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Dan's Switches
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messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: Dan's Switches

Hello!



I've done a fair amount of crimping and a little soldering while wiring my instrument panel mockup,  and have a few questions. Maybe posting one or two pics per post will work. This is for my Jabiru 3300 Sonex with a standard ~30 degree tilted panel. I've put a piano hinge along the bottom and top with a few nutplates to go on the side. The tank and glareshield are removed. Tank has roughly the same cross section as the panel face, starts about a foot in front of the panel to the firewall.

panel front.jpg

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Dan

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

This pic is from the left side looking right, with the panel tilted forward. Some have had interference problems with the top of the Enigma hitting the glare shield, but mine just fits.



At the top of the pic you can see the cover for the main buss. It's mocked up to fit on the underside of the glare shield. Taking out the top hinge pin will let it swing down for easier access. On the bottom side of the cover I've mounted a section of ground tabs.

panel pivoted.jpg

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Dan

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

This is with the panel in the closed position. The channel that the lower piano hinge attaches to is 025 with either 1/2" or 3/4" flanges. Some of the  longer wires, like the blue one in the foreground, can be tucked away from the flange. There are a few shorter wires that need to have a zip tie pull them up and away, or maybe ben up the switch terminals. The 3rd switch back is a good example. It has a white and red wire resting on the flange.



In the foreground is my security switch for the starter button, mentioned in earlier posts.

switch gang.jpg

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Dan

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

Since a DPDT switch is the same size and almost the same price as a SPST, I thought I could increase switch reliability by putting in 2-3 instead of 1-3 switches. The pic shows one for a magneto lead. I separated the shield and put blue heatshrink on the braid and covered the junction with a piece of clear heatshrink.

shielded mag wire to 2-3 switch.jpg

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Dan

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

Last week I crimped connections betwen my regulator and alternator relay. The Jabiru regulator comes with a harness or whatever you call the plastic thing with 6 male faston blades inside. Besides being a bit cramped in there, one of the blades is a bit loose. I think it just got pushed or pulled out of its socket, since I can't budge the female-male faston connection. For this reason I'm thinking of cutting off the plastic harness (and tabs, if needed) to free up the individual wires.



I also realize the fastons to the relay aren't in all the way. And it needs a diode.

regulator fastons.jpg

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Dan

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

Hi Dan,

Nice pictures.  It looks like you are doing a good wiring job.  You said that you had a few questions but I did not see any.  Thanks for pointing out the location of the security switch.  I always wanted a Sonex.    Actually I am building a RV-12.  Keep up the good work.

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:02 am Post subject: Dan's Switches

At 05:32 PM 11/20/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Since a DPDT switch is the same size and almost the same price as a 

SPST, I thought I could increase switch reliability by putting in 

2-3 instead of 1-3 switches.


	


   But if one half of the switch fails, how will you

   know it? Don't confuse reliability with longevity.

   Reliability for your flight system (of which YOU

   are a component) is achieved by a combination of

   understanding, skill, failure tolerant design

   and preventative maintenance that takes up the

   slack for issues of longevity/service-life.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH!    )

        ( Do your part to keep this marvelous  )

        ( tool sharp and available to all our  )

        ( brothers in the OBAM aviation        )

        ( community.                           )

         ---------------------------------------

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

Dan,

I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg.  Unless it will be necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you could eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons.  One of the regulator wires could go directly to the relay.  The other wires could be butt spliced like this: 	  Code: 	
		  http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.html 	


Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

dave.gribble(at)mchsi.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:25 am Post subject: Dan's Switches

Dan - your pictures and wiring look great, congrats!



It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of the insulated faston terminals.  Is that for additional strain relief?



dave  

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com>

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 

 

 Dan,

I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg.  Unless it will be 
	


necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you could 

eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons.  One of the regulator wires 

could go directly to the relay.  The other wires could be butt spliced like 

this:http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.

 	  Quote: 	
		   html

 Joe

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 74077#274077

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

With a Double Pole switch wired in parallel, one will not know when one half fails because the circuit will still operate with only half of the switch working.  If at some point the second half of the switch fails, then the pilot will not be any worse off then if a single-pole switch had failed.  Theoretically a DP switch wired in parallel will last longer than a SP switch because each half only carries half of the current.  As corrosion forms, the resistance of contacts in parallel will be half.  Has anyone, perhaps a switch manufacturer, done experiments to determine the longevity of a DP switch wired in parallel compared to a SP switch?  It is easier to install a longer-lived switch during panel build while the circuit is fresh in mind, and while the components are easily accessible.  Is it worth the extra cost and weight and time to install a double pole switch in an attempt to delay future trouble shooting and difficult replacing of switches?

