when the door is  closed. 

Attached is a side view sketch of a  design that came about after I saw how Steve Deniri integrated his billet  handles into the -10 door. Basically it involves a 1/8" "knife blade" piece of  AL (steel?)  that drop into a notch in the door sill as the door is latched. There is a guide  block embedded in the door that would cause the blade to swing down the door is  latched or swing up as it is unlatched. For those who haven't seen Steve's  system, he uses a saddle which is pop rivettted to the door tubes to cause a  lever to be moved when the door tubes moved. 

My thought is that the if  the receiving slot in the door sill is just a little oversized as compared  to the knife blade, the should be little or no more extra effort required to  latch / unlatch the door. 

I would also ensure that  the blade could not be forced down into the receiving slot if the door was  open too far for the door pins to engage the door locks. This just a matter  of alignment and positioning.   

The receiving block would be  attached to the inside of the door using threaded screws. I would think that if  the receiving block was made of sandwiched 1/4" thick AL, fabrication wouldn't  be too difficult.

After noodling the sketch for a  while, I think it would be best if this was installed in the aft 1/3 of the  door, mirror image of what is shown. That way if the door was being pushed  back, the knife blade would not be pulled out of the door sill  notch. 

Anyway, I am just a dumb ^*%^  accountant and not an engineer. I would appreciate any comments before I try to  fab a prototype of the RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock.

Cheers

Les

#40643 - Happily distracted from f/g  hell

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bhughes(at)qnsi.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Here's a link to something similar. The vertical pin would  need latch inside the fiberglass door frame. The cam \ gears would need to be  offset inward. 

  

 http://www.express-builder.com/forum/messages/2/80.html?1138244699   Pics at the bottom of page.

  

 Bobby Hughes

  



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David  McNeill

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:27 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock

 

 This is similar to what Mike and I were discussing this  morning. Except that the vertical piece would also be a beveled pin of the same  material and the rear pin and vertical pin would be driven on a cam where the  vertical pin would precede the rear pin slightly so that the vertical pin would  pull in the rear portion of the door and the cam would also allow greater  penetration of the rear vertical piece. failure of the vertical piece to insert  would prevent closing the handle but closing it would ensure that both rear pins  are inserted. People still do the same thing. Both inside and outside there is  but one handle action to open/close the door. This said I will still close and  check the doors. 



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les  Kearney

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 11:12 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock

 

   

Hi

  

 

  

I am been fretting over the -10 door  opening events ever since I first heard about them. I don't think an unlatched  door should be catastrophic nor do I think we should rely solely on memory  (doing a check) to be our first and last line of defence. I have on a couple of  occasions, left my Cherokee door unlatched on takeoff. It was at worst a  minor inconvenience and I have since mastered the art of latching it in flight  (safely).

  

 

  

All that being said, I have been  trolling the archives looking for various solutions. None seemed to fit my  *must* requirements which  are:

    Any interlock should be operable    from the outside of the aircraft. This is a huge safety issue - I don't want    to be trapped in an a/c after an accident.    
It should not operate if the doors    are not aligned correctly for proper latching (this would prevent misaligned    doors from being appearing to be closed when not)    
It should not make door operation    more difficult (i.e. stiffer / harder to latch / more    steps)    
It should be easily    installed    
It should be mechanically    simple   

A very nice to have requirement is  that it should operate is that it should automagically operate when the door is  closed. 

  

Attached is a side view sketch of a  design that came about after I saw how Steve Deniri integrated his billet  handles into the -10 door. Basically it involves a 1/8" "knife blade" piece of  AL (steel?)  that drop into a notch in the door sill as the door is latched. There is a guide  block embedded in the door that would cause the blade to swing down the door is  latched or swing up as it is unlatched. For those who haven't seen Steve's  system, he uses a saddle which is pop rivettted to the door tubes to cause a  lever to be moved when the door tubes moved. 

  

 

  

My thought is that the if  the receiving slot in the door sill is just a little oversized as compared  to the knife blade, the should be little or no more extra effort required to  latch / unlatch the door. 

  

 

  

I would also ensure that  the blade could not be forced down into the receiving slot if the door was  open too far for the door pins to engage the door locks. This just a matter  of alignment and positioning.   

  

The receiving block would be  attached to the inside of the door using threaded screws. I would think that if  the receiving block was made of sandwiched 1/4" thick AL, fabrication wouldn't  be too difficult.

  

 

  

After noodling the sketch for a  while, I think it would be best if this was installed in the aft 1/3 of the  door, mirror image of what is shown. That way if the door was being pushed  back, the knife blade would not be pulled out of the door sill  notch. 

  

 

  

Anyway, I am just a dumb ^*%^  accountant and not an engineer. I would appreciate any comments before I try to  fab a prototype of the RV10 Mark 1 Door  Interlock.

  

 

  

Cheers

  

 

  

Les

  

#40643 - Happily distracted from f/g  hell

  

 



[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

I have always thought a round geared crank style door lock that would allow for extending pins an unlimited length into the door  frame and fuselage completely eliminating the concerns related to the door pins barely engaging. Not that dissimilar to a bank vault which has locking pins extending in all directions. My concept would require a cranking motion to both engage and disengage the door pins. I have a multi geared version of this concept in my mind but it seems like most things in aviation are best left as simple as possible.  

