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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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 Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: EGTs are killing me |
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Oils.
Water cooled 2 stroke oil is classified as TCW3 which is an outboard rating. Outboards run with a constant supply of water ( coolant from 32 F to about 90 F ) Out Rotax operating temps for coolant are 140 to 180f approx.
aircooled oil works but I will say so does Skidoo oil or any oil that bears the API-TC classification.
http://www.cfisher.com/oildebate.html
Good reading here as well
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=46
Simple engines but some have to make them so tough.
Dave
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Ken Potter
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Lanark, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: Re: EGTs are killing me |
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Interesting discussion. I'll be breaking in my 582 and test flying in the spring. I was planning on using Shell 2 stroke snowmobile oil which is approved by Bombardier. It's available here in Canada at any Canadian Tire store. Any comments??
Cheers
Ken
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Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
99% Complete
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Lanark, Ontario |
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: Re: EGTs are killing me |
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Guys here use that Shell oil that is API TC rated to pre mix engines.
Rest use Bombardier XPS mineral oil
I have also used Castrol Super 2 stroke available at Walmart for about 4.50 a litre.
I think any of the 3 above will work. Castrol makes Bombardier oil.
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: EGTs are killing me |
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Bombardier recommends not using outboard motor oil. Apparently the air cooled oil can withstand the higher temps that the aviation engines endure.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Stokesberry
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:05 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: EGTs are killing me
Mark,
You say you are using 2-stroke oil for air cooled engines.
The 582 is water cooled - in your experience does it make any difference to
use the water cooled 2-stroke oil or the air cooled 2-stroke oil for the 582 engine ?
Cecil in North Idaho
Kitfox IV 1050 582 C box GSC prop
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Mark Napier (napierm) <napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Napier (napierm)" <napierm(at)cisco.com (napierm(at)cisco.com)>
Hey James,
I ran 200 hours on a 582 with the HACMan. It works pretty well. Be
advised that one way to lower your EGT's is by increasing the pitch of
the prop. Mine turned about 5800 static. Only problem I had with it
was the supplied barbs didn't hold the lines very well so I replaced
them with something a little better. Same with the plastic clamps.
Just use 2 turns of safety wire instead. To get a little more
adjustment range out of the HACMan I put in a "vacuum restrictor"
orifice (drilled out with a #40 drill bit) in the air sense line coming
from the air cleaner. If you do that then go up one size on your main
jets.
Also, the #55 idle jets that come with the carbs are too big. Replace
them with #45 and the engine will idle much better. Before I changed
mine out the motor would often quit on final approach and tended to foul
up on the ground. The iridium plugs help some too.
About avgas: I stuck my rings and had the engine sag on me during a
take-off run. It just plain quit taxing back. Fortunately I aborted
but 10 seconds later would have been over the trees with few options.
The inside of my engine looked like it was power coated white. Piston
tops, heads, exhaust system, all of them looked like they had just come
out of the paint shop and the cylinders were scratched. When I called
South Mississippi to describe the problem, he said "Let me guess, the
inside of your motor looks like it was painted white." This was at ~180
hours with mostly running car gas but getting avgas at stops cross
country flights. The oil was Pennsoil 2-stroke for air cooled engines.
Maybe the lead scavengers or other oils would do better, I can't say.
Now I can't buy car gas w/o alcohol but all things considered I would
rather replace my tanks than feed the engine on a steady diet of lead.
Charging system: The engine is only good for about 10 amps. For
instance, I could run the radio, strobes, intercom and still put a
couple of amps into the battery. However nav lights put me into the
red. Fortunately I almost never needed the nav lights! I used the
odyssey 625 battery with good results.
FWIW,
Mark Napier
Time: 06:00:34 PM PST US
Subject: EGTs are killing me
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)>
Somebody with a good working knowledge of the inside of a Bing 54 PLEASE
HELP ME.
Lets start at the beginning, as temps started to drop below about 55-60f
I
started having EGT trouble and I started reading up and doing some
adjustments.
The needle jet, jet needle, and up until yesterday the main jet were
stock.
I installed the HACman which comes with 180 main jets and I purchased
but did
not install the next size up of needle jets, 2.74 I think. I read that
going
up a needle jet size could cool off the mid RPMs but I wanted to work
with
the HACman before I made any more adjustments.
So today I had the HACman full rich for all but a couple minutes of the
flight
when I leaned it just to make sure it worked properly. Temp was 32f and
PA was
500'. Climbing at 62-6500 yielded 1125-1150 and cruise at 5800 was 1175
as
long as the prop was loaded, any decent and it headed for 1200. I went
to adjust
the needle and found that it was actually on the bottom ring, tho one
that
I am pretty sure is not supposed to be used for a setting so I actually
took
it back up to the third ring from the top just to see if it was a case
of too
far in the right direction is no better and nothing improved.
According to the
chart I have seen I should be running the 165 main jet with stock
needles at
all temperatures at this altitude but it is obviously not working.
Should I install the 2.74 needle jets? Might this fix the hi temps? I
have a
new prop on the way that is bigger and that should help a little but not
when
it is unloaded. What adjustments do needles make, is there a better
needle for
my situation? Where I am the temps often swing 25-30 degrees through
the day
and I cannot chase these EGTs.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
The ink is still drying on my new certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276401#276401
* AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
http:/r generous support!
ronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==============
| Quote: | | www.aeroelectric.com |
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: EGTs are killing me |
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The Decalin scavenger requires one thing to work… heat. Ie the heat given off in combustion. That is why it works very well at keeping the top end and plugs very clean however it does nothing to keep the lower end and main bearings free of plating. Their own web site, the last time I was there, only mentioned the top end for that exact reason.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:26 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: EGTs are killing me
At 03:01 PM 12/6/2009, you wrote:
What would worry me most is the possibility that lead is plating on your
main roller bearings. If you get a serious build up of lead there it could
cause a seizure... in flight! Additives the scavenge lead only work when
the fuel is burned so they will not protect your lower end. They should
however help keep your plugs from fouling.
I don't know if I'd worry too much about it. I've run nothing but 100LL through my 582 for 400 hours using Decalin scavenger and don't seem to be suffering for it.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting | Quote: | | www.aeroelectric.com |
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[quote][b]
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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