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

Good points, Bob and Joe.



Another issue is what route to take and how to fasten  the wire bundle going from the firewall to the channel behind the instrument panel. Many have used the zip tie bases and simply glued them on. But I would like to see if I could do without glue that might let loose sometime in the future, especially in such a hard to reach place.



From my firewall bulkhead fitting to the side panel is about 12". This fitting is just out of view on the left of the pic. I would use the same zip tie anchors but fasten them with SS rivets through the firewall. 2 or 3 should do with zip ties also spaced between the anchors.



Then, instead of the side panel, I could use the 1/8" angle to support the anchors or clamps shown in the first 3 arrows in the pic. There would only be 3 or 4 inches between the anchors. After the upright angle I could go 8" to the bottom of the cover for the buss box, or follow the fat wire through the box itself, since there'd be room . The buss box cover will be fastened to the underside of the glare shield 2 or 3 inches behind the tank.  Then the bundle would go another 4" and drop into the instrument panel tray.



I had shied away from using the upper longeron as support, but now I think that may be a better route. Instead of going to the buss box, I could simply rivet angle clips every 3 or 4 inches along the longeron to the panel tray. I could use either zip tie bases riveted to these clips, or use Adel clamps. 



How does this sound?

first bundling side.jpg

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Dan

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

 	  Quote: 	
		  It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief? 	




The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated only. Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the plastic could have been poked through. To be safe, I figured I'd best put on heatshrink, which could also be extended to cover the whole terminal. In some areas it also helps as a strain relief. Other areas I actually had to cutoff some of the heatshrink because this prevented it from bending as tight as I needed, like behind the switches. And putting on the heatshrink is pretty fast and fun, too!

_________________
Dan

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

Brian Carpenter from Rainbow Aviation, an A&P who teaches the E-LSA course, taught our class that wire ties should not be used to support wires.  Their purpose is only to keep wires in a neat bundle.  Adel clamps or other means should be used for support.  At work in an industrial environment, I have seen many of those sticky wire-tie bases fall off after a period of time.

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

 	  Quote: 	
		  wire ties should not be used to support wires 	




Seems to me a zip tie fastened to a tie base could fail where the base attaches to the structure, the two little plastic rods of the base where the tie slips under, or the zip tie itself. I think doing what I did in the pic below remedies the base to structure problem. I just bent a piece of 025 and riveted through the hole in the middle of the base. That's not gonna come off. In this particular shot, I made the angle clip 2.5" to the rivet. I could shorten that to 1", but 2.5" gives it more room between the clip and tank, since the sides of the tank angle down and toward the center. So if I had to service this item, it wouldn't be too hard...as long as I could still do a Fosbury Flop under the tank!



So the question is, could the zip tie or little base rod break? If so, I'd opt for the metal clamp. I suppose I'd still want the angle clip to give me clearance. Just replace the plastic base and tie with an Adel clamp.... and pray I don't ever have to mess with the dang screws later!

longeron bundle angle clip.jpg

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Dan

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: Dan's Switches

At 10:31 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Good points, Bob and Joe.



Another issue is what route to take and how to fasten  the wire 

bundle going from the firewall to the channel behind the instrument 

panel. Many have used the zip tie bases and simply glued them on. 

But I would like to see if I could do without glue that might let 

loose sometime in the future, especially in such a hard to reach place.


	


   There ARE bond-studs that can be used to attach non-structural

   components to the airframe without drilling holes.



   See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Bond_Studs.pdf



   There are aerospace grade, fast-setting bond studs

   too . . . but you don't even want to know what they

   cost.

 	  Quote: 	
		   >From my firewall bulkhead fitting to the side panel is about 12". 

 This fitting is just out of view on the left of the pic. I would 

 use the same zip tie anchors but fasten them with SS rivets through 

 the firewall. 2 or 3 should do with zip ties also spaced between the anchors.


	


   Tie-straps and their companion stick-on/screw-on

   bases are problematic. Likelihood of finding stuff

   in your local hardware store suited to your task

   is low.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Then, instead of the side panel, I could use the 1/8" angle to 

support the anchors or clamps shown in the first 3 arrows in the 

pic. There would only be 3 or 4 inches between the anchors. After 

the upright angle I could go 8" to the bottom of the cover for the 

buss box, or follow the fat wire through the box itself, since 

there'd be room . The buss box cover will be fastened to the 

underside of the glare shield 2 or 3 inches behind the tank.  Then 

the bundle would go another 4" and drop into the instrument panel tray.