In this concept the rotating knob can be located in a number of different locations on the door. The handle can be as simple as an old VW window crank or as premium as a milled stainless steel disk with spring loaded self retracting crank handle. I do not know if this is an appropriate mechanism for door latching or if it has some negative implications in the event of an emergency extraction.  

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CA445B.AD52FC10[/img]  

   

For those that are still concerned about three pins holding the door in place I have a deluxe model in mind. J  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CA445B.FA165240[/img]  

   

Robin

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tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Along similar lines, how about a small bell crank attached to one of the rods to extend/retract a vertical pin?  Just food for thought.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

bhughes(at)qnsi.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

A bell crank should provide an inward offset that would keep the

vertical pin throw short. The vertical pin would mate into an aluminum

guide like the ones some of us are using. The guide would be place

inward of the lower fiberglass door frame and bolted to the aluminum.

This should allow for easy retrofit and small alignment adjustments. A

small cover \ access plate would be needed to cover the bell crank gears

in the door shell and hide the vertical pin. Something like a large

rudder cable fairing would work for the plate.



Bobby 



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Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Robin, I knew you were going to pipe in with something cool.

The Citation, being pressurized, has 12 pins that engage into the outer door structure.  It has the bellcrank style with all of the pushrods coming from the center of the door. The pins are pointed at the ends and the holes in the outer structure are adjustable.



 If you made the pins slanted they could pull the door tight against the seal.

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Thanks Sean,

	Not too many comments on the practicality (and simplicity) of

this design. Does anyone see any glairing problems or issues with this

concept? It seems (to me) like a simpler package than the standard vans

unit or the aftermarket door handles. 



Robin 

--

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Robin, I'll take two of the deluxe models!!!!!!!!!!    My wife and I laughed our selves silly... thanks.

 Don and Kim McDonald



--- On Sat, 10/3/09, Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>

Subject: RE: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 7:06 PM



       

I have always thought a round geared crank style door lock that would allow for extending pins an unlimited length into the door  frame and fuselage completely eliminating the concerns related to the door pins barely engaging. Not that dissimilar to a bank vault which has locking pins extending in all directions. My concept would require a cranking motion to both engage and disengage the door pins. I have a multi geared version of this concept in my mind but it seems like most things in aviation are best left as simple as possible.

 

In this concept the rotating knob can be located in a number of different locations on the door. The handle can be as simple as an old VW window crank or as premium as a milled stainless steel disk with spring loaded self retracting crank handle. I do not know if this is an appropriate mechanism for door latching or if it has some negative implications in the event of an emergency extraction.

 

 

 

[img]cid:1.1688270691(at)web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com[/img]

 

 

 

For those that are still concerned about three pins holding the door in place I have a deluxe model in mind. J

 

[img]cid:2.1688270692(at)web53707.mail.re2.yahoo.com[/img]

 

 

 

Robin

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_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

We need a hatch with explosive bolts... Gus Grissom

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

rbibb

Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 37

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

The thing I don’t like about a vertical down pin is that, due to its location in the window sill area, it will collect water when it rains and you open the door on the ramp.  The water will go someplace and likely lead to long tern corrosion internally to the fuselage side (probably behind some upholstery.  

   

I’ve been kicking around in my head a different approach that I hope to draw up soon and will offer it for comment to the group.  Since I’m not building the doors yet I don’t even have the actual parts to measure to make drawings that will actually work but I’m close enough to make conceptual drawings at least.  

   

Richard Bibb  

972-771-2598  

972-835-5979 mobile  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald

 Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 7:47 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock  

       [quote][b]

Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Reminder of another useful thread on this subject.



http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t 6526&highlight=v

iljoen

cheers,

Ron

VH-XRM

flying in Oz



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nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

I am currently working on my doors and have been following this with interest.  Here are a couple observations.



I like the idea of deeper engagement into the cabin/fuselage structure and the pins can be made to do this.  As suggested earlier you can trim the racks a little bigger than the plans call for to give a bigger "throw" to the lever.



There is a limit to this however.  With the pins retracted the back side of the rack hits the elbow cavity, the dished in portion of the door.  There is limited space in the door interior because of that cavity.  The most you can add to the length of the rack is an additional 5/16 inch.  Nevertheless that is another 5/16 inch engagement of the pins.



The door latch lever does come back further when opening as a result, maybe another 30 degrees.  This could be a problem if you had a large elbow rest installed on the door.



Most of the ideas I have seen will require a major modification to the door.  In particular that elbow cavity will have to go to make room for all of the mechanisms.  I don't want to personally go there.  With the door seal from Alex you can have a door that will close correctly every time.  The pins naturally align correctly with no outward bow to the aft part of the door.  I have seen it on Debbie Dewey's airplane.

_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: Re: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

I think I will still try to work on a vertical pin.  It just seems the easiest with no other latches and still be easy for the passenger to close.  I will still check it and have dummy lights. 

I could machine a pocket for the vertical pin so water or anything else couldn't find its way into the aircraft.  You could unscrew the pocket to empty it if it got foreign objects or water in it.

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: RV10 Mark 1 Door Interlock

Or Wet/Dry Shop Vacuum it out. 

I like some form or 3rd pin concept.



Robin

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