I had shied away from using the upper longeron as support, but now I 

think that may be a better route. Instead of going to the buss box, 

I could simply rivet angle clips every 3 or 4 inches along the 

longeron to the panel tray. I could use either zip tie bases riveted 

to these clips, or use Adel clamps.


	


   Adel (or MS21919DG series) clamps are almost NEVER a poor

   choice. All metallic fastening is also almost NEVER a poor

   choice. Any process involving plastics or stick-ums can

   be a good choice but stick with proven recipes for success

   for both ingredients and process.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH!    )

        ( Do your part to keep this marvelous  )

        ( tool sharp and available to all our  )

        ( brothers in the OBAM aviation        )

        ( community.                           )

         ---------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: Dan's Switches

At 10:44 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 > It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of 

 the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?

The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated 

only. Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the 

plastic could have been poked through.


	


    ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being

    compromised???



    You may have a crimper vs. terminal compatibility

    issue. The tool should NOT damage the terminal.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH!    )

        ( Do your part to keep this marvelous  )

        ( tool sharp and available to all our  )

        ( brothers in the OBAM aviation        )

        ( community.                           )

         ---------------------------------------

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Dan's Switches

Hi Guys



What's the chosen method of shrinking, 'heat-shrink' ?



Regards: John



---

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Dan's Switches

 	  Quote: 	
		  ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being 

compromised??? 	




The metal insulation closure when pinched down poked through the outer preinsulation. I thought I was getting a decent device when I bought the Crimpmaster. I found that terminals don't fit well in it, both in the direction of the wire and in the direction of the handle. I tried a few different adjustments and gave up. I have done almost all of my crimping with a GB cheapo I have and pull tested enough to know when it's good. 

Thanks for the link to the article, Bob. In it, however, there are a couple jpg links that were broken. 



And the pic in the article of the bond stud shows what looks like a nylon P clamp. They're okay to use?

_________________
Dan

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: Dan's Switches

At 03:41 PM 11/21/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>



Hi Guys



What's the chosen method of shrinking, 'heat-shrink' ?


	


   Heat  . . .



   Seriously, it depends on your situation. I've had $150 heat

   guns than put concentrated heat into tiny spaces. They're

   quite useful when working inside some piece of electronics.

   95% of the time, a $15 heat gun from Harbor Freight does the

   job. ANY heatgun can supply MORE heat than you need. Get

   used to the specific combination of shrink, situation and

   tools before you dive into finished work.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH!    )

        ( Do your part to keep this marvelous  )

        ( tool sharp and available to all our  )

        ( brothers in the OBAM aviation        )

        ( community.                           )

         ---------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: Dan's Switches

At 04:21 PM 11/21/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 > ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being

 > compromised???

The metal insulation closure when pinched down poked through the 

outer preinsulation. I thought I was getting a decent device when I 

bought the Crimpmaster. I found that terminals don't fit well in it, 

both in the direction of the wire and in the direction of the 

handle. I tried a few different adjustments and gave up. I have done 

almost all of my crimping with a GB cheapo I have and pull tested 

enough to know when it's good.


	


    Are you sure you have the right die-set

    for the Crimpmaster? As I recall, there's

    a suite of interchangeable dies offered

    for that tool.  I'd be interested in seeing

    what you have. I'll pay the postage back

    if you pay the postage to me. Send me some

    of the terminals you're using too.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks for the link to the article, Bob. In it, however, there are a 

couple jpg links that were broken.


	


    Yeah, I saw that but didn't have time to fix it then.

    I've got a major overhaul of the website in the works

    and hope to get the majority of bugs squashed then . . .



 	  Quote: 	
		  And the pic in the article of the bond stud shows what looks like a 

nylon P clamp. They're okay to use?


	


    That figure illustrates the idea and implementation of

    po-man's bond studs. Except for specifics pertaining to

    the procurement and installation of studs, anything else

    you see needs to be filtered through the cookbook for

    recipes for success. The parts shown here:



http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Lightening_Hole_Wiring.jpg



    are another illustration of technique and not a recommendation

    for parts/materials.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH!    )

        ( Do your part to keep this marvelous  )

        ( tool sharp and available to all our  )

        ( brothers in the OBAM aviation        )

        ( community.                           )

         ---------------------------------------

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